Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
OBXer

2015/16 In-Season Talk

Recommended Posts

IMO until BP puts a winning product out on the ice, the verdict is still out on him as well.  If things do not go "well" this year he could be the next one that is shipped out.

 

 

Unless this team does some on the ice buffoonery that embarrasses this organization this year I'd like to think he's safe until the middle of year 3 at the absolute earliest. I think if RF's bought into BP's plan he's got to give him at least 3 years to show improvement with a roster that leaves even the fans saying it'll be a miracle if make the playoffs.

 

If the fans are saying it's gotta be a miracle why would you expect BP to be fired with this roster?

 

I think it would take losing the players or some negative personal conduct issue for Peters to get anything less than 3 full years.

 

I'm pretty sure Babcock said it would take 5 years to turn the Leafs around, and he only took the job after getting agreement from Shanahan that the organization was willing to be that patient.  GMRF is no fool; he knows it's a process that won't happen overnight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I have to think that Francis is very happy w/ what he has seen from Peters so far in many areas. Any improvment at all and his seat is secure. This year will be interesting since Jordan's leg is not broken, we don't have a flakey Rusian gliding around the ice,  the goalie play looks strong, and the team has had a year to gain confidence in the system and the coach.

 

True, when one lines up the teams it is hard to project us in. But part of that is how bad we've been. Seems obvious, but again, if we imagine the E Staal of the lockout, J Staal for a full year, Skinner back to lighting things up and steps up from Rask/Linholm, some nice playmaking from Versteeg, and some points from the blueline, and the potential goaltending we could get, Just imagining this team as much better is not hard to do.

 

Kind of a good position for the coach. Solid backing from ownership and the fans, more talent than people think and low expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I am saying is that until BP puts a winning product on the ice, the verdict is still out on whether he is a good coach or not.  Coaching is a lot like sales.  It's black and white.  Either you make the sale or you don't.  With coaching either you eventually win or you don't.  By winning I mean getting to the playoffs.

Edited by bluedevil58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you give Peters at least 3 years, considering what GMRF was left with, and the ongoing rebuild of how the Canes do business on and off the ice.

 

A lot of these hockey pundits are being paid by Canadian dollars, so it's understandable to an extent them being oblivious to the sunbelt teams, but come on, how hard is it to see the improvement in this team beyond the record from last year?

 

As Top mentioned, Boomer gets it, and I enjoy listening to his opinions on the Canes.  They are educated and fair. 

 

Just seems like this board and most of the folks I know who go to games and follow the team are seeing the same improvements and seem genuinely excited about where the team is headed.  It's been a while.

 

I can't look at the team on paper and have confidence we are playoff contenders, but I have hope we are going to be in the hunt down to the end.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Lake, coastal and Rem, BP gets his full contract term to show improvement, and I think we sign him for three more if he does.

 

I disagree with BDC that coaching is a lot like sales. While there is no doubt you need guys to buy in, that's where the similarity ends for me. In sales you can control the price and adapt it to your customer's volume over time, and even do a losing deal with a particular customer now to avoid them trying out a competitor, so you avoid losing them in the long run.

 

Coaching is more like herding cats, with 22 different personalities, several of whom are making more money in one year than you're likely to see in your lifetime. And all kinds of extenuating circumstances affecting team success which are completely beyond your control, from injuries to organizational depth.

 

Great coaches are rare for a reason - it takes not only the best qualities of sales, but also people management and assessment skills in spades, personal discipline, and long-term vision.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you disagree that coaching is not like sales and not black and white, name me one coach that was successful in the NHL and had a lasting head coach career that always lost and never got his team to the playoffs.

Some still view Peters as the guy who was unable to get a particular elite Russian forward to score and get motivated thus resulting in an expensive buyout.

Edited by bluedevil58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bluedevil, what folks are saying - jump in guys if I'm off base - is that GMRF and HCBP are connected at the hip, in terms of where they want the franchise to go. 

 

I'm hearing from this board that most recognize there's a timeline that doesn't favor HCBP turning things around in two years, and that he should be given the full term of his deal before being fully evaluated.

 

Also, you can't evaluate a second-year NHL head coach against coaching careers.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you disagree that coaching is not like sales and not black and white, name me one coach that was successful in the NHL and had a lasting head coach career that always lost and never got his team to the playoffs.

Some still view Peters as the guy who was unable to get a particular elite Russian forward to score and get motivated thus resulting in an expensive buyout.

 

If a coach always loses of course he'll eventually get fired. The question is timing.  I already pointed out that Babcock has stated that he thinks that it will take 5 years to turn the Leafs around (and Shanahan must have agreed or I couldn't see him hiring him).  Barry Trotz had a losing record and missed the playoffs each of his first five years with the Preds.  The franchise thought he was doing a good enough job to stay, and he took the Preds to the playoffs for four consecutive seasons after that.  

 

Obviously opinions vary, but mine is that Peters has the Canes headed in the right direction and that his job won't be in danger this year.

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Boomer is the only hockey talking head who has a clue what's really trending in the NHL.

 

Dear Scotty Laughlin: How's that whole "The Oil are sure to deal RNH" working out for ya?

