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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/rumor-roundup-feud-with-roy-fuels-speculation-duchene-could-be-on-his-way-out-of-colorado/

 

If RF is considering the trade market to bolster our front line I wonder if Matt Duchene might be a possible trade target? He seems to fit the Canes mold (young, fast, and intense). 

 

Are you thinking Duchene in a trade for Faulk? If so, who do you think realistically needs to add to make the deal "even"? I would think it would be Colorada at this point. 

 

Though, most of this speculation that he could be available is due to his calling out by Roy. My guess is that Duchene is less likely to move than Roy at this point.

Edited by MinJaBen

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Are you thinking Duchene in a trade for Faulk? If so, who do you think realistically needs to add to make the deal "even"? I would think it would be Colorada at this point. 

 

Though, most of this speculation that he could be available is due to his calling out by Roy. My guess is that Duchene is less likely to move than Roy at this point.

 

I specifically didn't contemplate details.  But I'd agree with you, if Faulk was involved I think the Avs would need to add something

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I specifically didn't contemplate details.  But I'd agree with you, if Faulk was involved I think the Avs would need to add something

 

As much as Rantanen? If that were possible, I'd do it.

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Now that we have a promising defense lets trade Faulk and start building it again. Not happening.

 

There we go!  I am still of the opinion that defense wins championships in most sports.  I think this also includes sports with goalies assume you have a somewhat competent net minder.  Well positioned skating dmen who have the ability to really use their stick can really help an average goalie out though.

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Now that we have a promising defense lets trade Faulk and start building it again. Not happening.

 

 

I definitely see where you're coming from, and i'd fully agree if i felt Faulk was the glue holding the defense together.  But from what i saw, the only things the Hurricanes missed while he was injured were his PPGs - and they're still missing those.  Not trying to be a hater, but i just don't see Faulk as anything more than a mediocre-defensively defenseman with a howitzer whose trade value is the highest it has ever been and probably will ever be.  If losing him could bring the Hurricanes an All-Star forward, i can live with a defensive core next year of Hanifin/Slavin/Pesce/Wiz/Hainsey/FA-plugin.

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We've got 2 very clear but very different perspectives on the concept of trading Faulk.  I say concept because the odds of it actually happen are close to nil.  But this is the type of discussion that makes these boards especially interesting to me.

 

p.s.  my thoughts mirror what realm posted above (although I doubt I could have summarized them as clearly and succinctly)

Edited by LakeLivin

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I definitely see where you're coming from, and i'd fully agree if i felt Faulk was the glue holding the defense together.  But from what i saw, the only things the Hurricanes missed while he was injured were his PPGs - and they're still missing those.  Not trying to be a hater, but i just don't see Faulk as anything more than a mediocre-defensively defenseman with a howitzer whose trade value is the highest it has ever been and probably will ever be.  If losing him could bring the Hurricanes an All-Star forward, i can live with a defensive core next year of Hanifin/Slavin/Pesce/Wiz/Hainsey/FA-plugin.

The million dollar question is what do RF and BP think of him. I think a bit more of him than it looks like you do, but I don't think he can walk on water (unless it was frozen, and he had on ice skates...you get the idea).

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I have always thought no one player is untouchable or should they be.  But Faulk has been an integral part of the rebuild. Is he perfect, far from it but he is one of our best over the course. Compounding that are some unanswered questions. Hainsey is on the last year of a deal so a decision will need to be made at the next trade deadline. Wiz hasn't skated with us at all and is a FA next year (see Hainsey)

 

Those counting on Flurry make the leap is far from uncertain. There are some Chex but again unknown. Jordan is probable not returning.

 

Slavin is the real deal but has to prove his worth over time. Pesce (see Slavin) and Murphy is still not shown what we expected.

 

I just don't see a Faulk trade as a way to improve the team. Yes we need top forwards but there are other ways to accomplish that.

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Ok, you put that in there just to see if we are reading all the way through, right? I mean, I love Rask and all, and he might be able to pull off a #1C eventually, but fast? You are probably the first person to ever call him that.

Good, that way you'll remember who did :lol: And for the record, I was hoping it would happen this year, after we moved Eric last summer. C'est la vie.

 

Rask's a 20-goal guy and the team's second-best scorer, and he did that playing hurt for much of the year, according to Forslund. He wins more than half his face-offs and goes to the net. The team's top scorer is on his line. How both of them haven't earned first-line shots next year is gonna have to be explained to me, especially on a team that has learned its lesson regarding overpaying "#1" centers. Wings are cheaper, and wings are what we need - not centers. Put an elite winger with Skinner and Rask and watch the opposing net fill up.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I have always thought no one player is untouchable or should they be.  But Faulk has been an integral part of the rebuild. Is he perfect, far from it but he is one of our best over the course. Compounding that are some unanswered questions. Hainsey is on the last year of a deal so a decision will need to be made at the next trade deadline. Wiz hasn't skated with us at all and is a FA next year (see Hainsey)

 

Those counting on Flurry make the leap is far from uncertain. There are some Chex but again unknown. Jordan is probable not returning.

