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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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As far as I'm concerned, the time for major changes is NOW!  I've been a voice of patience, but no longer. 

 

Group "Goodbye"

 

EStaal - thanks for your time here.  You have become part of the losing environment and need a change of scenery.

JStaal -  it didn't work.  Take your lovely fruit basket and move along (providing RF can make a deal...thanks again JR)

Ward - see EStaal

Hainsey - not making a difference here.

JML - see Hainsey

 

 

Group "We'd like to keep you, but we get it"

 

Versteeg -  losing sucks, and he has options.

 

 

Group "Why are you even here"

 

Terry - what is it exactly that you do?

Nash - see Terry

Jordan - thanks, but your locker belongs in the AHL

 

 

Group "Nice player. Not hurting the team but available"

 

Gerbe - He tries real hard and is cute when he bounces off of full size hockey players.

Malone - I like what he brings at his price point.  Team seems to play well with him in the lineup, which isn't often.

Nesty - I like his smile

Nordstrom - I had to put him somewhere.

 

 

Group "Well, some veterans have to play here"

 

Lack - Sorry, you're stuck

McClement - see Lack

Wiz - lucky you, you got hurt and get another year.

 

Group "The Future that must be saved from the misery"

 

Faulk - I hope we get the stink of losing away from you before you can't shake it.

Hanifin - see Faulk.

Murphy - finally starting to look the part

Pesce - look, a mid round hit!

Skinner - Don't think RF gets value unless Skinner turns it on.  Congrats, you're stuck here.

Rask - a good future as an NHLer.  Not a franchise player, but every team needs these guys.

Lindholm - a rough start this year, but has proven he belongs.

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Yeah, but the fans will complain bitterly about how wrongly made they are, and then try to start a fight with anyone who disagrees.

 

Well sometimes you just have to have the WIZ.  Cheese-steaks are as personal as your favorite Eastern Carolina BBQ

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In the Wild post game interview you could tell that Peters was really pi$$ed about that 2nd period let down (he excepted the 4th line). I have no doubt avoiding a repeat will be an area of focus going forward. Let's hope it gets addressed as successfully as our prior poor starts have been addressed over the last few games. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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As far as I'm concerned, the time for major changes is NOW!  I've been a voice of patience, but no longer. 

 

Group "Goodbye"

 

EStaal - thanks for your time here.  You have become part of the losing environment and need a change of scenery.

JStaal -  it didn't work.  Take your lovely fruit basket and move along (providing RF can make a deal...thanks again JR)

Ward - see EStaal

Hainsey - not making a difference here.

JML - see Hainsey

 

 

Group "We'd like to keep you, but we get it"

 

Versteeg -  losing sucks, and he has options.

 

 

Group "Why are you even here"

 

Terry - what is it exactly that you do?

Nash - see Terry

Jordan - thanks, but your locker belongs in the AHL

 

 

Group "Nice player. Not hurting the team but available"

 

Gerbe - He tries real hard and is cute when he bounces off of full size hockey players.

Malone - I like what he brings at his price point.  Team seems to play well with him in the lineup, which isn't often.

Nesty - I like his smile

Nordstrom - I had to put him somewhere.

 

 

Group "Well, some veterans have to play here"

 

Lack - Sorry, you're stuck

McClement - see Lack

Wiz - lucky you, you got hurt and get another year.

 

Group "The Future that must be saved from the misery"

 

Faulk - I hope we get the stink of losing away from you before you can't shake it.

Hanifin - see Faulk.

Murphy - finally starting to look the part

Pesce - look, a mid round hit!

Skinner - Don't think RF gets value unless Skinner turns it on.  Congrats, you're stuck here.

Rask - a good future as an NHLer.  Not a franchise player, but every team needs these guys.

Lindholm - a rough start this year, but has proven he belongs.

 

Really can't take issue with any of your groupings or analysis. Pretty much right on.

 

While I still think that Eric and Jordan can both be solid pieces, they are not the uber-stud, build the team around them guys that JR paid them and NTC'd them to be. As much as I'd like to fanatasize about Eric taking a big paycut, waiving the NTC and handing over the "C", it's probably not going to happen. I just hope he realizes it's time to move on and waives the NTC.

 

I think the case can be made that a move now is actually best for Eric's career too. If he gets with either a winner or at least gets paired with an elite winger, it will just increase his UFA price, or even lead to a new chapter on a winning team.

 

The other thing about the NTC is that he might allow a trade to a less than ideal team since he can make it just for this year if he doesn't like the new team.

