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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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I believe it was Francis (or Peters) that said we are "retooling", that's what I was referring to. I can't remember if I heard it from him directly or through Forslund. I do remember shaking my head when I heard it. We should have started rebuilding years ago but I had my say on that already.

.

 

It was Waddell that said team was retooling during an interview. I don't think I have read or heard Francis or Peters put labels on it but they might have. I suppose it is a little silly to get caught in the minutia over the difference between ones perception of retool vs. rebuild. For me a retool is to add a few players to make you a playoff team while a rebuild is to replace players over the rebuild process that will eventually make you a playoff team.

 

A rebuild doesn't always mean dumping every veteran or not shop for veterans to help your youth develop. The Edmonton way doesn't always work. It does mean deciding what your team should look like in 3 to 5 years, who should be part of it and yes replacing (sometimes over a period of years) most of the team that was there when you began the rebuild. You also need to draft wisely and trade with a purpose.

 

During the process you want to see improvement in both individual players and team play. I think we have seen some improvement but thus far you have to look really hard to find it. But we are only 2 seasons into the, what do we call it retool, a rebuild  or maybe just directional change.  Hey Joe there is a turn up ahead, want to hang a left?

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OK, now is the time for the Canes brain-trust to admit a rebuild is in order,  Sign both Cam and Eric to new, but significantly reduced deals.  If they want to stay during the process sign them, if not, trade them for the best deal.

Collie, it no longer matters if Eric "wants" to stay, because Eric is the face of not "wanting" to win--at least not badly enough to show up every night, for all three periods. That is the malady, more than any other one thing, that is afflicting this team, and banishing it begins with banishing the guy that led the team when the virus first showed up. 

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It seems pointless to argue about "retool" vs. "rebuild", given the results we see on the ice.  The Canes are actually doing both, IMO.

 

The Canes intentions seem to be a rebuild of the on-ice product, but the team couldn't get to that that full-on status due to long-term contracts, NTC's, etc.  You can't pick around the edges and call it rebuilding.

 

The only thing to do this year was "retool" by shifting some deck chairs around with marginal talent at a low price - players who come cheap but have no long-term impact going forward.

 

It's still up in the air whether the team will be fully rebuilt, but we are only a few months out from finding out.

 

The front office has been rebuilt, no question about that.  The Checkers went in a different direction. 

 

Until the core of the team is replaced, we are in a retooling holding pattern. That seems to cause some angst among fans, and who can blame them, given we've seen that goat roping before, ad nauseum.

Speaking purely for myself, coastal, what has made our performance thus far so frustrating is three things:

 

(1) We had a very good second half last year

(2) The moving of deck chairs we did was meant to let us, and should have let us, pick up where we left off, especially since

(3) We've been far healthier than at this time last year

 

Yeah, the Wiz loss hurt. But overall, we're not getting blown out. The keepers and D are giving us chances to win almost every night. We just can't put the puck in the net, and so many misses have felt like - dare I say it? - downright CHOKES.

 

We played our best hockey last year in what many believe to be the most competitive part of the season, but the more I see of us now, the more convinced I become that it was because we had nothing to lose, we played that way, and that the stretch drive isn't really the most competitive part of the season at all. THIS IS. THIS is the time when EVERY team has the most to lose, the six weeks from puck drop to Thanksgiving. 

 

That means simply this: This team can't perform under pressure, and these last two losses show it. It could change. But time's a-wastin'.

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No they are almost always dead center hits right in the chest area. :D

 

Looked like Jordan read this . Last night one on one with Mason, two to the chest area. Brought back nightmares of LaRose.

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This sucks, I thought Murphy was starting to really put it together.

 

+1

 

So MJordan in.  I'm in the minority that thinks he isn't completely useless out there, but all the same i'd still rather use this as an opportunity to see what Slavin - currently running .5 pts/game and a +6 on a team whose next-best is a +3 - can bring to the table in the NHL.

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It's funny what seemingly smallish things can cause the market to crash, or put the final nail in the coffin, but I wonder if the loss of Murphy might just be it. Plus to a concussion, imagine that. The recovery from that is variable, but especially for a smaller guy, it can take longer than the physical healing.

