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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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Despite all of our preconceived notions based on the Canes' results with EStaal, he would be a great addition to a good team looking for that last piece of insurance to make a deep playoff run.  His salary will not be a huge issue at the trade deadline with RF being able to retain half his salary.  A #1 and a good forward prospect should be the goal.  Any more than that is gravy.

 

On Ward, I don't think his value is going to be nearly as high as EStaal.  It's going to take a playoff team with a goalie injury or a bad backup situation. 

 

On both of these guys, I'm just ready to turn the page and move on to the next chapter of Canes hockey.  I thought for the longest time that this team was much better off with these guys than without.  I am now of the opinion that this bunch has gone as far as it can go with these guys, and the only way to get better is to cut bait and move on.  E may be a better indian than indian chief.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Despite all of our preconceived notions based on the Canes' results with EStaal, he would be a great addition to a good team looking for that last piece of insurance to make a deep playoff run.  His salary will not be a huge issue at the trade deadline with RF being able to retain half his salary.  A #1 and a good forward prospect should be the goal.  Any more than that is gravy.

 

On Ward, I don't think his value is going to be nearly as high as EStaal.  It's going to take a playoff team with a goalie injury or a bad backup situation. 

 

On both of these guys, I'm just ready to turn the page and move on to the next chapter of Canes hockey.  I thought for the longest time that this team was much better off with these guys than without.  I am now of the opinion that this bunch has gone as far as it can go with these guys, and the only way to get better is to cut bait and move on.  E may be a better indian than indian chief.

I just don't think we have the goaltending depth to let go of Cam. That, coupled with what I think will be Cam's willingness to sign at a much reduced price, makes keeping him worth the stability he provides in net, IMO.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Surprised you feel that way, caryh. Murphy has been pretty roundly praised for the strides he's made in his game this year, and at this moment is the only Canes D-man with a positive plus-minus, on a team that is -19 in goal differential.

 

 

I took this to mean he helps the Checkers more than he helps the Hurricanes, in that the Checkers are 11-9 and he could very well be a major factor in keeping them on the winning side of things and help carry them into the playoffs, whereas the Hurricanes aren't going to the dance and while Murphy's making big strides, his return doesn't make them a playoff team, especially when we all expect a fire sale is imminent.

 

That said, it doesn't help Murphy's development for him to play in Charlotte, so i'm all for bringing him back up and putting him in the top 6.  But maybe that waits until after we trade Liles and/or Hainsey, because i don't want Murphy back in the lineup at the expense of Pesce, Hanifin, or Slavin.

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I took this to mean he helps the Checkers more than he helps the Hurricanes, in that the Checkers are 11-9 and he could very well be a major factor in keeping them on the winning side of things and help carry them into the playoffs, whereas the Hurricanes aren't going to the dance and while Murphy's making big strides, his return doesn't make them a playoff team, especially when we all expect a fire sale is imminent.

 

That said, it doesn't help Murphy's development for him to play in Charlotte, so i'm all for bringing him back up and putting him in the top 6.  But maybe that waits until after we trade Liles and/or Hainsey, because i don't want Murphy back in the lineup at the expense of Pesce, Hanifin, or Slavin.

 

Agreed! My opinion on Murphy is he is small and not yet strong enough in front to keep players out. He is good in the corners but I have seen him try to get the guys out of the way in front and they act like he is just a little gnat. He may be an offensive defenseman but sometimes he looks like a puck hog, to me.  

 

Keep Pesce and Slavin and let him gain strength in Charlotte...IMHO!

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That said, it doesn't help Murphy's development for him to play in Charlotte

My point exactly. No sense keeping him down on the farm. At this point the more NHL game experience he gets, and with Peters' system, the better.

 

And re Slavin, he's only up because Murph got hurt. If the system's goal is to reward guys who rise to the challenge, Murphy has done that. Besides, the last year of his entry-level contract is not the time to keep him in the AHL.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Top, thanks for the quotes about the Iginla situation, I wish we eventually got that kind of feedback on our guys: ie what really happened w/ Whitney, Sekera, etc, and eventually Ward and Staal. It is also another concrete example of the effect of NTC's. They had three teams bidding, but basically Iginla got to pick based on his needs over team needs. Odds are they had a better offer from one of the other bidders. At least they were lucky that Iginla approved any trade.

 

So much of this ultimately comes down to not only does Francis want these guys, but also at what price.

 

Take Ward, .... please, *rim shot*. But seriously, it is probalby a safe assumption that the return on Ward is going to be dissapointing barring an injury to just the right goalie. Thus, Ward has basically played himself out of a good trade. But would Ward sign for a serious pay cut? If Ward would sign for say just a touch more than Lack is making, and waive the NTC, it would be a good move (to me) to sign him. If he and Lack start playing consistently well A. We can afford a nice tandem. B. We can trade Ward. If Ward thinks he is a $6 million, NTC kind of guy, then signing him is not even an option, even if he walks for nothing.

