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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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I feel this season all comes down to what happens with Eric so fans can know what to expect for the future.

 

My hope is we finding a dance partner who is willing to swap Eric for another player who needs a scenery change whose also willing to stay.

If Eric goes for picks and prospects or just simply goes for nothing I have the worst feeling this rebuild could take 3+ more years.

 

I think UFA even with a pocket full of cash will be disappointing, I know I wouldn't want to come into this mess.

 

Those are valid observations. So much does depend of the E outcome. Unless we can pull off a "hockey" trade I'm not sure the return for E is going to be a proven veteran.  I'm thinking 2 to 3 more years on the rebuild is what we are looking at.  Of course we could keep E and rebuild around him. It still would take time.

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I think w/ E there are two decent outcomes and one awsome outcome possible.

 

Decent:

 

1. E agrees to better terms: $6 million, no NTC. This will allow us space to build around him and over time inflation will make that an ok deal. Further, if things don't work, he can be moved down the road.

 

2. E agrees to trade. We get a solid if underpeforming top 6 vet and a first round pick.

 

3. E and Francis agree to "rent" E out. We get at least a 1st round pick, and a loose agrement of the offer we'd make E to come back in UFA (something close to #1). Then we get a pick and maybe a piece, and still get to keep E at a reduced and better deal.

 

That last one is appealing not only because we get to eat and have our cake, but we would be able to assign a new captain and E would not lose face coming back as an A rather than C. If Francis could pull that off, E would get a shot at playoffs, a chance to up his numbers by playing w/ a decent winger or two, AND come back to the team that got a first rounder for him and play with all those first rounders.

 

Probably a deal for E involves us taking a bad salary back, but as long as it's only for this year it's a wash.

 

How sweet would #3 be?

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Rem, I think Option 3 would be great, except, when Eric gets to another team and starts playing with more skilled linemates, I'm not sure he would want to come back here.

 

As to the in-game experience, I must confess that for years bringing my kid to the games, I enjoyed the hokey games, the cowbell, etc. I think in a nontraditional hockey market, this helps sell thye game to families not raised on hockey (like mine). There really is no "in-game" entertainment when the game is on a break.

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Blue, true about Eric. But in that case at least we got some return.

 

On Ron the Ref. I have always wondered about that. He was removed and we were told that there would be big changes in the "in game experience". But what we got was mostly the same but without Ron. Sure there are more stats and we get some Mike Mat. analysis sporting his "just had a few at the Marriott bar businessman look", but I was really hoping for something more.

 

Anyone been to other arenas or minor league games where they do something else, more interesting? How about a marching band. That could be funny.

Edited by remkin

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I think w/ E there are two decent outcomes and one awsome outcome possible.

 

Decent:

 

1. E agrees to better terms: $6 million, no NTC. This will allow us space to build around him and over time inflation will make that an ok deal. Further, if things don't work, he can be moved down the road.

 

2. E agrees to trade. We get a solid if underpeforming top 6 vet and a first round pick.

 

3. E and Francis agree to "rent" E out. We get at least a 1st round pick, and a loose agrement of the offer we'd make E to come back in UFA (something close to #1). Then we get a pick and maybe a piece, and still get to keep E at a reduced and better deal.

 

That last one is appealing not only because we get to eat and have our cake, but we would be able to assign a new captain and E would not lose face coming back as an A rather than C. If Francis could pull that off, E would get a shot at playoffs, a chance to up his numbers by playing w/ a decent winger or two, AND come back to the team that got a first rounder for him and play with all those first rounders.

 

Probably a deal for E involves us taking a bad salary back, but as long as it's only for this year it's a wash.

 

How sweet would #3 be?

Rem, Id hope for option 2 and not look back.. 21 games thus far E has 4 goals and 8 assist.. That isnt 6 million pay grade in my opinion.. Then we have Victor Rask who has 6 goals and 7 assist..whats his pay scale.????... Just think its time for the players making big dollars to earn their pay.... Excuses have long washed out with most the fan base....