 

Slavin is the real deal but has to prove his worth over time. Pesce (see Slavin) and Murphy is still not shown what we expected.

 

I just don't see a Faulk trade as a way to improve the team. Yes we need top forwards but there are other ways to accomplish that.

Well said, and every word is why it most likely doesn't happen. I believe we keep him and that, if any D are on the block, their names are Murphy and McKeown. I think Fleury gets a step closer next year (CLT) with looks when injuries permit, and that he too is - at this point - not going anywhere.

 

All of that being said: If a team with a legit top-three winger came calling and said Faulk gets it done, do you simply say no, OBX? Or do you think about it?

 

Duschene is a talent, but I have to agree that he alone wouldn't shake Faulk loose. (Although it'd be fun to watch Roy's head pop off every time Faulk leaves a guy alone in front.)

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Well said, and every word is why it most likely doesn't happen. I believe we keep him and that, if any D are on the block, their names are Murphy and McKeown. I think Fleury gets a step closer next year (CLT) with looks when injuries permit, and that he too is - at this point - not going anywhere.

 

All of that being said: If a team with a legit top-three winger came calling and said Faulk gets it done, do you simply say no, OBX? Or do you think about it?

 

Duschene is a talent, but I have to agree that he alone wouldn't shake Faulk loose. (Although it'd be fun to watch Roy's head pop off every time Faulk leaves a guy alone in front.)

 

In all honesty I don't see Murphy as having much trade value at this point.  Rather than give him up for some pucks I'd rather see us sign him to a 2-way contract, let him contribute to the Chex for a couple of years, and hope that he's a late developer.  Even if he never does, as long as he can contribute to the Chex I'm ok with that until we know for sure.  Sounds like McKeown has had a good year, but lets face it, he doesn't begin to bring back even a legitimate top 9 forward.  It's the "unproven" argument a couple of you made above.

 

That's the problem with Hockey Trades, isn't it? You've got to give to get, and giving is hard to do. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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I only see Faulk in play for a "haul", as it were.

 

Still, Coastal's point about R defense is a good one. Pesce would really have to step into that role, and even after that, filling the second pair Right D from that list? Maybe Wiz. Maybe McKeown eventually, but yeah, we would probably need to play someone on their off side. Even Fleury is a lefty. When we line up left/right, it is indeed even less likely to happen.

 

McKeown is, I think a bigger unknown at this point than Fleury, and almost certainly needs at least one AHL year, even if he is good NHL material, which is far from proven, and Murphy as the second pair RD? (shutters).

 

The left/right argument would probably argue more for the eventual trade of a guy like Fleury. The thing is, to get trade value for him, it would seem that he might have to get some NHL time under his belt. He is a big, smooth skating Dman, with lots of upside, but not sure how other GM's value him at this point, which is not a problem w Faulk. I would not trade Fleury for anything less than a bonefide very elite forward prospect, or better. But if that trade is there, it may be the more obvious deal.

 

Murphy? To me, we should trade him sooner than later if at all possible. He just seems to make the most blatantly bad turnovers, and has yet to unveil that supposedly elite offensive side. But as Lake points out, he may have little value.

 

If we are to go with D men on their natural side, then we will probably have to find our new forwards some other way, at least in the short run.

 

It would still be ideal if Francis could up our forward skill level without moving a prime dman and move a prime dman later if needed. I have mentioned that the defense at least next year for sure probably still needs Faulk, even without the L/R issue. He is the most All Star-ready if you will, as all of our rookies are still working to that, and Fleury/McKeown are probably not ready.

 

But we are going to need more forward skill even than we had w/ Eric and Versteeg here. Just have to figure out how to get it if and when we hold onto Faulk and Fleury.

Edited by remkin

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The list Rem refers to above got deleted (by me), but here is my post again.  Sorry for any confusion. 

 

Right Defensive Depth:

 

Faulk (assuming he's traded)

Pesce

Wiz

Murphy (assuming he's signed)

Carrick

McKeown

Edited by coastal_caniac

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If we are to go with D men on their natural side, then we will probably have to find our new forwards some other way, at least in the short run.

 

 

It seems that's BP's desire, he's mentioned it more than once.  Realizing guys can play their off sides, these are young, developing d-men and I can't see where playing their off side for long portions of the season is a good idea - going by Peters comments.

 

The fact the Canes are left-shot heavy isn't anything new in the league, and why there's more value in right shot d-men, particularly top-pairing ones.

 

IMO, it would leave a huge hole.  I like tangibles.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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All of that being said: If a team with a legit top-three winger came calling and said Faulk gets it done, do you simply say no, OBX? Or do you think about it?

 

 

You think about it. You think about it because you owe it to the team to think about it. In the words of Francis a trade has to make sense. But you have to weigh the pros and cons of any legitimate offer and evaluate it.  I don't see this scenario playing out, I would think we would have to initiate the trade talk and I don't see that happening.

