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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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So far the biggest disappointment to me has been the lack of scoring from Skinner and Lindholm. Thought this was gonna be their years. Not looking very promising that either will do any better than they did last season at this point. J. Staal absent from score sheet too. Thank god we have Faulk and E. Staal to put one in now and then. I hope this changes soon and they start racking up goals but right now its the same ol from the same ol.

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A lot of major pieces can be acquired with a 1st round pick....  Including a nice top 6 power forward.

 

As was mentioned several weeks ago, teams aren't looking to trade away their assets for draft picks three weeks into a season. 

 

 

  I can't talk sense into a lot of you. 

 

Feel free to quit trying.  ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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As was mentioned several weeks ago, teams aren't looking to trade away their assets for draft picks three weeks into a season. 

 

 

 

Feel free to quit trying.  ;)

 

Yeah, this.  I drool over the thought of getting an already-developed top 6 forward in exchange for that draft pick as well, but who's the dance partner?  RF pulled a major coup getting a 1st-liner (he may not be 1st line anywhere else, but he is here).and a solid bottom-6er in exchange for 2 defensemen who probably wouldn't have ever even seen the ice in Charlotte, much less Raleigh, and i'm sure he tried to make other such deals - but it takes two to tango.

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A lot of topics here.

It's too early to jump on Lack for 1 games here when there is plenty of NHL tape on him for the guys to look at. Worst case scenario is that he is a slightly overpaid backup.

It's too early to proclaim Ward as the next new old thing. He's been good so far this year, but there is plenty of NHL tape on him for the guys to look at.

EStaal is going to come down to whether he wants to stay in Raleigh or whether money is going to be the deciding factor. I think that is a simple either/or question and GMRF will deal with it when the time comes.

HCBP has accepted the fact of what JStaal really is and not what exGMJR and his adopted son EStaal wanted him to be.

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Bring them up, send them down

 

This is kind of strange.  I understand the need for an extra body on the road, at least that's what was said, but now that we are the farthest west on this trip, we don't have an extra body, at least on D we don't.

 

 

 

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Ah okay, I missed that, thanks. 

 

I don't really see the sense in it, to be honest.  Seems rather pricey to take one pressbox-warmer to Colorado and then fly him home and another guy out there to take his place in another pressbox.  Spreading out the frequent flyer miles, i suppose.

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I wonder if we are letting them get a taste of NHL life and letting the coaches get a look in practice. Otherwise why not just bring someone up and let them stay for a few games. I'm sure the call-up isn't complaining.

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I got a call from another sales rep today.  This one I actually talked hockey with and was impressed.  Props to whoever is doing the hiring because this woman knew her stuff.  As of right now the team is 2-4.  This might be the strongest team we have had down the middle in a very long time.  To be fair, Jordan Staal is playing with Nesty and Gerbe.  Not insult to these players but this isn't exactly a complimentary scoring forward.  It doesn't get much better for Eric either.

 

I think it's time to move Skinner to one of the top 2 lines and just ride it out and hope for the best.  I also think a lot of problems will be solved with 1 top 6 forward.  Yes, we are early into the season but I think that deals could still be out there for the right price and a 1st round draft pick can be appealing.  I guess this team has 1 of 2 choices:  Send Skinner to the top lines and hope for the best, acquire more talenet.  I'm not as worried about our D this season as I initially was.  I see the problem is being our forward talent or lack there of.  Thoughts?

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. . .

  I'm not as worried about our D this season as I initially was.  I see the problem is being our forward talent or lack there of.  Thoughts?

 

Yeah, mostly agree. I'd agree 100% if Wiz hadn't gone down.  I'm still not sure about Jordan and Murphy but at least in the big scheme of things our D issues seem to be more related to lack of experience.  Offense? Lack of talent.  And hopefully somewhere down the line we'll have Lack of the Vezina Trophy! (see what I did there?) :P

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Hahahhaahhaah. You knows that's really funny. McMahon used the same quote and it really cracked T and John up. That was a pretty funny moment. I'm not sure if others picked up on it but I assume you and I both did...