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Honestly?  Having been to 15/30 NHL venues (16 this Saturday, I'm flying back stateside to Florida tomorrow...knocking off Tampa), Ron the Ref was, hands-down, the best in-game promoter in the league.  I'm still scratching my head on why they let him go.

Ron the Ref has been working at one of the ticket entrances on the West side for a couple years now.

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Rem, Id hope for option 2 and not look back.. 21 games thus far E has 4 goals and 8 assist.. That isnt 6 million pay grade in my opinion.. Then we have Victor Rask who has 6 goals and 7 assist..whats his pay scale.????... Just think its time for the players making big dollars to earn their pay.... Excuses have long washed out with most the fan base....

 

Really don't disagree at this point. Just thinking both Staals could be nice pieces if they were cheaper and could be traded if it didn't work out and didn't have to be the leadership. I think hey, if Jordan were $3million/year with no NTC he'd be one heck of 2-3 center. I'm trying to imagine a rebuild where the Staals were 2-3 and we had a true #1 center. But that's probably not going to happen and J. is locked in, so that's definitely not going to happen.

 

Just that E. does do more heavy lifting than we give him credit for and it could get a bit ugly if Rask has to be the 1C night in and night out, or Jordan either for that matter, especially w/ the weak winger support we have...

 

Anyway, it simply cannot continue as is, and I don't think you sign E with a NTC, and he might insist on it, so whatever happens just don't get nothing for him.

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Ron works security.  He has been working as security at the RBC/PNC for years for other events while he was Ron the Ref.  He still continues to do that as far as I know.

 

Ron's a quality guy.  He has always been great to my kids, so I'm a little biased in my opinion.  Some fans were ready for a change.  Some complained about how loud he was, but that is more a function of the volume which is controlled by someone else.  Some complained about his voice.  Of all the problems the Canes had, I'm thinking Ron was the next one to blame after the hot dog vendor on the upper level.

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We could know something on the Staal/Ward sooner rather than later

 

Cam Ward and Eric Staal could move on from Hurricanes By: Lyle Richardson  The Hockey News

 

During Saturday’s ‘Hockey Night in Canada’ telecast, Damien Cox reported Staal and Ward expect to hear from GM Ron Francis at the end of this month if they’ll try to negotiate new contracts

 

.

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Ron works security.  He has been working as security at the RBC/PNC for years for other events while he was Ron the Ref.  He still continues to do that as far as I know.

 

Ron's a quality guy.  He has always been great to my kids, so I'm a little biased in my opinion.  Some fans were ready for a change.  Some complained about how loud he was, but that is more a function of the volume which is controlled by someone else.  Some complained about his voice.  Of all the problems the Canes had, I'm thinking Ron was the next one to blame after the hot dog vendor on the upper level.

 

Ron was LOUD and he articulated so you could understand him.  Most of the folks they've had since Ron are very mellow with the microphone making it hard to hear/understand all what of they're saying. 

 

I miss Ron the Ref, I miss the old goal song, I miss seeing Ric Flair on the jumbotron, I miss them playing "Let's Go Canes" at second intermission, I miss the Goodberry's vendor and....oh yeah, I MISS WINNING!!!

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Call me sour, but no. We paid the guy to do a job and he hasn't done it. Thanks for your service, no hard feelings, but see ya.

 

I definitely feel that way sometimes too. I just keep coming back to the rebuild. Does Francis see a way to do it in less than 3 more years? If you bring him back on a better deal, w/ no NTC I guess I'm thinking he could always be traded....

 

A clean break might be better in the long run though...

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Just that E. does do more heavy lifting than we give him credit for and it could get a bit ugly if Rask has to be the 1C night in and night out, or Jordan either for that matter, especially w/ the weak winger support we have...

 

Please elaborate. Exactly what "heavy lifting" has E done in the past four years, the most lucrative of his deal? And what has that heavy lifting done for this team?

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Please elaborate. Exactly what "heavy lifting" has E done in the past four years, the most lucrative of his deal? And what has that heavy lifting done for this team?