 

While it might be tough to move Jordan, IF GMRF actualy moved every player in your Goodbye group, what a message that would send the fan base, and there would be return too. Could pick up 2 or 3 more first round picks or some nice players/prospects.

 

At this point, barring a stunning run of 5-1 or so, it really is the only thing left. Letting this same group repeat last year would be devastating. Francis knows this. I have to think change is in the wind after Thanksgiving.

Edited by remkin

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The Wild loss really hit a nerve. This was a game against one of the top NHL teams that we took to OT (and I'd say outplayed for a good portion of the contest), but we let it slip away instead of closing it out for a win.  

 

I find it interesting (in the true sense of the word, no judgement one way or another) that we seem to have taken this loss worse than if we'd gotten beaten soundly by a mediocre team (like the 4-1 loss to Florida).  I understand the factors that contribute to the extreme frustration. But, emotions aside, did anyone see anything positive in the Wild game?  Granted it wasn't  enough to make up for the eventual frustration.  But if we don't make a legitimate run (which seems highly likely), which would you guys find less painful, being clearly outplayed or being "competitive" but flawed to the point that we're not getting the wins?

 

Again, an honest question and no judgements here. I can see how from an emotional standpoint different people might feel differently.

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Well sometimes you just have to have the WIZ.  Cheese-steaks are as personal as your favorite Eastern Carolina BBQ

True dat. And (personally) Wiz is the worst thing that ever happened to cheese steaks. 

 

Further, as that rarest of transplants - one who's never missed the little fiefdom of Clarkie and Mr. (Nobody's) Snide-r, I'll just add:

 

It's gotta be Geno's. Not Pat's. Not Jim's.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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As far as I'm concerned, the time for major changes is NOW!  I've been a voice of patience, but no longer. 

 

Group "Goodbye"

 

EStaal - thanks for your time here.  You have become part of the losing environment and need a change of scenery.

JStaal -  it didn't work.  Take your lovely fruit basket and move along (providing RF can make a deal...thanks again JR)

Ward - see EStaal

Hainsey - not making a difference here.

JML - see Hainsey

 

 

Group "We'd like to keep you, but we get it"

 

Versteeg -  losing sucks, and he has options.

 

 

Group "Why are you even here"

 

Terry - what is it exactly that you do?

Nash - see Terry

Jordan - thanks, but your locker belongs in the AHL

 

 

Group "Nice player. Not hurting the team but available"

 

Gerbe - He tries real hard and is cute when he bounces off of full size hockey players.

Malone - I like what he brings at his price point.  Team seems to play well with him in the lineup, which isn't often.

Nesty - I like his smile

Nordstrom - I had to put him somewhere.

 

 

Group "Well, some veterans have to play here"

 

Lack - Sorry, you're stuck

McClement - see Lack

Wiz - lucky you, you got hurt and get another year.

 

Group "The Future that must be saved from the misery"

 

Faulk - I hope we get the stink of losing away from you before you can't shake it.

Hanifin - see Faulk.

Murphy - finally starting to look the part

Pesce - look, a mid round hit!

Skinner - Don't think RF gets value unless Skinner turns it on.  Congrats, you're stuck here.

Rask - a good future as an NHLer.  Not a franchise player, but every team needs these guys.

Lindholm - a rough start this year, but has proven he belongs.

Two points of disagreement, one major, one not: Ward is solid, and there's never been an indication that he's a source of team laxness. If the number's right, I think you keep him. And Nash could be a solid fourth line center and emergency third-liner for years to come after McClement hangs 'em up.

 

Otherwise, somebody bookmark this page. I think it's exactly where the org's going.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Hainsey's signing still baffles me...this was the guy who didn't amount to jack squat in Winnipeg...was in front of the cameras during the lockout saying how evil the owners were...and we go and sign him, only to watch him do nothing for us.

 

Ugh...another in the long list of late-term JR signings/trades (Gerbe and Sekera are the statistical outliers).

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The Wild loss really hit a nerve. This was a game against one of the top NHL teams that we took to OT (and I'd say outplayed for a good portion of the contest), but we let it slip away instead of closing it out for a win.  

 

I find it interesting (in the true sense of the word, no judgement one way or another) that we seem to have taken this loss worse than if we'd gotten beaten soundly by a mediocre team (like the 4-1 loss to Florida).  I understand the factors that contribute to the extreme frustration. But, emotions aside, did anyone see anything positive in the Wild game?  Granted it wasn't  enough to make up for the eventual frustration.  But if we don't make a legitimate run (which seems highly likely), which would you guys find less painful, being clearly outplayed or being "competitive" but flawed to the point that we're not getting the wins?