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BD 58, when you score 1 goal or less in 4 of 6, it sure looks like our anemic offense is picking up where it left off most of last year. We seem to have some capable offensive forwards, but rarely have more than a couple of them playing well in the same game. If a top 6 forward would make this a playoff team, maybe I could see parting with one of those first rounders. Since I'm skeptical that one more forward would turn the team around, I would be more inclined to hold onto the picks. Everyone on these boards knows the Canes could be near the top of the draft (I hope in the next month they prove otherwise), and LA has not exactly lit up the West yet either. I think it's too early to part with either of these picks until we have some feel for what they may be worth.

On a slightly off topic note, SD, you do know Smiling Bob is dead?

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On a slightly off topic note, SD, you do know Smiling Bob is dead?

 

Well, dadgum.  Really?  Bummer.

 

In that case, I vote for Richard Simmons as the next Canes Grind Out A Win Motivational Speaker avatar.

 

Make it so, SD.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Danimal, agree that Cam's rebound control has far exceeded any goalie we have used since Cam fist signed with the team. I have not seen enough of Lack to include him in that group, and hope he will come out strong when he gets more chances in net. It would be great to have a 1-2 punch in goal that we have not had since the Cup season. I'm still optimistic we can have that this year.

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I can't say I watched Lack at all before he got here, and if he has a rep for bad rebound control it would be interesting to see a reference, but I do think that one real NHL game is just too early to tell. Early on Cam was spitting out rebounds too. I think that rebound control is partly a "feel" thing that comes with gettting some starts.

 

Anyway, I think it would have been very hard for him to put up such good numbers last year if he were spitting rebounds out like a tennis ball machine. My guess is a bit of playing time and that would settle down.

 

Cam has been allowed to find his game and is playing very well. Now, in my opinion, can we get Lack going? This is not something Peters or other coaches I have seen really do. They like to ride their big horse. Especially if he is playing well and the team needs wins. But we have these road games back to back and 3 in 4. Lack should get one of these next two at least.

 

We do have a lack of depth of talent at the moment, both on D and on O. When I look at the wingers, I like what most of them bring, but really it has been an age old issue of too many third liners.

 

To me, as I've put before, if I'm Eric, oddly that would be the biggest thing in my decision to stay, not just money. If I'm a UFA, or at least have full say in where I'm traded, and I get a chance to join a good team with talented wingers who could use another top 6 center...that would jump start my careeer. So, if it's me, I'm saying not, "Show me the money". "But show me the Winger".

 

For those who have followed this team during Eric's tenure here, especially on this board, that has been a major point of contention just about forever. That was really why JR went out and got "The Russian who shall not be named". But as bad as that ended, it is worth noting that at first it worked. Just a few years ago, E was on a 1.1 ppg tear for the 48 game shortened season, which projects to 90 points over a full season.

 

Just for fun, last year 90 points would have ranked a player......#1. Jamie Benn led the NHL last year with 87 points.

 

This is why I'm so torn on E. Why he is such a difficult nut to crack. He is a very good player. But we have had so much losing with him in the middle of it all. It's also why as frustrated as I get, I keep coming back to this team being better w/ E on it, but ideally w/ a kinder to the team paycheck, no NTC, and maybe at some point vacating the C for an A.

 

And as tired and age old of a problem as it is, we really would just need to add a couple of really talented wingers. Look at the effect Versteeg is having. Versteeg is a very nifty, very nice player, but he is not elite. His career year is 54 points and he has only broken 50 twice. Yet he makes more happen than most of our current wingers.

Edited by remkin

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So it got me thinking, I keep saying (as to most here) that we are low on depth, really on both sides with Wiz out, but mainly up front.

 

Setting aside that J seems to have hands of stone when it comes to putting up points, but at least plays a good game in the d zone, and even to the point of why J and E are not both doing better, let's go man by man looking at our wingers.

 

I would argue that we do not have a single, legit first line winger at this point. This is a main thesis in taking some pressure off of the "it's all Staal's fault" argument. We do have 3 second liners, and lots of 3rd and 4th liners. In an ideal world if this team added one elite and one near All Star winger (2 total) it would push some down, some out, and change the entire game. But anyways who do we have?