 

I liked Laughlin on the Power Play with Espo.  Is Boomer a permanent fixture there now in that 5pm time slot?

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda changing the subject. Watching the Habs @ Leafs. Habs win 3-1. Semin had ONE shot on net, a +1. I believe he's playing on a line with Galchenyuk, who scored a goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda changing the subject. Watching the Habs @ Leafs. Habs win 3-1. Semin had ONE shot on net, a +1. I believe he's playing on a line with Galchenyuk, who scored a goal.

He's in mid season form .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you disagree that coaching is not like sales and not black and white, name me one coach that was successful in the NHL and had a lasting head coach career that always lost and never got his team to the playoffs.

Some still view Peters as the guy who was unable to get a particular elite Russian forward to score and get motivated thus resulting in an expensive buyout.

 

I agreed that there's a sales element, but (don't know if you read my whole comment, it WAS long!) coaching includes a whole lot of other qualities and demands, plus variables that no coach has control over.

 

Semin's the perfect example. It would be silly to blame BP for Semin's refusal to adapt to his system, especially with the evidence we already had that Semin quits playing before the ink has dried on every long-term deal he signs.

 

Plus, by your own standard, BP is already a winning coach. For that matter, so is Kirk Muller. Losing coaches don't even get a chance at this level. So maybe wins ultimately determine greatness, but plenty of good coaches achieve greatness at one organization but don't at another. Torts is maybe the best example, but how about Laviolette? Is he a "bad" coach, and gets a "black mark" just because Philly wouldn't play for him? Or is he a "great" coach, now that Nashville is? Same with Mo. No question he was great in leading us to the Final, but (like so many others) he struggled in Toronto and struggled again when he came back here - two organizations with problems going way deeper than anything a coach can control. Now he's rolling pretty well again in The Peg, where they've committed to winning - so is Mo "black" or "white" in your opinion?

 

Unless maybe you mean YOUR REACTION to a coach's performance with the team you're rooting for, I just don't see how the job is "black and white" at all. If you're saying YOU shut down after a team has failed to improve over x amount of time, and that you feel the responsibility for that lack of improvement rests entirely with the coach, then I can understand it being black and white in YOUR mind.

 

But I don't think any organization assesses a coach without also asking whether the players or organizational issues played a role in his effectiveness. I think RF has acknowledged that this org did a lousy job of stocking the cupboards with quality prospects, guys who can not merely play at the NHL level, but can compete and excel at this level. I think RF feels like he has the guy that can get the most out of every player, and who knows when to cut guys loose, and that he will get the full three years to establish the new culture that both men are working toward. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked Laughlin on the Power Play with Espo.  Is Boomer a permanent fixture there now in that 5pm time slot?

I don't know. I seem to remember there being a delay at the start of last season with Phil committing to the gig again, maybe the same is true this year, or maybe Phil has finally said he's done.

 

But yeah, Espo is great. I followed the Lightning on radio in the playoffs. He's their color guy, and you can hear him cussing under his breath whenever guys are out of position or dogging it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know. I seem to remember there being a delay at the start of last season with Phil committing to the gig again, maybe the same is true this year, or maybe Phil has finally said he's done.

 

But yeah, Espo is great. I followed the Lightning on radio in the playoffs. He's their color guy, and you can hear him cussing under his breath whenever guys are out of position or dogging it. 

 

They mess with the schedule at this time of year, and now have Toronto homers doing mornings.  We'll see.  It is hard to keep track because they put nothing on their web site about host and show changes, and you can't listen 24/7 to hear the announcements.  

 

Phil is great.  He's the real deal, and for the most part very fair.  His passion comes through, and even though they try to keep the language "G" rated, he can't help himself when he gets wound up and has been known to let off a few language bombs live.  My favorite part of Phil is when callers say "Why not just trade Staal for Toews"? or some lame-brained similar statement.  This lights off Phil and he goes into full GM mode and basically tells the caller what they are: stupid.

Edited by wxray1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On coaches I think there are three major areas of evaluation:

 

1. The record relative to expecations.

2. The eyeball test.

3. Relationship with the Boss.

 

In reverse order. Peters and Francis really do seem to be on the same page. Francis picked Peters ahead of personal friends and more obviosus canditates, because he so liked what he saw. They do seem in synce. PK? I don't know frankily, but I have to think he is behind Francis and Peters at this point.

 

The eyeball test is tough for us fans because most of it is behind the scenes. Do the players respect him? Is he tough but fair? Does he command the room? Does he have the X's and O's nailed? Is there buy-in? Do the guys play for him?, etc etc etc.

 

What I see and hear players and other insiders say, is that he is all of those things. At the Brindy lunch I was fortunate to attend he said something to the effect of, "You have to underestand, Bill is a brilliant hockey mind. He is just that much smarter than any player in the room and they all know it.". And the team almost never laid down last year. The guys play for him, and I think at this point they are bought in. I would also read between the lines that the benching and eventual cutting of Semin had to strenghten Peter's hand w/ the room.

