2015/16 In-Season Talk

[dinz]

i dont see the team moving, i really dont, of course i have been wrong before..

[dinz]

Now that Manwolf has admitted to the morgue comment (not picking on ya), I want to second that.  It's absolutely an awful atmosphere lately.  I guess you just have to be there to understand it, but it's bad. 

 

The people in the building right now aren't walk-ups, or people with freebies, or people that attend one game every 3 years - those folks are long gone.

 

The people that are in the building now are the true die-hards of the die-hard fans. 

 

Something has to give or the organization is going to lose even the die-hards of the die-hards.

disagree,,, at least for one skinner moment..

[Manwolf]

The sentiment expressed by BD58 is exactly what I mean about the Waddell approach to fans, tickets, etc.

I don't know if lower prices, concessions, etc. is the exact answer. IMO the Canes can't afford to lose the fan base. They would be better off with a larger turnout and greater enthusiasm through promotions and yes take care of the STH. With success the expected ticket, parking, concession, etc price increases can occur.

Instead we have lower turnout and less energy building. The remaining die-hards know it and can't compensate for the lack of volume. As I speculated, even the players notice (see Eric Staal's comment about it AFTER I posted about the Dallas game).

[Manwolf]

Lake, you wisely seek thoughtful commentary after emotion settles. Here is mine, though others may disagree.

Eric and Jordan Staal are the two true NHL caliber players at forward and it shows almost every night. Unfortunately, it is not good enough for what is expected from them, but you can't deny they are the most capable out there. Rask is the closest to their NHL caliber and Versteeg has surprised me with his showing. For his limited role, McClement is the other true pro. That's it - 5 guys.

Of the remainder, most belong in Charlotte or out of hockey. Skinner never really learned how to play the position at this level and even Lindholm could use confidence built at the AHL level. Their development has stalled.

Nash is borderline NHL and a guy who is easily substitued for (so Charlotte shuttle and loss to waivers shouldn't be a worry). Everyone else can be replaced with guys that are out there or easily acquired. That is far too many of those types for an NHL roster. Terry belongs in Charlotte.

[OBXer]

Maybe we can agree that no matter where we come from or how far we travel to a game and how much money we choose to spend on games we are all Canes fans. There is no other reason to hang on this board.

 

I will give the team to Thanksgiving since that was the stated goal line before I let my real frustration or guarded optimism show..

[coastal_caniac]

so i will let it go after this, what did you mean  by  ivory  tower?  BTW, my name is Jim,   i dont question your passion for the canes, Coastal..

 

Simply that it's easy for you to call out the local fans when you don't live here and don't regularly attend the games. That's about it.  I'm here to tell you it's not easy going to games these days.  But hey, I'm here at the game now with renewed vigor.

 

I've already switched to cocktails (go figure) so I'll have one in your honor.   Mrs. Coastal is driving.

[dinz]

ha ok, well if i lived there, i would be going, have  a diet coke for me, but good that the better  half is driving.. Enjoy the game!

[top-shelf-1]

i dont see the team moving, i really dont, of course i have been wrong before..

Yeah, they are going nowhere, per Bettman's statement that OBXer put up earlier this week. The sooner people stop suggesting it just because we're cryin' in our beers at the moment, the better.

 

No Stanley Cup-winning team has ever moved, and only one finalist has (North Stars). And they were replaced.

Edited November 14, 2015 by top-shelf-1

[Red_Storm]

Lower ticket, parking, and concession prices and I will start going again. I don't see this team lasting here another 3 years. Raising prices by 25% across the board and not doing anything in the off season to get excited about really.put a sour taste in my mouth about this organization. They are lucky I am even still posting on this boards.

Surely we are the lucky ones, bluedevil   

 

I agree with 90% of yours and other posters on the Canes pricing strategy and general mess of things.  I dropped from a full season ticket holder to an 11 game plan.  We were just so tired of going to losing games and bad hockey, I can’t remember how many tickets we didn’t use last season or gave away because no one wanted to go, sad.  The price increase almost made us drop STHs altogether.  This season, I’m pleased with the 11 game decision, mainly because the Canes are 2-1 in the games I have attended so far and even with a half full arena, the atmosphere during and after a win is special.

 

Where I guess I differ from some fans here is I thought before the season the Canes had close to zero chance of making the playoffs, so I am not nearly feeling the angst, anger and ‘woe is me, the season is lost’ feeling of others.  It was lost before it started.  I thought, and still think, the team is capable of making a run to finish around .500 but that’s about it.  In the offseason, friends at work who were STHs or fans and wondering how much to invest in the season asked me what I thought:  I said, “Be prepared for a lot of losses.  Some bad hockey, but also some young talent that will be interesting to see develop.  This season is about the future, not the now.  No playoffs (again).”  Today, I’d echo Coach Denny Green and say, “They are who we thought they were.”  Miracles happen and I’ll still watch and go to the games and hope for the best, but do so with the reduced stress of no unrealistic expectations.