 

It's not that Murphy is great. It is that he was starting to be good. The team that went down it's best d man as Sekera left town, then lost his replacement a few seconds into the season when Wiz went down, is really going to have a tough time going on the kind of run needed now also losing Murphy. This presumably means Jordan draws in, and while passable, he is really an AHL dman. At this point one could make the argument that every defenseman on our team is overslotted now. Even Faulk, a respectable #2 at this point in his career, needs more than Hainsey to help him contend with the best forwards in the league.

 

As always, the future on the defense is readily seen, especially w/ Pesce arriving on the scene and pretty much winning a spot on the d of the future. In fact, if you want to get some optimism in the gloom check out Donwake's nice update of some of our prospects here:

 

http://fans.hurricanes.nhl.com/community/topic/23171-prospects-looking-good/

 

I think it will take 5-0 before T day for Francis to not be ready to trade Eric. As always, if we ever got all oars pulling at once over the majority of the game, it could happen, but it seems pretty unlikely.

 

Francis does not have to wait for the trade deadline though, especially w/ Eric. The return before Christmas can actually be better, as the receiving team has more time w/ the player they think might make the difference.

 

I don't know if E will waive the NTC, but he should (see my case for that below), and if he does, I think we are to a point that we should move him as soon as a decent deal materializes.

 

I'd move Skinner if he was putting up points. But we will get not get reasonable return for Skinner (or Lindholm). Further, Ward, while he has been hung out to dry earlier, just can't get that save percentage up. It is now below .900.

 

Versteeg, and Ward are classic trade deadline bait. Ward needs to get that save % up though. Hard to see him being worth trading until he does.

 

But the guy who might be trade-able before the deadline, like before the holiday trade freeze, is Eric Staal.

Edited by remkin

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Assuming we don't start a massive winning streak tomorrow, I think that in essence the time has come to at least for now part ways with Eric Staal. Technically, of course Francis waits until after the Thanksgiving break, but really I'm thinking the decision is clarifying in his mind right now.

 

I don't think that the debacle of the last few years is entirely Eric's fault, and this team will be immediately worse the minute he moves on, but this just isn't working. He has been through 4 different coaches now with the same result. He is the face of a team that has done nothing while he's been the face. We all know that sometimes the coach loses the room. It can be the best coach in the NHL, but at some point in the losing process the excuses, the "we just have to be better" lines, just have less and less effect until you are pushing on a string. That time has come for Captain Staal.

 

I do think that JR was unable to provide Eric with an elite winger and a complementary winger at the same time, since the cup year, with the notable exception of the brief run where Semin and Tlusty were exactly that. That was not Eric's fault. The two times he had decent wingers, Eric produced OVER a ppg.

 

But I think that is exactly why Eric should waive his NTC and allow a trade as soon as a decent one pops up. He doesn't have those wingers here. It is in HIS best interest to allow a trade, especially if his NTC allows him to be sure Francis finds him a decent fit. Eric is heading into his UFA year. But his last two years, combined with this year, are setting the value for him at the low end. If Francis can get him to a contender with an elite winger that needs a first line center, Eric's points will go way up, immediately ahead of his UFA year. Further, Eric can see something this year, that he and we haven't seen in a while: the playoffs.

 

If I'm Francis I'm trying to convince Eric that if he really really really wants to be in Raleigh, we can still make that happen. Let us get at least a first round pick, and a prospect for him now. He can go to a team with winger support, up his totals and maybe get some playoff hockey in, then come back as a UFA.

 

At this point, I'd sign Eric only if he was ready to take a deep discount, no NTC, and agree to give up the "C" at the end of the year. At this point I'm talking $6 million even, 4 years, no NTC, drop to "A" on the jersey. But really?

 

It is still best for all concerned to just at least move on for this season and offseason. For Eric, it would allow him to leave the "C" behind rather than have to be humiliated to give it up. It would allow us fans to see how bad off we are without him (we will be). It will allow some clearing of the air, some cleansing of the palate.

 

Then, if he really does want to come back and be part of the future, he still can. He can be given an "A", and he can play with all those first round draft picks, including the one he got us.

Edited by remkin

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How many of these gutless wonders stood up for Murphy after getting drilled with questionable hits two games in a row? ZERO! That is all I need to know about this group of individuals. I can put up with losing while rebuilding, but I won't tolerate half a$$ efforts, and not sticking together as a team. Gut check time,boys!