 

Again, an honest question and no judgements here. I can see how from an emotional standpoint different people might feel differently.

I don't think your question reflects the feelings that the Wild loss has produced, and the reasons why. Don't get me wrong, it's a good question, I just don't think it applies to the situation.

 

WE didn't take that game to OT. The Wild did, because we LET them. We got two goals and then quit playing hockey for 25 minutes. In the context of your question, the only way I see that as a flaw is as a character/leadership flaw, not a flaw of talent or ability. Being unable to put the game away in OT is not even an issue if the team plays the same three-zone game it has shown it is able to play, and did play in the first and third periods of that game.

 

I can accept it when a team loses because it is clearly outclassed. But the number of times just this season that this team has lost because it has taken a period - or just 11 seconds - off is unacceptable. I want a team that competes for 60 minutes.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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We haven't had that since Rod was wearing the "C"

Bingo.

 

People say Faulk isn't ready for the C and he probably isn't. But I'll tell you this: The simmering frustration that finally boiled over in his post-game interview Thursday - that's the level of anger and unwillingness to blithely say things like "we have to be better" that I want to see in my on-ice leaders.

 

This team, to a man, should be righteously pissed, and going home to the mansions they've bought with money that hasn't been earned should give them sleepless nights.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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The Wild loss really hit a nerve. This was a game against one of the top NHL teams that we took to OT (and I'd say outplayed for a good portion of the contest), but we let it slip away instead of closing it out for a win.  

 

I find it interesting (in the true sense of the word, no judgement one way or another) that we seem to have taken this loss worse than if we'd gotten beaten soundly by a mediocre team (like the 4-1 loss to Florida).  I understand the factors that contribute to the extreme frustration. But, emotions aside, did anyone see anything positive in the Wild game?  Granted it wasn't  enough to make up for the eventual frustration.  But if we don't make a legitimate run (which seems highly likely), which would you guys find less painful, being clearly outplayed or being "competitive" but flawed to the point that we're not getting the wins?

 

Again, an honest question and no judgements here. I can see how from an emotional standpoint different people might feel differently.

There definitely are pivitol wins and loses in general, but there are other factors at play as well IMHO.

 

One thing is expecations vs. outcome, and another his historical context.

 

I think this loss tripped off a few things.

 

Dashed Expectations: The way they came out in the first, created a reasonable expectation that this would be a much needed home win vs. a team in the Wild that chose to take the night off. When we responded to their offer to hand us the game by coming out and managing 2, count them 2, meaningless shots in the second, it became suddenly this team, in desperate need of a win that quite inexplicably laid down. This was a stunning turn of events for a team so in need of that win. Then, with a power play 4-3 chance, a pretty golden opportunity, hopes again raised, then dashed again.

 

History: There is a lot here. One vastly outshooting a team and still losing. Taking a period off. Major offensive forward potential on the roster not living up to it's ability and paycheck (goals by Faulk and a 4th liner, none of our main guns). But mainly just lots and lots of losing including our worst year in the post cup era last year where we were in effect out of it before it began. And this game tilted the odds even more to another year out of the running with the large majority of the season left to play.

 

Then one can factor in both an fairly empty building with the weird misinterpretation of the Wild's fans chanting Doooob as our fans booing, with the 2nd period lay-down and the life was just sapped right out of that arena. (And there was life there in the first period, a lot of it, considering the small crowd).

 

But I do think we either go on a serious run right now, starting tonight, (see GDT) or Francis will have to shake things up fairly soon. The fans cannot take more of this from this same group. At least try something else and begin to reveal more of an outline of the plan,especially up front, and it could help get through what could be another painful season.

Edited by remkin

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Found this on Canes Country.

 

Backs up the fact that Faulk, while a very good player, especially on the PP, is not elite yet IMHO. I think he can be, but his misses a really good partner. Add in that his +/- is near last in the league and there is room to get to Norris territory.

 

From CC:

 

1 — 5-on-5 point for Faulk this season. The Carolina alternate captain now has 10 points (six goals, four assists) on the season, but all six goals are on the power play, one assist came on a late-game goal with Carolina’s goalie pulled, and two others on three-on-three overtime assists. His lone 5-on-5 assist came on, ironically, Elias Lindholm’s lone goal of the season.

 

One 5 on 5 point.

