Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
OBXer

2015/16 In-Season Talk

Recommended Posts

I tell you this, if E can be had for $4.5 million? That's pretty good value. He may be a 50 point guy, but in the right situation I still think he could do more. Imagine renting him out, then getting him back for $4.5 million? Nice.

 

Yeah it would be nice but I'm not going to hold my breath (I'm sure you're not going to either). I think the guy who predicted that is way off. But what do I know? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems low to me, but not by a whole lot.  At least here.  Somebody will probably pay him to score 60-65 points, but my gut feeling is GMRF isn't one of them.

 

The organization needs to make hay in this draft, offensively.  The gap between the defensive and offensive pipeline is large.  There's a chance to do that, this year, in this draft.

 

I think that's going to play a big part in any decision on Staal and Ward.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given what we've seen from Slavin and Pesce (and Murphys recent play), if you're GMRF do you explore the possibility of trading Fleury for a similarly high rated forward prospect?  One that's a couple years closer to playing in the NHL than say another top 5 draft pick?  I'd think for sure McKeown might be bait, but I doubt he'd bring the return we need on the front line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given what we've seen from Slavin and Pesce (and Murphys recent play), if you're GMRF do you explore the possibility of trading Fleury for a similarly high rated forward prospect?  One that's a couple years closer to playing in the NHL than say another top 5 draft pick?  I'd think for sure McKeown might be bait, but I doubt he'd bring the return we need on the front line.

 

If not for the one-way deal to Jordan, I think Fluery could have made the team out of camp.  I was that impressed with him.  Interesting question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My prediction: when it's all said and done, Ward ends up back in Raleigh, E Staal doesn't.

 

That wouldn't surprise me at all Lake.  I'm coming around to the same thing - I've always thought Eric would be gone after this season.  Cam too, but we aren't stocked with goalie prospects at the moment, and Lack hasn't played enough for me to say one way or the other.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That wouldn't surprise me at all Lake.  I'm coming around to the same thing - I've always thought Eric would be gone after this season.  Cam too, but we aren't stocked with goalie prospects at the moment, and Lack hasn't played enough for me to say one way or the other.

 

Part of that hunch is based on non-ice issues.  My sense is that Ward is fairly humble while E is fairly proud.  If true, I'm guessing Ward might be open to a much deeper discount to the open market in order to keep his family in Raleigh. 

 

All of that is pure wild speculation on my part; I can't claim to actually know much about eithers true personality.      

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Cam gets a contract offer here he would be nothing short of nuts to not accept. Only 30 starting goalie gigs in the NHL and most are spoken for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If not for the one-way deal to Jordan, I think Fluery could have made the team out of camp.  I was that impressed with him.  Interesting question.

 

Odds of it happening seem really slim for some of the same reasons you don't often see top draft picks traded (how many GMs would be willing to risk the criticism they'd get if dealing a top prospect didn't pan out?)  But, from a needs perspective, what about a team like the Oil?  Their "imbalance" is heavily weighted towards top young forwards. All of  a sudden we seem like we might be the opposite. Doesn't it seem like both franchises might benefit if they could work out something equitable that evens out those imbalances? 

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see us trading Fleury right now, but isn't it nice to have d-depth?  We are going to have a talented and cheap blueline for a few years. 

 

Need to stoke that offensive pipeline with some skill.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Odds of it happening seem really slim for some of the same reasons you don't often see top draft picks traded (how many GMs would be willing to risk the criticism they'd get if dealing a top prospect didn't pan out?)  But, from a needs perspective, what about a team like the Oil?  Their "imbalance" is heavily weighted towards top young forwards. All of  a sudden we seem like we might be the opposite. Doesn't it seem like both franchises might benefit if they could work out something equitable that evens out those imbalances? 

 

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but bidn't we kind of do that with Ladd? We traded him to Chicago, where he won another Cup and now leads the Jets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but bidn't we kind of do that with Ladd? We traded him to Chicago, where he won another Cup and now leads the Jets.