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+1

So MJordan in. I'm in the minority that thinks he isn't completely useless out there, but all the same i'd still rather use this as an opportunity to see what Slavin - currently running .5 pts/game and a +6 on a team whose next-best is a +3 - can bring to the table in the NHL.

Saw Slavin on Saturday checkers stadium very fun nice refurbished highly recommend going if you are Charlotte. However.

They lost 3-1 scoring a goal in he last 30 secs only. I was not encouraged It seems the "culture of not scoring and not winning "is what's trickling down.

Don't get me wrong they played hard and even stuck up for each other. When someone hit one of the checkers players In the head someone else went and hit him started and won the fight. I was so excited to see that. It's been a long time since he canes showed any kinda of heart. It's sad. i feel like after some of these games some players are just collecting paychecks they have no belief in their team or teammates and unless it's a good friend or brother they hardly stick up for each other. I used to be attached as a fan to some of these guys.

Now I just want them al gone if this the kind of no heart hockey we are paying to see right now. Don't get me wrong I know some of them are playing with heart and working hard but On this team I think they are the minority. Sorry to be so negative.

Edited by caryhurricanes

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What has Brad Malone done to continue to be in the press box?

 

He would be my vote for the one guy who would have stood up for Murph last night, even if it took a couple of shifts. Sadly, no one on the team did.  Not even a half-hearted scrum, like we are used to with this group of wall flowers.

 

I'd like to see Malone back in the lineup. 

 

He's on pace in points with Gerbe, Nash, McGinn, Terry, Lindholm, Hanifin, Liles, and Nesty with 10 games played and best in plus-minus, a useless stat on this team but I'm throwing it out there anyway.

 

Bugsy or bust.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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What has Brad Malone done to continue to be in the press box?

 

He would be my vote for the one guy who would have stood up for Murph last night, even if it took a couple of shifts. Sadly, no one on the team did.  Not even a half-hearted scrum, like we are used to with this group of wall flowers.

 

I'd like to see Malone back in the lineup. 

 

He's on pace in points with Gerbe, Nash, McGinn, Terry, Lindholm, Hanifin, Liles, and Nesty with 10 games played and best in plus-minus, a useless stat on this team but I'm throwing it out there anyway.

 

Bugsy or bust.

 

I wasn't listening really closely but in one of the pregame interviews Peters mentioned Malone and something about wanting to get more speed in there. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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With all the talk about a rebuild, with or without Eric or Cam, the elephant in the room is who we are rebuilding around. We have a number of solid D prospects, and 2 years out, that should be a strength. But what of our young forwards? Rask is probably exceeding expectations, but Skinner (3 goals, 4 points) and Lindholm ( 2 goals) are producing so little that I don't think we could get a 1st for either of them at this time. Aside from Versteeg, who is not a young player anyway, the pieces we have picked up from the scrap pile (Nestracil, Nordstrom) look like solid 4th liners and penalty killers. Neither has top 6 potential on a contending team in my opinion.

If we part with the Staals, where do we even begin to make a 1st line? Are we loaded with can't miss talent in juniors or overseas, because outside of McGinn, DiGiseupe and maybe the Smurf, I don't see a lot of NHL level talent in Charlotte, and the ones who are there look like complementary pieces, not "centerpiece" players we can build around for years to come. I know we are loaded with draft picks for this year, and could be adding more, but mostly these players are not going to impact the Hurricanes for 3 years after they are drafted. I just don't see players in the system that are going to bring us past our present cap of 2 goals per game any time soon.

On a separate note, did anyone else at the Philly game notice that Faulk was on the ice ready to begin the overtime, when he was called back to the bench and we played Pesce (with his 10 games of NHL experience) as our only D-man? Can't say it would have made a difference for sure, but when we lost the overtime in 15 seconds, I wonder if BP was questioning that decision.

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I've moved past the worrying and angst of replacing the Staal's, or anybody else.  Go for it.  Let the fans breathe again. 

 

Just do something to move away from this funky funk. 

 

Please.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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. . .

On a separate note, did anyone else at the Philly game notice that Faulk was on the ice ready to begin the overtime, when he was called back to the bench and we played Pesce (with his 10 games of NHL experience) as our only D-man? Can't say it would have made a difference for sure, but when we lost the overtime in 15 seconds, I wonder if BP was questioning that decision.

 

??

