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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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I don't think we have been exposed to the high power teams yet. Look at what happened when we played the Caps. We got owned. We just don't have the forward depth to compete against NYR, Wash, and Pitt....

Caps scored 3 in 3rd, it was 1-1 i believe after 2... but they did  double our  shot output, so will give ya that..

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Interesting parallel discussions we had going on about fish and the fanbase.  What do they have in common?  Ignore them for awhile and things begin to stink...

 

Don Waddell's biggest decision as president was to 'up value' or 'right price' or whatever the term was for raising prices.  From what I recall at the time, they knew (duh!) this would impact attendance and the number of STHs but thought it was necessary to restore the brand's value (Waddell wanted the Canes pricing strategy to be less like Walmart, more like Nordstrom).  I have to believe, however, the hit is worse than they projected.  The Canes are currently dead last in the league in average attendance, which is a stat made even worse considering we've had less than a handful of home games so the average is a little distorted on the upside by the opening night sellout!

 

Attendance this year is way behind the two most often move rumored teams, Arizona and Florida, by about 1500.  If the Canes can only draw a little over 9000 for Friday and weekend games, when the workweek games start, what are we looking at?  8000?  7500?  Yikes!!!

 

The fans have been supporting a sub-par product for years.  Just two years ago, avg attendance was 15,483, ahead of 7 other teams.  At the current pace, Canes attendance will be around what top AHL teams draw which is clearly unsustainable.  Winning will help a whole lot, but I think their marketing, promotions, and pricing plans need to be redone as well. 

 

The fans have been fooled and ignored too much and, like the neglected fish, it stinks.

 

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Hmmm. Attendance is dropping. Coming off of a lockout that was timed really badly for this market: team bad before/team bad after. There is a base of general interest, but intensity of interest is at a low point. Many potential hockey fans found less expensive entertainment, and a bad team isn't drawing people back at current prices. So..

 

Plan: raise prices on everything.

 

I would think that a 5th grader could predict the outcome of that strategy.

 

Which makes me wonder: since I know we don't have 4th graders in charge, then....they must know what the result would be in doing that. But why would they want to be last in the league in attendance? I would wonder, if I didn't know better, if a person wanted to move a team, but needed cover for such a move, if being last in ticket sales might make such a move easier to explain? Maybe even asked for by the league?

 

Nah. I'm over thinking this. Both PK and Waddell have insisted this team is not moving.

 

But then, I do wonder if Atlanta did that a year or two before it's move...since that was Waddel's last job right before they moved....

 

Nah. Can't be.

Edited by remkin

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It does seem to make sense to wait until the team is on a little bit more of an upswing before significantly trying to re-value the cost of going to a game to the league norm.  This isn't Toronto.   Attendance levels this year should have been easy to predict. 

 

Again, some things had to change, like undercutting STH prices by dumping tickets on the secondary market.  Management has denied it, but the practice stopped after it was made an issue by STH'ers.  Raising the prices and reducing the games on mini-packs was intended to drive people into full time or 26 game plans.  I don't think that worked.  Tiered pricing on games for any STH at any level is wrong.  Jacking up the ticket prices on game week just makes people decide to stay home instead of saying "Hey, let's go to a hockey game".  If this continues over time, a relocation could occur, no matter what Waddell or PK say.  The league will expand though first, so we do have a window of time for the team to correct these matters.

 

I don't have a degree in marketing, but I got this.

Edited by super_dave_1

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while there are probably no numbers available look at the numbers in the chat room during the game or posts in the game day threads.  the decline seems noticeable.  wonder what is the percentage of the populace that would care if the Canes moved?

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while there are probably no numbers available look at the numbers in the chat room during the game or posts in the game day threads.  the decline seems noticeable.  wonder what is the percentage of the populace that would care if the Canes moved?

 

Attendance is just over 12,000 - i'd say that pretty much equals the number of people who would care if the team moved.  Given a population of ~2,000,000 in the triangle area, that's about 0.6%.  I won't even take into account the percentage of those who are Hurricanes fans and not transplant fans going to see their favorite team when it visits Raleigh...

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The Triangle area has college football and basketball,not too far from the beaches, concerts, and world class golf courses within an hour. There is a lot of competition for entertainment dollars. Putting an irrelevant hockey team on the ice year after year places the Canes pretty far down the list.Winning solves everything. If they win, the crowds will return.If this team does move, management will blame the fans for not supporting them, but no playoffs since 2009, and no light at the end of the tunnel, is not the fans fault. Give the fans a reason to come, and the seats will fill up.