 

I was actually referring to the picks themselves rather than the players selected. More from the perspective of the risk in trading high potential that hasn't had the chance to be realized.  So while the Ladd deal may be close to the concept, he was 23 at the time and Ruutuu was 25, both past the stage of "prospects". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was actually referring to the picks themselves rather than the players selected. More from the perspective of the risk in trading high potential that hasn't had the chance to be realized.  So while the Ladd deal may be close to the concept, he was 23 at the time and Ruutuu was 25, both past the stage of "prospects". 

It really depends. Boston dealt Kessel for what turned into Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. Personally, I wouldn't want to trade Fleury. It's gonna be crowded next year when Fleury goes pro. McKeown probably needs time in Charlotte. Can't help but wonder what 2 of our Dmen packaged together could haul in. We could definitely afford to give that up. Next question is what kind of forward we want. If EStaal doesn't resign, that probably means JStaal would be traded (hey JR), leaving us with Lindholm and Rask as our only top 6 centers. Maybe in five years that looks good, but in the mean time yikes. If we draft Matthews (don't bet on it) then we've got our future no.1 center and 3 good centers for the future, then we focus on wingers. A lot of the top forwards in the 2016 draft are wingers so I expect RF to get a haul of picks at the trade deadline and get a few good winger prospects. Assuming we don't get a no.1 center as a steal draft pick, we have to trade for one, no easy task.  I guess we'd have to focus on Edmonton (looking at Nugent-Hopkins or Draisaitl), maybe Reinhart from Buffalo, and I've heard Columbus wants to trade Ryan Johansen. All of these would cost a pretty penny but I think with draft picks and d prospects we could possibly afford one. And if they're starving for d prospects, maybe we can get a deal (Chiarelli did get robbed of seguin)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not saying we should trade Fleury. But you've got to give quality in order to get quality, and if we'd known then what we know now I've got to believe we might have drafted a forward with the 7th in 2014 rather than Fleury.  

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you have as many needs as the Canes have had in recent years, I think you have to draft the best player available when you are drafting that high.  When Fleury was taken, the D prospects was a slim looking bunch.  Since then, the defensive prospects look much better.  I can see where RF might try to make a trade with Fleury now with the other young dmen playing well.  I'm not advocating it as much as I am acknowledging a possibility.  If something like that were to occur, I would think the draft would be about the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, I thought E. Staal started pretty strong this season and he still looks fast and strong out there but he is on pace for 14goals. I still think we have a huge problem dealing E. with J. still around. We will have to get rid of J. asap if we possibly deal E. I just don't think he will want to stay here or be happy in any way in Raleigh on a last place team that his bro once captained and was traded away from. He left his first place Stanley cup winning Pens for one reason. to win a cup with his bro. Trade E. and you have a disgruntled J.

Hey JR, want to take J. and his 6mil 10yr contract back to Pittsburgh? He probably would do it, I can see that happening eventually. Than J. Staal can get back to scoring 20something goals a year surrounded by talent.

I truly think the Bros are gonna stay here long term and RF wants to build around them. but if and Only if E. takes a major pay cut. If he stays on pace and scores 14 goals this year than nobody is gonna pay more than 5 or 6mil a year for him at most.

Edited by danimal-ch1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As with so many trade ideas everything hinges on return. The idea of trading Fleury is not at all crazy. But you have to get a legit high end foward prospect and I always wonder how highly other GMs would value Fleury.

 

I do think the history of how we got the #2 and #1 defenseman in two sequential drafts is kind of interesting, but could also create a long term issue.

 

When we picked Fluery #7 is was a pretty obvious pick for both best player and team needs. The clear cut elite forwards stopped right ahead of us at #6 when Vancouver took Jake Virtanen. There was first stud dman Aaron Ekblad, then Reinhardt, Draisitl, Bennett, and Dal Colle were all obvious picks. By the time it got to us, the top 5 forwards were off the board. Th next trio was William Nylander (offense only, not big), Nikolaj Ehlers (high talent but slight and small), and Nick Ritchie (power forward, physical, good hands, but probably not elite). So not only did we need a defenseman, but Fleury was a guy with clear top pairing potential, which we hadn't drafted in recent memory. Clear choice.