I'm almost positive that Faulk, Hainsey, and J Staal were on the ice when Philly scored.  At the time I  even went back on my DVR and checked because that lineup seemed so strange to me.

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??

I'm almost positive that Faulk, Hainsey, and J Staal were on the ice when Philly scored.  At the time I  even went back on my DVR and checked because that lineup seemed so strange to me.

It was definitely Faulk and Hainsey out there, like you I was curious about going with two defensemen.

I saw the Flyers broadcast (the team I get locally), and when showing replays of the overtime winner Keith Jones said "Faulk fell asleep for a moment in front of his own net."

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What has Brad Malone done to continue to be in the press box?

 

He would be my vote for the one guy who would have stood up for Murph last night, even if it took a couple of shifts. Sadly, no one on the team did.  Not even a half-hearted scrum, like we are used to with this group of wall flowers.

 

I'd like to see Malone back in the lineup. 

 

He's on pace in points with Gerbe, Nash, McGinn, Terry, Lindholm, Hanifin, Liles, and Nesty with 10 games played and best in plus-minus, a useless stat on this team but I'm throwing it out there anyway.

 

Bugsy or bust.

 

In my player evaluation manifesto, I touched on this.  The team seems to do well with Bugsy in the lineup, but he isn't there on a regular basis.

 

Stuck at home with a cold this weekend with no TV or internet.  Darn you CenturyLink.  Missed another Canes loss and all comments.

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Two points of disagreement, one major, one not: Ward is solid, and there's never been an indication that he's a source of team laxness. If the number's right, I think you keep him. And Nash could be a solid fourth line center and emergency third-liner for years to come after McClement hangs 'em up.

 

Otherwise, somebody bookmark this page. I think it's exactly where the org's going.

 

So, you don't this team could lose effectively without Ward and Nash?

 

I don't think Ward is the problem, but is he part of the solution?  I'm just ready for some fresh air.  On Nash, if we need to hang on to a 4th line center, then whatever.  I'm just not impressed when he gets higher than that.

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My bad. We definitely started the OT with Rask, E. Staal and Pesce. Since the winning goal came so quickly, I did not notice we had made a change. With our "top" 2 D out there, I would have expected a little bettter coverage than what I saw.

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So, you don't this team could lose effectively without Ward and Nash?

 

I don't think Ward is the problem, but is he part of the solution?  I'm just ready for some fresh air.  On Nash, if we need to hang on to a 4th line center, then whatever.  I'm just not impressed when he gets higher than that.

Heh. Point taken. But yeah, I think he can be an important bridge to the solution.

 

The importance of solid goalkeeping is difficult to overstate. We can't afford to sign him at the same rate or (god forbid) with an NTC. But I think if any Cane epitomizes a guy who has left it all out there over all these years in trying to do his particular job, has come back (repeatedly) from injury, has taken the initiative to adapt his game in the off-season, and has shown that he plays his best under pressure, Cam is that guy.

 

Also: Every young team needs that long-termer who has seen it all, not to mention a keeper they feel can pull out the big save when there's a breakdown. Cam has done that and can continue to be that guy for these next few years, while Lack's starts increase and his gradually decline, helping to ensure that at least one of three areas is stable. The forward corps going to be roiled by the changes that are coming; the D is growing into its game. Why create instability in net to boot, if you don't have to?

 

Right there with you on Nash. He's shown flashes at 3rd, and maybe could work there with consistently effective 1st and 2nd lines opening things up. But given the deals to be made, whether he remains depends on how strongly BP thinks he can fulfill a specific role, whatever it may be.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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How many of these gutless wonders stood up for Murphy after getting drilled with questionable hits two games in a row? ZERO! That is all I need to know about this group of individuals. I can put up with losing while rebuilding, but I won't tolerate half *edit* efforts, and not sticking together as a team. Gut check time,boys!

Well, one could argue that Liles' hit on White was the response. Have to think that if the league doesn't review White's hit, it's because they've decided (in their oh-so-1940s "ideal" of hockey) that justice was already done. NHL.com is reporting that White is out 2-4 weeks as a result, and they're teasing the story right next to the one about Murph's injury.

 

This league is so freakin' stone-age it's just ridiculous. Both Liles and White should be suspended, period. No questions asked. There should be zero tolerance for this kinda crap. It ends careers and perpetuates hockey's reputation for tolerating idiocy and encouraging vigilantism.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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