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In all honesty I don't see Murphy as having much trade value at this point.  Rather than give him up for some pucks I'd rather see us sign him to a 2-way contract, let him contribute to the Chex for a couple of years, and hope that he's a late developer.  Even if he never does, as long as he can contribute to the Chex I'm ok with that until we know for sure.  Sounds like McKeown has had a good year, but lets face it, he doesn't begin to bring back even a legitimate top 9 forward.  It's the "unproven" argument a couple of you made above.

 

That's the problem with Hockey Trades, isn't it? You've got to give to get, and giving is hard to do. 

If I said anything suggesting either on their own (or both, together) would bring a top-sixer, that wasn't my intent. McKeown plus a first, maybe. But my point was that of all our D, these are the two we'd most likely let go at this stage.

 

Regardless, we don't need top sixers. We need two fast wingers with immediate top-three potential, IMO.

 

As for Murphy, if you look back far enough on these boards, you'll see that virtually from the day we acquired him, I've been speculating that he could/should be converted to forward, given his O upside and his history with Skinner in Kitchener. The other reason is that even when JR drafted him, it was clear he is too small to be an NHL D-man given how the game is now played. It looks like BP might agree and hasn't given up on that conversion just yet.

 

I also agree with you that giving up on a first rounder who has struggled b/c he (1) is undersized for a D-man in today's NHL, (2) is still only 23, and (3) has great offensive potential, might be premature. That, plus your point about his trade value at present, might well mean Murph, especially with Boychuk's departure, is our new project player. That said, I'm feeling a lot more confident about our current AHL coaching staff's ability to make him successful than I ever did in the prior regime's ability to bring out the best in Zach.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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You think about it. You think about it because you owe it to the team to think about it. In the words of Francis a trade has to make sense. But you have to weigh the pros and cons of any legitimate offer and evaluate it.  I don't see this scenario playing out, I would think we would have to initiate the trade talk and I don't see that happening.

You may be right, but I can imagine other teams calling us because we are viewed league-wide as heavy with young, talented D, much like Phoenix has been in recent years. And for two more reasons: We're surely not the only ones who noticed that Faulk wasn't particularly missed during his absence; and because (I believe) getting into the dance is now a priority for next year.

 

For better or worse, we're a year ahead of schedule. We got much closer than anyone anticipated this year - particularly in view of our slow start and despite the departure or three vets - that not taking that next step next year could do more psychic harm to our roster than another "close but no cigar" season would.

 

My hope is that RF is going to go for the O pieces we need to get there, particularly if they are presented on a platter.    

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Can you image what kind of situation we'd be in if even half of these things happened

Skinner 70+ point

Lindholm 50+

Rask 60+

Staal 60+

 

I don't feel like that's unreasonable, it's time specifically for Skinner to be on the #1 line and run with it like he stole it. 

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To me on Murphy it depends on his trade value. It is probably fairly low at the moment, but if he has any significant trade value, I would give up on him. There have been rumblings about fitness, and he plays pretty soft. He is two years older than Slavin and Pesce. While 23 is too early to stick a fork in him, and D men supposedly peak at 29, he is also not 20. He has put up some assists, and does have offensive potential, but given the strength of our defense, this is a guy who has to really really bring offense, and probably needs to be really good on the PP if not a PP specialist. We just don't need that.

 

Love the outside the box thinking of him at forward, but predict it won't work for several reasons.

 

But if we get a bag of pucks for him we're better off hoping he will improve enough for a decent trade. Hanifin, Faulk, Hainsey, Wiz, Pesce, Slavin. Barring injury (or trade), that is the D next year. Depending on Fleury and McKeown, who probably start in Charlotte, there may still be a small window for Murphy as the #7 guy, but really a trade would be better IMO.

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Can you image what kind of situation we'd be in if even half of these things happened

Skinner 70+ point

Lindholm 50+

Rask 60+

Staal 60+

 

I don't feel like that's unreasonable, it's time specifically for Skinner to be on the #1 line and run with it like he stole it. 

Exactly, legend. Now add in two top-three wingers who are mid-career (versus in career twilight, like E and V), and think of the forward line versatility that gives you.

 

Skins-Rask-New Wing

Nordy-Jordan-Nesty (or other New Wing - Nesty's injury may require fewer mins)

PDG-Lindholm-New Wing (or Nesty)

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Can you image what kind of situation we'd be in if even half of these things happened

Skinner 70+ point

Lindholm 50+

Rask 60+

Staal 60+

 

I don't feel like that's unreasonable, it's time specifically for Skinner to be on the #1 line and run with it like he stole it. 

 

I think Skinner can hit 70, but that would be the one I'd take the under on. He has to put up more assists. I do think has has been passing much better of late, and must have more primary assists than most.

 

Then imaging if Francis could find two more 50 point plus forwards...somehow...

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Interesting take.....but, as weak as Murphy is on the boards, and as much emphasis as BP puts on winning 50/50 puck battles I can't imagine any scenario where Ryan Murphy is a forward on this team.  Or anywhere really.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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