 

Jeff Skinner: Phenominal talent, but has yet to re discover his scoring touch. Potential to put up elite first line numbers, but almost never slotted on the first line due to size, concussions, and meshability. A unique talent, but unconventional. Still, only 30 points last year, and on a 27point pace this year. Definitely has potential. But not there yet. Recent production rating (RPR): 3rd line.

 

Elias Lindholm: Also tons of potential. Played center before the NHL. 39 points last year, a 15% bump would be 45 points. Currently only one point in 6 games. I think has first line potential, but has not yet hit that. Recent production rating (RPR): 3rd line.

 

Chris Vertseeg: Clearly adds offense. Knows what to do and where to put the puck to get points. 50 point potential. Probably the best actual producer as of this minute, but a very nice second liner. Not a first liner. Not elite. RPR: 2nd line.

 

Nathan Gerbe: 28 points last year,  1 point this year, 31 points career year, 16 goals career year. Prototypical 3rd liner. PPR: 3-4th line.

 

Andrej Nestrasil: 18 points last year. zero points this year. Cast off on waivers by Detroit. Very nice possesion player, does a lot of little things. 18 points was in 41 games thus 30 point pace, expect improvement to say 35 points, but again, zero points thusfar. RPR: 3-4th.

 

Brock McGinn: 2 points in 3 games. Simply too soon to tell. I like this guy long term, but expecting much production this year is optimistic. Not good enough to make a team full of weak wingers out of camp. Lots of upside, but currently probably RPR: 3rd line.

 

Chris Terry: long career AHL scorer. 20 points last year. 1 point this year. Makes some nice plays, but NHL RPR: 3rd line at best.

 

Brad Malone: 15 points last year. 2 points this year. RPR: 4th line.

 

Joakim Nordsrom: 6 points in 57 NHL games. Zero points this year. RPR: 4th line.

 

 

So, Lindholm and Versteeg are decent NHL second line wingers. Skinner could be a first liner, but hasn't yet, and atypical for first line as coach after coach tries to get him away from top d pairings. After that, no one currently has much business being higher than 3rd line.

 

No wonder we keep trying Eric at wing...

 

So to me the question is this:

 

Are we better off w Eric resigned, and then draft, trade and UFA like crazy to find two more wingers? or

Trade E for a second line winger and a first round pick, and try to find one elite winger and a first line center?

Edited by remkin

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Hahahhaahhaah. You knows that's really funny. McMahon used the same quote and it really cracked T and John up. That was a pretty funny moment. I'm not sure if others picked up on it but I assume you and I both did...

 

Actually I didn't.hear McMahon say that.  I just looked at what I'd typed, saw "lack of. . . lack of. . ." and the Eddie part just seemed to naturally come next. I'd like to say "great minds . . ." but in my case I know better. :P

 

I was out of town for the Fla and 2nd Wings games and didn't see either.  If she said it during a different game I must have missed it because I usually DVR a game, start watching it 10 or 15 minutes later, and then fast forward through commercials and other breaks 30 seconds at a time.  I try really hard not to have to sit through any commercials when I watch tv these days.  The invention of the DVR is right up there with sliced bread, imo. :applaud:

Edited by LakeLivin

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On Smiling Bob, all I could find is missing and presumed dead in 2008 concerning an actor named John Larson. I found another article interviewing another actor as Smiling Bob in 2012.

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/existential-limbo-being-successful-commercial-actor-144007

I think it's still in the air if Bob is up or down.

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Staal has 5 GP and 4 points and is a +1.  He is at almost a 1 PPG production.  You also forgot to mention that Colorado did not score a single goal.  That is because a specific center was helping to shut down teams top 2 lines as well as a goalie standing on his head.  I can't talk sense into a lot of you.  All I know is that things are going to get worse if Eric leaves.  Things will also be worse if Cam leaves.  

 

I was criticized for the Lack contract and I clearly stated that we should have seen a sample size before throwing money at this guy.  Everyone told me I was wrong.  So far, this has not been a great signing and I know the season is still young.  We will see how Lack performs.....  I don't think Ward and Eric are the problem this year.  My question is:  What if the Canes went out and acquired another 1st or 2nd line forward with LAs first pick this season?  Could that be what it will take?  I am starting to think that could put this team into playoff contention...  It's obvious it's the supporting cast of forwards that are not getting the job done due to being way over slotted.