Edited by remkin

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 i have a right to my opinion...blah, blah and blah

 

Sure, you have the right to your opinion, but... 

 

You don't have the right to question the fandom of members who live here, particularly those who have a monetary investment in the team year in-year out, just because they have become particularly frustrated with what they see as a team going nowhere.

 

This is the place people come to vent those frustrations. 

 

Be a little more sensitive to that the next time you call people out and there won't be a problem.

 

Now if you want to question my sanity for continuing as a STH, fire away.  :P

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Found this on Canes Country.

 

Backs up the fact that Faulk, while a very good player, especially on the PP, is not elite yet IMHO. I think he can be, but his misses a really good partner. Add in that his +/- is near last in the league and there is room to get to Norris territory.

 

1 — 5-on-5 point for Faulk this season. The Carolina alternate captain now has 10 points (six goals, four assists) on the season, but all six goals are on the power play, one assist came on a late-game goal with Carolina’s goalie pulled, and two others on three-on-three overtime assists. His lone 5-on-5 assist came on, ironically, Elias Lindholm’s lone goal of the season.

 

One 5 on 5 point.

Meh, I'm not as concerned with Faulk's offensive play/production as some. The fact that he brings something unseen here for years before his arrival - a heavy shot from the point - is enough for me, and if he never scores on anything but the PP I'm fine with that.

 

My bigger concern for him is his defensive lapses. He is minimizing them, and that's a good step, but he still throws in a clunker of a game now and then. That's understandable, he's still young, and has shown the ability to rise to occasions - which on this team is saying something.

 

The goal for the post-Thanksgiving rebuild, IMO, must be a true first-pairing D man, a natural, reliable right winger and an elite center. I just don't know whether what we have to offer can bring all those pieces back.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I like SD'd Groups.  A main problem is too many guys over slotted in their current role.  So I'd consider the following:

 

1. MUST get out from under contracts with Eric, Cam and JML.  IMO the Eric Staal era has failed and he is decreasing in value to us or trade partners, so he's the primary target to move out and free up $$$.  Cam has to take a large cut, or else sign a capable replacement at lower cost.  JML is worthless and highly paid, say goodbye.

2. Keep Jordan Staal, but in a role with lower expectations, say 3rd line center and PK duty.  Hainsey is a 5-6 defender, not 1-2.

3. Get some seasoned pros at reasonable cost to round out top 6 forwards using $$$ saved.  Seek guys in the $4-6MM range through trade or FA.

4. Get a solid veteran defender to mentor the young guys as backup plan to Wiz's return. Take time developing our future defense.

5. All remaining names compete for the few remaining bottom 6 spots as centered by J. Staal and McClement.

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I'm the one who said morgue, and more than once.  I stand by that.  I've been to enough games over many years here in Raleigh to know the difference between now and then.

 

Everyone else is welcome to their opinion. No offense taken, as we all see things differently.  This place is a testimony to that, so post away.

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There definitely are pivitol wins and loses in general, but there are other factors at play as well IMHO.

 

One thing is expecations vs. outcome, and another his historical context.

 

I think this loss tripped off a few things.

 

Dashed Expectations: The way they came out in the first, created a reasonable expectation that this would be a much needed home win vs. a team in the Wild that chose to take the night off. When we responded to their offer to hand us the game by coming out and managing 2, count them 2, meaningless shots in the second, it became suddenly this team, in desperate need of a win that quite inexplicably laid down. This was a stunning turn of events for a team so in need of that win. Then, with a power play 4-3 chance, a pretty golden opportunity, hopes again raised, then dashed again.

 

History: There is a lot here. One vastly outshooting a team and still losing. Taking a period off. Major offensive forward potential on the roster not living up to it's ability and paycheck (goals by Faulk and a 4th liner, none of our main guns). But mainly just lots and lots of losing including our worst year in the post cup era last year where we were in effect out of it before it began. And this game tilted the odds even more to another year out of the running with the large majority of the season left to play.

 

Then one can factor in both an fairly empty building with the weird misinterpretation of the Wild's fans chanting Doooob as our fans booing, with the 2nd period lay-down and the life was just sapped right out of that arena. (And there was life there in the first period, a lot of it, considering the small crowd).

 

But I do think we either go on a serious run right now, starting tonight, (see GDT) or Francis will have to shake things up fairly soon. The fans cannot take more of this from this same group. At least try something else and begin to reveal more of an outline of the plan,especially up front, and it could help get through what could be another painful season.