Lifting his check on payday.

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I'm far from an EStaal apologist, but he was made Captain halfway through the 2009-10, and was our leading scorer that season and every one since through the most-recently completed season, 2014-15, logging 459 points in 519 games - .88 pts/gm.  Does he take the rest of the team on his shoulders and lead them to constant victory?  Of course not.  He hasn't led them to the playoffs once.  But i'm also not ready to say he's done nothing but pick up his paycheck through all of those years.  Sure, his pts/gm have dropped the past couple seasons and into this one (and he isn't leading the team in scoring this year, either), but strangely enough (i didn't realize this until looking up these stats just now) he does currently lead the team in +/- (though that's more by default than any great defensive epiphanies on his part).  His defensive play has been better than the current leading scorer's has been, however...

 

All of that said, i'm in agreement that he isn't Captain material, and if he weren't the Captain, we perhaps wouldn't be having this conversation to start with.  Like many others, i'd love to see him start a new chapter in another sweater and allow the Hurricanes to start a new chapter with a new Captain and an additional 1st-round pick and prospect - but i'm not sure how do-able that really is.  Even though his production has dropped, everyone on this board knows that if he goes tomorrow, we can't just plug Chris Terry or Jay McClement into his slot and not miss a beat.  When he goes, things are going to be even uglier than they are now (and when Versteeg goes as well, fuhggedaboudit).

 

Put me in the club that would love to see Francis re-sign him at a reasonable salary with no NTC, as well as pass the torch on to a new Captain.  That way we retain our top-line center and leading scorer of the past 6 seasons but have the option to trade him for real merchandise if he falters.  Now as to who gets the C, i'm clueless.  Put me, also, in the club that doesn't think it's Faulk.

Edited by realmdrakkar

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We all get jaded on EStaal because of the team results.  I am ready to move on to a new chapter in Canes hockey, but realize that EStaal hasn't been a passenger all this time too.  Since the 09/10 season (all Canes early tee times), EStaal is 13th in the league in total points, 16th in goals, 10th in assists, and 33rd in games played.  Teams will come calling hard at the trade deadline and also at UFA negotiating time. 

 

Neat website to research this type of thing.

 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi

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If we resign Eric, how much better do we get ? This season is the " contract " year. Where players shine and push their stats in an effort to receive an even larger contract then the current contract. When will this push start for Eric ? Times up, put down your pens, collect your stuff and head for the door.

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It is nice to see Eric Staal get some recognition in previous posts. I have grown to appreciate Staal slugging away on teams that just don't have the supporting talent to make playoff runs.  If we trade Staal it will get ugly. At this point we have nobody in system that can replace him. Teams will come calling for E. On the right team I expect he will excel. Lets face it his biggest flaw is he hasn't led us back to the promised land.

 

I would be alright with us trying once again to build a team with E but honestly I'm ready to turn the page. It might be time to start a new chapter in the Canes saga.

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Bottom line for me: If we're serious about changing the culture of this team, we have to get the guy who has been the face of its serial failure out of the room. IMO, as long as he's around, that legacy is too. There are other $6 million dollar players with his talents in this league who don't bring that baggage with them, who are younger, and who will be glad to play in Raleigh. Let's move on.

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We all get jaded on EStaal because of the team results.  I am ready to move on to a new chapter in Canes hockey, but realize that EStaal hasn't been a passenger all this time too.  Since the 09/10 season (all Canes early tee times), EStaal is 13th in the league in total points, 16th in goals, 10th in assists, and 33rd in games played.  Teams will come calling hard at the trade deadline and also at UFA negotiating time. 

 

Neat website to research this type of thing.

 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi

Aggregate stats are all well and good, but they say nothing about current performance. Eric's 10th in the NHL in salary this year - and where is he this year in all those categories? If he were ever going to bring it, isn't this year, the year that he's up for renegotiation, the time?