[dinz]

How many of the 15 games have the CANES BEEN BLOWN OUT IN? There is 67 games to go, call me  a dreamer, but  i believe in this team..  They never stop competing [for most part]

[colliefan]

the problem is the Canes are no longer playing in the Southleast division.  Baring a miracle there is no way they will get a playoff sport

[wxray1]

I figured it out!  We need a mechanic.

 

Somebody needs to find, disassemble and remove the Two Goal Governor that somebody surreptitiously installed on this team at the start of the season.

[Kyrule]

The other thing (speaking again only for myself) is the term that's been used for 2 years now by Canes management. "Retooling". I hate that. It brings up too many memories of the JR moves that got us in this mess to begin with. It's like the organization isn't making a decision to move one way or the other.

Either get to the business of a full-on rebuild (now that we have the opportunity with expiring contracts), or "retool" the team with decent players, not the Terry's, M. Jordan's, etc,

I was disappointed with the recent use of the term "retooling."

I was calling for a full rebuild two years ago, I just didn't see this core/team going anywhere and as I said back then I didn't want to end up in "no man's land" with a mix of very young players and highly paid vets. Right now we have a mix of very young players and some highly paid vets along with a few guys who belong in the AHL.

I realize management had their hands tied to some degree, but a true rebuild should have started a long time ago. We should have brought in some middle tier guys who play the game the right way and lead by example. Actual NHL professionals.

Since we didn't/couldn't start rebuilding earlier, I've also been saying that this is the season we had to get past in order to make real changes.

The opportunity is here, and the time is now (this season and the offseason) to really start to change things/develop a new culture. PLEASE take advantage of it and don't sign players to try to keep butts in the seats, apparently they aren't there anyway.

This team needs an organizational shower to get the stink of losing/sameness off of it. We will still lose but at least we can call it by its proper name, a rebuild. We can form an identity as a hard working team and have them grow together.

I would rather see that than the same 82 game long re-run each year. I said the same thing a season or two ago, and guess what I'm still suffering through...

Next year's team should have a lot of new faces on it. If it doesn't, then management has failed and it would be doing the fans more of a disservice than telling them to be patient with a true rebuild.

.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Kyrule

[wxray1]

Kyrule: appreciate what you are saying, but how do you move all these guys with no movement clauses?  Edit: never mind, you recognized this with your "hands tied" comment.  

 

And how do you move the others who have underperformed so badly that nobody will want them?

 

JR really screwed this org.  Edit: and really tied their hands.

Edited November 15, 2015 by wxray1

[top-shelf-1]

Okay, I'm off the ledge. I called for letting the trades begin now. I was dumfounded that we let another 2-0 lead get away, but dealing now is senseless. Between now and the TD, maybe we catch lightning in a bottle. Or maybe we just begin playing 60 minutes. Either would get the job done, and with pieces like Steeger and E to give, maybe what comes back sets us up for a new beginning next year.

 

The important thing for me is the same as last year: Bill is figuring out who can take us forward in the long term under his system and who won't fit. In the short term, we're in for a world of hurt, but as long as we see incremental improvement, that's our proof that his system can work with the right players in place.

 

As for tonight, If Jordo nets that open netter we win. He didn't, and sometimes that's just hockey.

 

In Bill I trust.

Edited November 15, 2015 by top-shelf-1

[colliefan]

OK, now is the time for the Canes brain-trust to admit a rebuild is in order,  Sign both Cam and Eric to new, but significantly reduced deals.  If they want to stay during the process sign them, if not, trade them for the best deal.

[hopper915]

No more patchwork. Let's find a player that can LEAD this team. While I think someday Faulk could be that person, it is not in the near future that it will happen. For me, re-sign Cam, but not Eric. Trade him at the deadline, even if its for draft picks in the 1st and/or 2nd round. There are teams out there that will need to make moves to get their finances under next year's cap.

 

Ward, Faulk, Pesce, Hanifin, Rask, Lindholm, J. Staal are definite keepers. Versteeg if we could convince him to stay. Even though we signed Lack to an extension, which was an awesome thing to do. His contract would not preclude them from possibly trading him if another team was interested in him. I'd rather keep him, unless given an offer too good to pass up.