 

The record cannot be viewed in a vacuum. If Chicago had our year with their talent it would be different. That's where, in year two, Peters  is almost bullet proof. While I, and at least publically, Francis, thinks this team has a shot, the vast majority opinion, as reflected not only in the media, but the Vegas odds, is that we will not just be bad, but dismal. I can't recall many times where our fans seem so resigned to that idea also. How many quotes from fans have I seen to the effect that they don't really care about this year because they can see the future building? Lots.

 

So on my three things, Peters has an iron lockdown on all three. It is only his second year also.

 

Short of some kind of catastrophic breakdown or massively inappropriate comment or behavior, he has to be a 8/10 in the safe department this year.

 

THAT SAID: I do see what BD is saying. There is a point where the team needs to start winning. Nashville's patience w/ Trotz, is more of an outlier. Just don' think we've hit that point nor will we this year.

 

For the first time in the history of my watching the Canes, the coach is far far safter than Eric Staal. If one has to go, there is no doubt who it would be.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On coaches I think there are three major areas of evaluation:

 

1. The record relative to expecations.

2. The eyeball test.

3. Relationship with the Boss.

 

In reverse order. Peters and Francis really do seem to be on the same page. Francis picked Peters ahead of personal friends and more obviosus canditates, because he so liked what he saw. They do seem in synce. PK? I don't know frankily, but I have to think he is behind Francis and Peters at this point.

 

The eyeball test is tough for us fans because most of it is behind the scenes. Do the players respect him? Is he tough but fair? Does he command the room? Does he have the X's and O's nailed? Is there buy-in? Do the guys play for him?, etc etc etc.

 

What I see and hear players and other insiders say, is that he is all of those things. At the Brindy lunch I was fortunate to attend he said something to the effect of, "You have to underestand, Bill is a brilliant hockey mind. He is just that much smarter than any player in the room and they all know it.". And the team almost never laid down last year. The guys play for him, and I think at this point they are bought in. I would also read between the lines that the benching and eventual cutting of Semin had to strenghten Peter's hand w/ the room.

 

The record cannot be viewed in a vacuum. If Chicago had our year with their talent it would be different. That's where, in year two, Peters  is almost bullet proof. While I, and at least publically, Francis, thinks this team has a shot, the vast majority opinion, as reflected not only in the media, but the Vegas odds, is that we will not just be bad, but dismal. I can't recall many times where our fans seem so resigned to that idea also. How many quotes from fans have I seen to the effect that they don't really care about this year because they can see the future building? Lots.

 

So on my three things, Peters has an iron lockdown on all three. It is only his second year also.

 

Short of some kind of catastrophic breakdown or massively inappropriate comment or behavior, he has to be a 8/10 in the safe department this year.

 

THAT SAID: I do see what BD is saying. There is a point where the team needs to start winning. Nashville's patience w/ Trotz, is more of an outlier. Just don' think we've hit that point nor will we this year.

 

For the first time in the history of my watching the Canes, the coach is far far safter than Eric Staal. If one has to go, there is no doubt who it would be.

Yeah, and today's lineup confirms that BP is throwing down the gauntlet. Eric's our #1 center. And if I'm right about BP's intentions, he will continue to be unless and until BP just doesn't think it's working. I like that we're challenging him right out of the gate.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of a non sequitur, but what the heck:

 

I clicked on a video of Lucic getting thrown out of the Kings - Sharks game last night and was surprised to hear John Forslund calling the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of a non sequitur, but what the heck:

 

I clicked on a video of Lucic getting thrown out of the Kings - Sharks game last night and was surprised to hear John Forslund calling the game. 

Forslund is one of the best, and in demand. And he's probably got FF miles like Clooney's character in Up In The Air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Forslund's voice sounds different on some those national broadcasts, so I jumped in mid game and not realizing at first it was him when the anouncer said that Quick "kicked it out with a purpose" and I'm thinking hey, that's Forslund's phrase. but John has to be in Nashville....then more Forsland'ism's before it hit me that he is indeed just traveling like crazy.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've caught Forslund doing quite a few NBC/NBCSN broadcasts over the past couple of years. I think they use him as part of the B team when there are non-Wednesday night games or if they are covering more than one game a night. He is obviously very good at what he does. For Caniacs' sake, I hope he doesn't get a permanent position with NBC, but I would definitely understand why if it does happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I really believe this team can make the playoffs this year, but I do expect to see solid improvement. This would mean (1)winning some games in October, (2)staying within hailing distance of a playoff spot for the majority of the season, and (3)seeing our team compete at a high level every game. If memory serves, in 05-06 the pre-season prediction of most media was that the Canes would finish around 29th, so I'm not writing the team off based on the NY/Chicago/Canada-centric media's perception of our team.

 

And we also have a second attainable goal to cheer for: that the Kings are a monumental flop. Even in their Stanley Cup winning years, they generally slipped into the playoffs, and last year, they played with fire one season too often. Maybe that vibe carries over and they fall on their faces. We can dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And we also have a second attainable goal to cheer for: that the Kings are a monumental flop. Even in their Stanley Cup winning years, they generally slipped into the playoffs, and last year, they played with fire one season too often. Maybe that vibe carries over and they fall on their faces. We can dream.

 

So agree with you here. They got off to a great start last night! (for us, I mean).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...