 

Maybe I'm still "too Philly," but you alluded to it yourself, SuperDave: Roddy's tribute showed exactly what this team has lacked for too long, and I don't think keeping Eric in the room, even if we can, allows us to make the break we need to move forward.

 

The sooner RF makes clear that we're not resigning him, the longer the offers come in prior to the deadline, and the better they will get. Let's light this candle.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Used to post on here years back, but moved on. Been lurking, but now have to speak up and put my 2 cents in.

 

For those complaining about how bad this team sucks, are you willing to continue this way for years after EStaal is gone? Because that is exactly what is going to happen. We are not going to sign Kopitar or Stamkos. The high level free agents, are not going to sign here when there are better teams that are putting in offers. If EStaal goes and is not resigned, expect another 4-5 years of being in the bottom. Sure you can say, well we can build through the draft and get high picks, but that is a gamble. Those players don't always pan out, nor does having multiple #1 picks make your team that much better (see Edmonton).

 

I'm not a Staal apologist, but he has led the team in points EVERY year. And that is with teams putting their top defenders on him. This team has NOT had anyone else that is a threat, so all opposing teams have to do is defend EStaal, and you can pretty much win the game. Grant it, he took a fall back last year and again this year, but he was always good for 70 points. Where are those 70 points coming from. Not coming from Skinner, not coming from Lindholm, not Rask, so who? Is he worth $9M, of course not, but why blame him when it was JR who gave him that contract. If your boss offers you a raise that you know you aren't worth, are you going to turn it down, hell no. He is worth in the $6.5-7M category though. So if Francis can get him signed to that, I say you pretty much have to. 

 

This team will take a huge set back and quite frankly i'm not so sure this market can handle that. Top line centers are very hard to come by and this team does not have one that is ready for it in the near future. There is no one in Charlotte and Rask or Lindholm are not ready. And it's easier said then done saying we'll sign one in free agency. Remember, those players have to want to come here and they aren't coming here to be part of a rebuild. Yes, we can trade for one, but remember to get a 1C, you need to get. A team is not giving us their 1C or even 2C for our garbage. You better be prepared to give up a Hanifin.

 

I of course have always said it's not 1 guy that can get a team to the playoffs. And it's true. One guy can't do it on his own. Go back and look at all the AHL level players we have had on this team since 2009. Half the players on this team, if they don't get resigned by us, guess what they are forced into retirement or going over seas to play. That tells me that these players we have had, aren't good enough to play on a NHL team, yet we had them in our Top 9. Or playing D. But seriously go back and look at our rosters since 2009 and see where those players are now playing. You'll laugh. Towes doesn't even do it alone. He's got Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Hossa, helping him. Who in the frack did Staal have? Gleason? Tlusty? Letowski? Harrison? Semin?

 

I think Francis is headed in the right direction, but you still need some vet experience to go with the youth. This is why I say if you can resign Staal for a cheaper contract, for say 3 years, you do it. 

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I think I might start to echo the sentiments of Bluedevil58, in that our coaching staff should bare some of the blame for the team's shortcomings.  Last year, we saw apart of the special teams that i've never seen before.  We were a top ranked PK and a middle of the pack PP.  Now, with the same cast as last year, we're 5th last in the league in PK, and dead last in PP.  In addition, our offense has only got worse from last year.  We chalked last season's poor offensive output on injuries and a new system, but again with the same cast and general good health in our forwards, the offensive numbers have regressed.  The goal coming into this season was not necessarily make the playoffs, but show improvement over the previous season.  I'm not seeing improvements in anything, besides Victor Rask.

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Welcome back caniac 247 your post is very well thought out and I enjoyed reading your point of view.

 

This from Chip

 

Chip Alexander @ice_chip 7m7 minutes ago

Staal: "Hopefully they want me to stay here. If they want to go in a different direction, hey, that's life. I'll move on, go from there ..."

 

Staal: "I said that from Day One I've been in this organization my whole (career) and I like the steps we're taking."

 

Staal: "In the next little while we're going to have to make some decisions on what they want to do. And we'll go from there ..."

 

 

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