 

But last year we went all-in on best player as we suddenly found ourselves with a near to or possibly generational D man still on the board at #5, and the two guys (with McEichel obviously gone) that we might have picked for need over best for: (Dylan Strome, and Mitch Marner) were gone. The next forwards to go (available to us if we wanted): Zacha, Meier, and Rantanen might all end up being very good, but none worth passing on Hanifin, who in a non McEichel year really could have gone #1 overall.

 

So both Fleury and Hanifin were smart picks on their face:  We a got really really good dman prospect one year, then by luck of the draw were actually able to upgrade on him the next year. But it does leave us with two future top pair D men and Faulk. They will all need to be paid at some point. Given the cap and internal budgets, paying 3 elite Dmen is generally not going to be an option long term. I think of Nashville who could not hold on to Weber and Suter, and ended up losing Suter to UFA with no return.

 

Enter Pesce, Murphy and probaly even Slavin, and maybe McKeown and we suddenly have future "solid to elite" D men out the wazoo. This is a great problem to have, but it surely looks like someone will be expendable.

 

Now personally I really would like to see all those guys togther hitting on all cylanders for a few years, and intellectually it's nice to think, "OK the defense is set, go build the offense." Still, the idea of moving a dman at some point for forward help really does make sense. But now? I mean if Toronto wants to give us Marner for Fleury sure, but obviously that isn't happening. If we trade Fleury for offense, it has to be for a 60 plus point type forward with lots of years ahead of him. But who trades those guys? Posssible, but unlikely.

 

I wonder if Murphy hadn't been concussed and had put up a few more points, if he'd have value...

 

Anyway, it is not a crazy idea, but it just seems that Fleury's value will be higher after he gets some NHL games in, and the caliber of forward prospect we would need to make the deal is unlikely to be available.

 

Lastly, I agree w Coastal. Fleury has all of the physical gifts. He just isn't a preternatural prodigy at seeing the game the way Hanifin is, and even Hanifin is very uneven as an 18 yo in the NHL. Hanifin is a freak, which creates and unfair expectation for a 19 yo Fleury, but Fleury is going to be very very good as he learns the NHL game.

 

As sacrelligious as it might sound, in a few years the guy we might trade could be Faulk. If the contact lines up right, he could bring back a serious forward. Our defense could be Hanifin/Fleury/Pesce/Slavin/Murphy/McKeown. And then a big time forward for Faulk rounds it out. Nice having primo prospects.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think only change to 2014 draft would be taking Larkin over Fleury. Seems only Detroit knew how good he would be. Hard to say at this point if we even trade any of the big 3. Definitely gotta give hanifin and fleury a couple years to really see what w behave with them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I think our best strategy if we pick mid round is to follow the Detroit scouts around and spy on them. I've followed the last few drafts pretty close and Larkin was not in the top third of the vast majority of rankings and mock drafts and 6 teams after us at #7 took more forwards and passed on him.

 

He wasn't out of left field but clearly should have gone before he did at #15 in a re-draft.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, I thought E. Staal started pretty strong this season and he still looks fast and strong out there but he is on pace for 14goals. I still think we have a huge problem dealing E. with J. still around. We will have to get rid of J. asap if we possibly deal E. I just don't think he will want to stay here or be happy in any way in Raleigh on a last place team that his bro once captained and was traded away from. He left his first place Stanley cup winning Pens for one reason. to win a cup with his bro. Trade E. and you have a disgruntled J.

Hey JR, want to take J. and his 6mil 10yr contract back to Pittsburgh? 

I've run hot and cold on this, but since seeing Jordan's quote about him and E not being the Sedins and having separate lives and careers, I'm feeling better about keeping Jordan. There is no question that he is a steady 2-center who can hold the slot and is very good on the back end.