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NHL hockey is a great sport and if the Canes had a year-in and year-out competitive team I believe the fans would return.  It makes little sense to sell a team that has not make the playoffs in some time with this year's  price increase. 

 

My memory has not been that since my stroke but I believe a "cheap seat" could be purchased for around $10.  This season the cheapest ticket is $30.

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NHL hockey is a great sport and if the Canes had a year-in and year-out competitive team I believe the fans would return.  It makes little sense to sell a team that has not make the playoffs in some time with this year's  price increase. 

 

My memory has not been that since my stroke but I believe a "cheap seat" could be purchased for around $10.  This season the cheapest ticket is $30.

It would also, for reasons super_dave has pointed out, make no sense to sell the team itself, other than because PK is looking to be less involved as he heads toward retirement. There are too many other franchise balls in the air for the league right now, plus there's the next expansion, both of which, I agree with dave, makes moving - at least for a couple years - unlikely. Yes, Quebec is an outside possibility, but I think the league wants the franchise fee and for the team there to be a new one, not a transplant.

 

I believe BP and RF are following a Chicago model of building though the draft, with the Detroit model of keeping the shelves constantly stocked as the ultimate goal. The question marks around league expansion will buy them time to make it work, and the huge number of picks we have should help fast-track the strategy. Time will tell. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I think the league would prefer to add two teams in the west, but QC has an expansion fee check for $500,000,000 (that's a lot of zeros) laying on the table just waiting to be picked up.  Moving the Canes to QC would let that check be torn up with the owners getting zip, zero, nada.

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Read that Ron Francis is open to talk about anyone in trades. Jeff Skinner and Ron Hainsey have come up in talks.

If you're referring to this, which is a report of a report in a Canadian newspaper, it's important to remember that RF has been listening to offers on everyone since the end of last season. The piece also mentions Liles and Nash.

 

With four guys under 25 on our NHL blueline, I think it's pretty hard to let Hainsey or Liles go for anything but another veteran blueliner. But why bring in a guy who has to learn a new system when you've got two who already know it? Nash is playing to the system and looking like a solid third and maybe eventual second-line center. Skinner has actually engaged in puck battles, hustled to get icing calls washed out, etc., and his line is right on the edge of breaking out.

 

My point: In Canada, where hockey fans want hockey news like American football fans want football news (i.e, constantly), you're going to see rehashes and "nothing" stories in print every day. My guess: Somebody in a Tim Horton's in Ottawa was telling his friend that Carolina is listening to offers on everybody - at the same moment a copy boy at the Ottawa Sun was getting donuts for the sports department. Voila, a story! And with Ottawa struggling (compared to the team that stormed into the playoffs last year), a story Sens fans will gobble up.

 

I seriously doubt anything happens with the current roster before Thanksgiving unless an absolute can't-refuse offer comes in, like a top-three forward and a first-rounder for Skins. And what team would give that up, a month into the season?

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I think the league would prefer to add two teams in the west, but QC has an expansion fee check for $500,000,000 (that's a lot of zeros) laying on the table just waiting to be picked up.  Moving the Canes to QC would let that check be torn up with the owners getting zip, zero, nada.

Preeeee-cisely. And using the truck in your avatar to get there!  :lol:

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So we also have our hands out for DoD schmooz. And I thought we did those things because it was the right thing to do.

Edited by winger52

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This team has not historically done well after long layoffs and come out flat.  I hope this 4 day break will buck that trend.

Me too, SD, and what gives me hope is the guy at the helm. I don't think BP will accept anything resembling "flat." If he sees it, I think there'll be a time out about two and a half minutes in, and a full-on a$$-chewing.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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So we also have our hands out for DoD schmooz. And I thought we did those things because it was the right thing to do.

do you have a link? Or just referring to Military Appreciation nights more generally?

Edited by top-shelf-1

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do you have a link? Or just referring to Military Appreciation nights more generally?

 

The only link I know about is still missing. i get Yahoo sports on my smarter than me phone. Puckdaddy article about U.S. Senators McCain and Flake released reports on DoD spending going to NFL,NHL,MLB, and MLS.

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here it is:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-teams-named-in--pay-for-patriotism--report-230530680.html

 

I hate to say this, but I'm absolutely unsurprised. Anything that comes off without a hitch over and over again despite a changing cast is rehearsed. And that means staged. If somebody is staging something before a guaranteed audience, money is changing hands.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Few trades are made this time of year anyways. It is really hard to think we get a worthwhile offer for Skinner until he starts scoring again. It does seem pretty clear that Francis is giving Staal and Ward until Thanksgiving, and really the team. Trading a vet defenseman prior to Thanksgiving would not be giving the team until Thanksgiving.