 

Oh, I understand why that loss elicited an almost visceral response (probably a bit less so for me because my DVR screwed up and I missed almost all of the 1st period). And like I said, I'm not being critical of anyone's response. 

 

I guess what I'm asking is how people view it from as rational a perspective as possible, trying to take as much emotion out of it as possible (maybe the day after is too soon to do that?).  Because, to me, that answer may be correlated with how much hope for the season you've got going forward. Because if you do still have hope going forward, don't you have to feel better about the Wild game than a Fla-type game? But I'm guessing that to some the Wild game was kind of a "last straw" at this point. Not to say that can't turn back around, but it's getting close to where it would require an "Ottawa-type" run. 

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Oh, I understand why that loss elicited an almost visceral response (probably a bit less so for me because my DVR screwed up and I missed almost all of the 1st period). And like I said, I'm not being critical of anyone's response. 

 

I guess what I'm asking is how people view it from as rational a perspective as possible, trying to take as much emotion out of it as possible (maybe the day after is too soon to do that?).  Because, to me, that answer may be correlated with how much hope for the season you've got going forward. Because if you do still have hope going forward, don't you have to feel better about the Wild game than a Fla-type game? But I'm guessing that to some the Wild game was kind of a "last straw" at this point. Not to say that can't turn back around, but it's getting close to where it would require an "Ottawa-type" run. 

 

I think part of it (at least for me) that hasn't been mentioned is the fact the team really did nothing to really improve our ability to put the puck in the net during the offseason, with a predictable outcome, as we are seeing play out now.

 

The other thing (speaking again only for myself) is the term that's been used for 2 years now by Canes management.  "Retooling".  I hate that. It brings up too many memories of the JR moves that got us in this mess to begin with.  It's like the organization isn't making a decision to move one way or the other.

 

Either get to the business of a full-on rebuild (now that we have the opportunity with expiring contracts), or "retool" the team with decent players, not the Terry's, M. Jordan's, etc, and attempt to sell the fans that this is a Redvolution or whatever.  What a crock.

 

We have 13 points, the same number of points we had at this time last year. We can look competitive at times, but we aren't where it counts.

 

Is this rational?

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Yeah, for me the Wild game has to be put in context. If we were 9-6-1 instead of the other way around, or if we had made the playoffs last year, this would just be one of those games. But when we have had so many of those games the last few years and needed this one and the Wild were offering it up to us, I do think it is a last straw kind of thing that we had it, and gave it back.

 

For me personally I think it isn't that emotional, and that's not necessarily a good thing. It's getting to resigned apathy really.

 

The names on the paper have, as a group, underperformed their potential for so long now, that expecting something different is increasingly delusional. The first period of Minnesota, allowed the dilusion to re-form briefly, which momentarily allowed false hope. The way they let it go abruptly snapped back to reality.

 

I am not without hope, because I'm a fan, and part of me is fan-atic, and on paper we have the talent to rip off 5 in a row. But the door is mostly closed and one or two more losses without a win streak and it will be closed. Maybe not entirely mathamatically, but practically, and especially for this group that has had so many chances to prove it can be better, yet failed to do so.

 

One more chance. This really is it, and it will take something fairly extraordinary, very immediate, and fairly unlikely. I still hope for it, but don't predict it.

Edited by remkin

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Now that Manwolf has admitted to the morgue comment (not picking on ya), I want to second that.  It's absolutely an awful atmosphere lately.  I guess you just have to be there to understand it, but it's bad. 

 

The people in the building right now aren't walk-ups, or people with freebies, or people that attend one game every 3 years - those folks are long gone.

 

The people that are in the building now are the true die-hards of the die-hard fans. 

 

Something has to give or the organization is going to lose even the die-hards of the die-hards.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Lower ticket, parking, and concession prices and I will start going again. I don't see this team lasting here another 3 years. Raising prices by 25% across the board and not doing anything in the off season to get excited about really.put a sour taste in my mouth about this organization. They are lucky I am even still posting on this boards.

6 years of the same old story. I along with others have had it. The bad thing is at this juncture I wouldn't be totally heart broken if this team relocated. I'm just tired of it.

Edited by bluedevil58

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The bad thing is at this juncture I wouldn't be totally heart broken if this team relocated.

The ONLY place I'd continue to follow this team if they relocated would be Vegas...otherwise, my allegiance would switch to Dallas

Edited by AWACSooner

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so i will let it go after this, what did you mean  by  ivory  tower?  BTW, my name is Jim,   i dont question your passion for the canes, Coastal..

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