Skinner still has some value I'm sure. Others are kind of on the fence for me.

[winger52]

Well i went to the game tonight. Unfortunately the Evaporator came to the game too. By the way, do I still need to use the  ? I am truly amazed by the stick handling skill that Eric possesses. Whenever he has the puck on his stick and tries that juvenile shoulder juke I'm surprised that defenders don't fall to the ice laughing. He tried that tonight and failing to impress the Flyers proceeded to skate some more with the puck before losing it. And I can't remember the exact number of times he was waiting flatfooted  for a pass and just extended his reach in an attempt to get the puck. i suppose it's a good thing he is getting all those assist points or I might be upset about the 9+ mil we are spending. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by winger52

[Kyrule]

Kyrule: appreciate what you are saying, but how do you move all these guys with no movement clauses?  Edit: never mind, you recognized this with your "hands tied" comment.  

 

And how do you move the others who have underperformed so badly that nobody will want them?

 

JR really screwed this org.  Edit: and really tied their hands.

This is why I've always hated talking about "selling low" on players. If you don't think a player is going to rebound, perform up to his salary, or just isn't a good fit then you take what you can get and spend the money elsewhere as soon as possible. By waiting and having the trend continue, the hole just gets deeper. Yes it can be risky if you make the wrong move and a player excels, but then the risk runs both ways (as we are seeing).

Of course this is all easy for me to say as an armchair GM, and of course I realize there are a lot of unseen things/information we don't have access to so I'm just throwing out my opinion.

Having said that, my opinion is that we should have started moving guys along awhile ago and started a rebuild. I said that two years ago and I could have been proven absolutely wrong. In some aspects, I still could be.

As you (and I) said though, JR really screwed this team.

"We like our group."

I haven't liked our group for many years.

[winger52]

OK, now is the time for the Canes brain-trust to admit a rebuild is in order,  Sign both Cam and Eric to new, but significantly reduced deals.  If they want to stay during the process sign them, if not, trade them for the best deal.

 

 So if we resign them how much better will we be ? 

[OBXer]

This is a full on rebuild. We have been rebuilding since Francis took over. There are only two veteran  players left from the old teams. Only a couple more that were added  were here when Francis took over. We haven't given many contract extensions. We will see more changes before the end of the season and in the off-season.

 

The only ones using re-tool is us. When you listen to announcers around the league they always say the Hurricanes are tough to play against, the Hurricanes are a young team and most add and of course they are rebuilding.

 

A re-tool is changing a few of the players. Some of the vets are going and the young ones that don't pass the eye test will be right behind them. This is what a rebuild looks like and this is how the pain that goes along with it feels like.

[Kyrule]

This is a full on rebuild. We have been rebuilding since Francis took over. There are only two veteran players left from the old teams. Only a couple more that were added were here when Francis took over. We haven't given many contract extensions. We will see more changes before the end of the season and in the off-season.

The only ones using re-tool is us. When you listen to announcers around the league they always say the Hurricanes are tough to play against, the Hurricanes are a young team and most add and of course they are rebuilding.

A re-tool is changing a few of the players. Some of the vets are going and the young ones that don't pass the eye test will be right behind them. This is what a rebuild looks like and this is how the pain that goes along with it feels like.

I believe it was Francis (or Peters) that said we are "retooling", that's what I was referring to. I can't remember if I heard it from him directly or through Forslund. I do remember shaking my head when I heard it. We should have started rebuilding years ago but I had my say on that already.

.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Kyrule

[AWACSooner]

They never stop competing [for most part]

They sure as hell do, Dinz...it's called the 2nd and 3rd periods.

[dinz]

They sure as hell do, Dinz...it's called the 2nd and 3rd periods. Cant deny that, philly took it too them last 40 minutes..

[coastal_caniac]

It seems pointless to argue about "retool" vs. "rebuild", given the results we see on the ice.  The Canes are actually doing both, IMO.

 

The Canes intentions seem to be a rebuild of the on-ice product, but the team couldn't get to that that full-on status due to long-term contracts, NTC's, etc.  You can't pick around the edges and call it rebuilding.

 

The only thing to do this year was "retool" by shifting some deck chairs around with marginal talent at a low price - players who come cheap but have no long-term impact going forward.

 

It's still up in the air whether the team will be fully rebuilt, but we are only a few months out from finding out.

 

The front office has been rebuilt, no question about that.  The Checkers went in a different direction. 

 

Until the core of the team is replaced, we are in a retooling holding pattern. That seems to cause some angst among fans, and who can blame them, given we've seen that goat roping before, ad nauseum.

Edited November 15, 2015 by coastal_caniac