 

I think the only exception would be if things nose dive in this homestand. We are playing some very good teams. The next fout: super hot Dallas, Pittsburgh, Rangers on the road, Minnestota. If this team lets up a little they could go 0-4 potentially. If that happens, the Thansgiving date is a mere formality. I contend the worst we can do and not trigger some moves is 5-5, but those 5 losses better be well played losses. So going 0-4 or even 1-3 over the next 4, and you really have to start thinking about who's moving.

 

Short of that, I think they do get until Thanksgiving.

 

The problem from where I sit is that this team will have to put together a few winning streaks and limit the losing streaks to get back in.

 

Anything less than my proferred 6-3-1, and we will still have a lot of work to do. That means that Francis will have to bet on a team that is out of the playoffs, and that that team is a good bet to outplay the teams ahead of and around it. If the team goes .500 or less on this homestand, not only are we well out, but could not sustain .600 hockey even during the homestand, while the team would have to play substancially above .600 hockey the rest of the way just to hit the cut line.

 

I have no idea if Francis is using that type of number, but he should.

 

As painful and I mean utterly painful as it would be, 9 of the top ranked prospects next year are big forwards. Even if we don't win the Auston Matthews lottery, there are very needed forwards up there.

 

The other thing is that despite the potential on the paper, this team has underperformed that piece of paper for 2+ years, more if you expand the group. If they miss again this year...I mean at some point you have to make a change don't you?

 

Of course how that pertains to E and Ward depends a lot on what deal they'll sign. We just don't know that. We can speculate that E is holding out for too much, and Ward too, because they haven't signed, but we don't know that. Francis could be holding to a very low number until he sees what the next 10 games bring.

Edited by remkin

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This team has not historically done well after long layoffs and come out flat.  I hope this 4 day break will buck that trend.

 

As luck seems to have it, we are also playing a very good team tomorrow. If this team comes out flat....6-3-1 will become 6-2-1.

 

The schedule, while home games mostly, is starting out w/ 4 tough teams:

 

Based on goal differential, and (last 10 games)

 

#3 in NHL: Dallas (8-2)

#12 in NHL Pittsburgh (but is 8-2 over the last 10)

#14 Minnesota (6-2-2)

#2 in NHL: NYR (6-2-2)

 

I think we need to win 2 and at least one loser point on the other.

Edited by remkin

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So we also have our hands out for DoD schmooz. And I thought we did those things because it was the right thing to do.

 

 

here it is:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-teams-named-in--pay-for-patriotism--report-230530680.html

 

I hate to say this, but I'm absolutely unsurprised. Anything that comes off without a hitch over and over again despite a changing cast is rehearsed. And that means staged. If somebody is staging something before a guaranteed audience, money is changing hands.

 

Sounds like it's related to DoD recruiting (US Air Force in the Canes case), which is a different ballgame than anything "honoring the troops" imo.

 

It's reported that the Canes got $75k over 3 fiscal years (Bruins $280k over 2yrs, Wild $570k over 3 yrs).

 

Here's what the DoD supposedly paid for:

 

Carolina Hurricanes

• One 18 person suite for influencers and prospective applicants (FY2012, FY2013, FY2014)

• Pregame access to one conference room to give a one-hour presentation for center of influence opportunities (FY2012, FY 2013, FY2014)

• One Hurricanes autographed team stick (FY2012, FY2013, FY2014)

 

And here's what the Canes had to say about it:

 

"The items listed in that report, including a suite and the use of a conference room, were simply added value items for an advertising agreement with the Air Force. The key components that the $75,000 actually paid for were commercial spots, game-night sponsorships and in-arena signage," Carolina Hurricanes vice president of communications Mike Sundheim said in an email. "Our in-game recognition of military members, Military Appreciation Night and other programs designed to honor and support the large military population in North Carolina are sponsored by the team, its players and non-governmental corporate sponsors. This year, three of our players – Justin Faulk, James Wisniewski and John-Michael Liles – spent more than $60,000 to create a program that provides game-night experiences for military personnel and their families throughout the year. North Carolina is home to major bases for the Army, Marine Corps and the Air Force, all within driving distance of Raleigh. The tickets and things we do during games to showcase the military are reflections of our organization’s pride in the men and women who live in our home state and devote their lives to defending our country."

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