 

Here, we are guessing at best. We really don't know where the sides are now, or their bottom line.

 

Same basic concept w/ Eric. Would he take less than his little brother? Would he let go of the NTC? Woudl he be wlling to step down from the Captaincy if it comes to that at some point? If the answer is yes to all three, we might be better off signing him. Again, w/ a decent contract, he could always be traded. On the flip side, if he insists on a NTC, and at least $7 plus million? He has to be traded. And if he refuses that trade and holds out for the big money....bad situation, but we have to let him walk.

 

So it comes down to how realistically Eric and Cam value their post 30 selves, and for me at least, weather they must have NTC's.

 

It's like watching Pawn Stars were Rick says, "I want this, but I have to get the right price." But on the flip side, both E and Ward have those NTC's, which means not only do they have to agree to the idea of being traded, but that the time is now. Are they ready now? Well if there's a great deal on the table now and they're not ready...then we get less when they are ready.

 

Not necessarily a yes/no decision. A lot of "if-then" aspects probably.

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My point exactly. No sense keeping him down on the farm. At this point the more NHL game experience he gets, and with Peters' system, the better.

 

Another consideration is the whole trade thing. Given our defensive depth, a much improved Murphy, a mid first round pick just rounding into form could be part of a needed trade for future forward help. If he's not good enough to play in the NHL on this team? Can't help his value. This of course assumes that some GM values Murphy highly. If not, of course trading him doesn't make much sense. But with his improved play, and if he starts putting up more points, never know. GM's have a history of chasing "offensive" dmen, especially now when activating the D is so in vogue.

 

Also, he does need to be proving his NHL chops now.

 

Also, is he on a conditioning stint? Is leaving him down there even an option without subjecting him to waivers?

Edited by remkin

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And on the return on E. If E agreed to a trade, he would return at least a first rounder and that assumes it is not a trade and sign, which could bring more. Think about a boardline playoff team that is weak down the middle adding E as their second line center for a playoff run? If said team also had an expiring bad contract? Done. We take that and get an even better return. They are almost guaranteed a playoff spot and possibly a run.

 

From our side, if it is a boarderline team, especially in the West, say Vancouver, that needs some more offense at second line center, but plays in the brutal West. They might still miss the playoffs giving us a lottery pick potentially. There should be a few teams in this kind of spot. Minnesota might be another one. Nashville, on futher look, would be another, they are getting squat production from the Center position. Their second best center is on a 24 point pace. While they are in a wild card spot, they are on the cusp and you never know.

 

The teams clearly out of it are clearly not giving up their #1. The best bet is a team that is at the cut line. Last year around this time Toronto was still in the hunt when the supposedly offered up Kessell, Kadri and their #1 for E. The point is not about whether we would want Kessel, but that their pick went from a mid rounder to #4 and Mitch Marner.

 

Anyways, just spitballin here.

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So with Carey Price out 6 weeks with a knee injury could they be shopping or will they go with Condon and Tokarski. I know they say 6 weeks and no surgery but it is a knee injury. 

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Agreed! My opinion on Murphy is he is small and not yet strong enough in front to keep players out. He is good in the corners but I have seen him try to get the guys out of the way in front and they act like he is just a little gnat. He may be an offensive defenseman but sometimes he looks like a puck hog, to me.  

 

Keep Pesce and Slavin and let him gain strength in Charlotte...IMHO!

 

 

It actually looks like we're in exact disagreement.  The only entity helped by Murphy in Charlotte is the Charlotte Checkers.  For Murphy's and the Hurricanes' sakes, he needs to be in Raleigh.  I just don't know where the room comes from, because the players we all want out - Hainsey and Liles - are the ones who need to be out there increasing their trade values.

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Another consideration is the whole trade thing. Given our defensive depth, a much improved Murphy, a mid first round pick just rounding into form could be part of a needed trade for future forward help. If he's not good enough to play in the NHL on this team? Can't help his value. This of course assumes that some GM values Murphy highly. If not, of course trading him doesn't make much sense. But with his improved play, and if he starts putting up more points, never know. GM's have a history of chasing "offensive" dmen, especially now when activating the D is so in vogue.

 

Also, he does need to be proving his NHL chops now.

 

Also, is he on a conditioning stint? Is leaving him down there even an option without subjecting him to waivers?

Yeah, conditioning stint. Hat tip to OBXer, it looks like it was just a straight re-assignment to CLT.

 

There is zero good reason to leave him there IMO, and given BP's own desire to activate the D, I don't see us moving him until the TD, if we do at all. My guess is that he re-ups because the deeper we are at the NHL level the deeper we get in the AHL, and the more competition is created for slots. Competition for slots, in turn, means much better hockey overall, and more players in our system that other orgs might become interested in.  