 

5 games played .  1 game had a significant impact on ppg . Break out that 10 year 10 mil per year NTC contract ! Let's keep throwing money at our current levels of mediocrity.

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In this league speed and super skill create offense. All of our coaches thoughout history talk insessantly about dirty goals. Why? Because that's what you do if you can't get any goals.

 

You need dirty goals. But they need to go on top of clean goals.

 

You need game breakers up front. Carter, Kopitar, Toffoli, Gabrorik. Guys w/ Skill and speed and even yes, size. But more than a couple.

 

The model for cup contenders: One absolute beast-stud dman, One very good dman, a top 1C, a solid two way 2c, at least 3 other high speed and skill offense-creating forwards, a very good goalie, and the right pieces to fill.

 

 

So we need to find wingers. Francis knows that. At least at some level we wanted Marner last year. We're going to need to find that guy this year. Frankly, they go at the top of the draft though. Getting Hanifin will benefit us in the long run. But in the short run we are too low on productive wingers.

 

Also, as nice as it is that Jordan shuts down the other guys, your second line center needs to be two way: see Brind'Amour our cup year: he had 70 points with 39 assists.

 

So basically we need at least 3 productive playmaking wingers and one two-way center, though Rask could be that, but then why pay Jordan? If we added that to E. we would be good.

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So I was going to make this part of my last post, but when I actually wrote down the numbers my jaw dropped. Eric Staal, may or may not be the right Captain for this team, but he is NOT the problem. The problem is lack of production from every other dang forward on the team. No one is helping him. At all.

 

But staying with the theme that frankly outside of Eric we have no one creating much (Rask maybe #2 there), and the cup year.

 

Winger Assists 05-06:

 

Stillman: 55

JWilly: 45

Whitney: 38

Cole: 29 (in 60 games)

 

Winger Assists last year:

 

Lindholm: 22

Gerbe: 18

Semin: 13

Skinner: 13

 

it's the same with goals, but assists also show creation of plays, of cleaner offense.

 

Points: I'll do parings of 1-4 wingers.

 

J Willy: 76

E Lindlholm: 39

 

Cory Stillman: 76

J Skinner: 31


Ray Whitney: 55

Nathan Gerbe: 28

 

Eric Cole 50

Jiri Tlusty: 23

 

Total points from top 4 wingers:

 

2005-06: 254

2014-15: 121

 

Delta: 133 points.

 

Then that team had Brindy: 70 points vs Jordan: 41 points* at second line center.

And Cullen 49 points vs Rask: 33 points at third line

 

Delta at 2/3 center: 45 points.

 

 

* prorated to Brindy's games played since J missed half the season.

 

 

So my contention is that the main problem is not E. Not the coach. It is that our attempts to draft and find top six wingers has been far too weak. Part of this is the turtling of Skinner's numbers, and the (still very early but not happening yet) inability of Lindholm to get to that level of a #5 pick.

 

This is exacerbated by Jordan simply not finding offense either. (Though, like E. if he had better wingers he might (he did in Pitsburgh for two years and two playoffs)).

 

Looking at the elite teams and most of them have supporting firepower. It does not all come from one player. Chicago and Tampa, last year's cup finalists are perfect examples of this.

 

The cliche that great players make those around them better just doesn't work when the players around them are way way over slotted. That and I am not saying Eric or Jordan are "great" players anyway. But Eric was pretty great when he's had wingers. As we know, the cup year in question Eric outscored all of the guys listed above, by 24 points to the next guy.  And, once more, he was on nearly that pace with Semin in the lockout year, when Semin was actually playing.

 

 

So, we have shorn up the defense of the future. When Fluery is ready, we are in good shape there. I say the easiest road to recovery is to keep E on the right deal. Then move heaven and Earth to find 4 wingers. Now that said, Lindholm and/or Skinner could be two of them IF they find their games. In that case we need two more.

 

It will be very difficult until then though. We will need Lindy and Skinner to find offense soon, or we wlll keep trying to win 0-0. Versteeg could be enough to scrape by if Lindholm and Skinner and Rask find it. But that's just to scrape in, and even that is fading fast.

Edited by remkin

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