 

I think Rask can be our #1; don't look now, but Victor is on a 50-point pace on a scoring-challenged team (to put it generously).

 

If the org is thinking the same way, the goal for the return on Eric has to be a top-line RW, or (at minimum) a first-round pick and a prospect. 

 

As for JR and Pittsburgh, I wouldn't give them the time of day, let alone both Staals.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eric's situation is very slippery. I do not see any team making a valuable trade for Eric at this time that will prove to be beneficial for us.With Eric's contract I think most teams would look at Eric as a rental. I wonder if RF would take a top 4 player and a second round pick?   I wouldn't be surprised if RF comes in with an offer of around 8 mil at the high end. I wouldn't touch Fleury as our D is still developing. Keep building the D,love the way we look right now with the youngsters. Never have enough d men,injuries can change that quickly. I do see Skinner being dealt this year as I was hoping he would come back big this year but has laid another egg. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eric's situation is very slippery. I do not see any team making a valuable trade for Eric at this time that will prove to be beneficial for us.With Eric's contract I think most teams would look at Eric as a rental. I wonder if RF would take a top 4 player and a second round pick?   I wouldn't be surprised if RF comes in with an offer of around 8 mil at the high end. I wouldn't touch Fleury as our D is still developing. Keep building the D,love the way we look right now with the youngsters. Never have enough d men,injuries can change that quickly. I do see Skinner being dealt this year as I was hoping he would come back big this year but has laid another egg. 

 

I'd guess GMRFs offer to E is at most $7.5m and I could see it being a lot less, maybe in the $6m range.

 

I'm still optimistic about Skinner turning it around this year. Two goals in the last 3 games and he dinged the post a couple of times on top of that. And he actually seems to be responsible defensively, a net -1 on the year so far.  It was either last game or the one before that I noticed he had 2 takeaways right in front of the oppositions crease that resulted in great chances. 

 

As far as touching our young D in order to boost our offensive potential, that seems like an interesting enough topic that I created a post for it to allow more in depth discussion. http://fans.hurricanes.nhl.com/community/topic/23207-should-the-canes-trade-a-young-defenseman/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd guess GMRFs offer to E is at most $7.5m and I could see it being a lot less, maybe in the $6m range.

 

I'm still optimistic about Skinner turning it around this year. Two goals in the last 3 games and he dinged the post a couple of times on top of that. And he actually seems to be responsible defensively, a net -1 on the year so far.  It was either last game or the one before that I noticed he had 2 takeaways right in front of the oppositions crease that resulted in great chances. 

 

As far as touching our young D in order to boost our offensive potential, that seems like an interesting enough topic that I created a post for it to allow more in depth discussion. http://fans.hurricanes.nhl.com/community/topic/23207-should-the-canes-trade-a-young-defenseman/

Skinner has also been hustling to negate icings - a great use of his speed, giving his line mates time to get in the zone. I don't know if he's dealt or not, but have to think that based on four things, he gets thru next year for the team to figure out whether he can become a key piece of the puzzle: (1) his age, (2) the fact that RF was instrumental in drafting him, (3) his natural scoring ability, and (4) his NTC doesn't kick in until after next season.

 

Unless of course (the universal caveat) some offer made in the meantime is too good to pass up. 

 

I just don't see RF offering more than $6 million to Eric, and hope it's about a million lower, if only to get the C off his jersey and him out of the room for a while. That will give the brain trust time time to gauge the impact of his absence on his brother and on the team at large. If they decide to bring him back next year at a lower price and without with the C, so be it - but I'd prefer we move on, as coastal says, to a new identity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way this season is progressing for Eric, I'll stick by my prediction from last season. No NTC and 4.5 to 5 mil per season on a 3 year contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HA! Forslund just said this after Skinner pick pocketed a Slug deep in their territory:

 

"Jeff Skinner has been a demon in terms of takeaways this year.  Among the league leaders"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...