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Help me out. I have been out of action for a few days and I'm trying to catch up. I'm trying to find the release that says Murphy is on a conditioning stint. He may well be but the team release only says he has been assigned to Charlotte. They usually mention a conditioning stint if that is what it is.

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http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_news.htm?id=789899

Dont know if anyone posted this already from NHL. Was suprised we got a write up, someone out there in hockey world is actually paying attention to the Canes

 

If that happens I would be happy. This season I wanted to see progress. I do in individual players but as a team not so much

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Help me out. I have been out of action for a few days and I'm trying to catch up. I'm trying to find the release that says Murphy is on a conditioning stint. He may well be but the team release only says he has been assigned to Charlotte. They usually mention a conditioning stint if that is what it is.

You are right, OBX. It says nothing about a conditioning stint.  :o :blush:

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Murphy's re-assignment makes me wonder if a deal is in the works - but not for Murphy. Something for Hainsey or Liles maybe, with Murph returning when it gets done?

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Murphy game was improving and before the injury he was beginning to join the rush and shoot more. It appears he has carried that game into Charlotte. I expect he will be back soon. I'm guessing something has to happen first to make room.

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I just assumed it was conditioning. I guess if he can still be up and down without waivers don't really need to make that distinction, but it was a concussion, not his play, that took him out of the line up, so it stands to reason that conditioning or at least getting his legs under him, was the reason for the trip to Charlotte regaurdless of what it was called. As such, would expect him back ASAP.

Edited by remkin

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I just assumed it was conditioning. I guess if he can still be up and down without waivers don't really need to make that distinction, but it was a concussion, not his play, that took him out of the line up, so it stands to reason that conditioning or at least getting his legs under him, was the reason for the trip to Charlotte regaurdless of what it was called. As such, would expect him back ASAP.

I conjectured at the time of his assignment that he would likely benefit more playing in CLT's four game homestand than traveling with the team and having to jump right back to NHL speed. Given Smitty's status update on him I tend to think he'll be back for the Devs Thursday, with Jordan heading back to CLT.

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http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_news.htm?id=789899

Dont know if anyone posted this already from NHL. Was suprised we got a write up, someone out there in hockey world is actually paying attention to the Canes

 

The only thing is that the presumption here, and the basis of the arguement that we'll rise up, that being that our 5 on 5 possession numbers are outpacing our shooting % and save %, is not a new phenomena. This was the exact same thing last year, a year that we ended up in 26th. This is the "tons of shots on goal but still not score and limit shots but still get scored on" theme that we watched last year and again this year. Add in #30/30 PP, and you have what it is.

 

Now don't get me wrong. IF we start getting guys like Skindholm and Staals squared actually putting the puck in the net, and if this coincides with some tighter goalie play, and an improved PP, sure...but those "if's" have been out there a long time with the "then" part never materializing.

Edited by remkin

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My point exactly. No sense keeping him down on the farm. At this point the more NHL game experience he gets, and with Peters' system, the better.

 

And re Slavin, he's only up because Murph got hurt. If the system's goal is to reward guys who rise to the challenge, Murphy has done that. Besides, the last year of his entry-level contract is not the time to keep him in the AHL.

 

Murphy's negs far outweigh the positives    IMHO Slavin is actually a much better addition.  Murhpy is just too small and not rough enough to help us. Could he change? .. sure but I haven't seen it yet. 

Edited by caryhurricanes

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Murphy's negs far outweigh the positives    IMHO Slavin is actually a much better addition.  Murhpy is just too small and not rough enough to help us. Could he change? .. sure but I haven't seen it yet. 

Last year I'd have agreed, but maybe you've missed some games? Murphy's playing very differently this year and is the only Dman in plus territory (+1) on a team that's -19 in goal differential.

 

Slavin's been good, but five NHL games is a little quick to decide he's here to stay. That said, I'd rather keep him up and send Jordan to CLT.

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caryhurricanes, I'll chime in on this also. While I tend to agree, and to some degree am also agreeing with TS-1, what has me on the fence in Murph's case is when I look at Ottawa's Karlsson. He's just a tad bigger, and what a weapon. Can Murphy attain this level, IDK, but if so, watch out.

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Slavin's been good, but five NHL games is a little quick to decide he's here to stay. That said, I'd rather keep him up and send Jordan to CLT.

 

 

If i'm Francis, i definitely send Jordan down.  Sure, even then he's being paid NHL salary but right now he's being paid NHL salary to enjoy the games from the pressbox, so no biggie.

 

Problem is that it just means someone else is sitting in the pressbox.  And who do you sit?  Or do you dress 7 D?  I guess Hanifin hasn't sat in a while, but i'm really not chomping at the bit to see him sit out another game.

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I just don't think we have the goaltending depth to let go of Cam. That, coupled with what I think will be Cam's willingness to sign at a much reduced price, makes keeping him worth the stability he provides in net, IMO.

As I watch Cam give up 3 goals on 8 shots so far against the Rangers, I see your point.

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