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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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Call guys up...win 2 games...send guys back down.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.  Canes moved up from dead last to 25th in the league.  Need to protect that draft positioning.  New plan, try to win home games and not so much on the road.  Brilliant!

Edited by super_dave_1

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I think we all enjoy his energy and willingness to hit so much we've ignored that he's a -12 which is a team worst and in half the games as anyone else no less.

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And that's one of the directions the team has been going in - better defensive responsibility.  Two wins and McGinn still managed to drop his team-basement +/- even further.  I could very well imagine Francis telling him to keep working on his defensive game and he'll keep getting looks until he's ready.

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I think the defensive responsibility aspect is better sorted out in Charlotte than in Raleigh.  I love what McGinn does physically, but he needs to learn to use his powers for good and not evil.

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The only place Jordan would go is Charlotte

That works. Put him on waivers. Maybe you get lucky and somebody grabs him. Maybe he goes back to CLT. Either way, you've made roster space for Carrick, Lowe, Ganly, Biega, Rissanen...

 

I don't see burning a roster spot on Terry, either.

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Is the For Sale sign really up?  Seeing this in multiple places.

 

http://spectorshockey.net/sunday-nhl-rumor-roundup-december-6-2015/

 

I saw that yesterday, and I'm a tad confused.  From that, it looks like RF just wants out of Skinner's contract and may have to throw a prospect in to make it work.  I question the validity of that.

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Is the For Sale sign really up?  Seeing this in multiple places.

 

http://spectorshockey.net/sunday-nhl-rumor-roundup-december-6-2015/

 

Skinner is playing the best I've seen in at least 2 years. He is the old Skinner. Thing is, are other GM's seeing this already? Seems to me that he is going to need to keep this up and pot a few more goals before his value will rise to the point that he might be worth moving.

 

In that same article, we keep hearing that Columbus seems to want to move Ryan Johansen. I suspect that they are not keen on what they think they will have to pay him and are less than thrilled about his holdout. But the guy is a legit first line center and is only 23 years old. He has averaged 67 points and 30G his last two seasons, with a middle of the pack +/- despite playing top line minutes.  He is 6'3" 218. He was the #4 overall pick (Skinner's draft). For a team (us) that might just be about to unload our IC, locking down a guy not even at his peak, especially if we did NOT trade a forward for him, would fill that slot instantly.

 

Last year he was the #16 forward and the #10 center in points in the NHL (E was #67 and #32).

 

All we would have to do from that point on? Draft wingers and maybe another goalie prospect.

 

They reportely want a Dman. And it would have to be a good one. Would it be totally nuts to trade Faulk for Johansen pretty much straight up? OR even if we sweetened the pot? Then they could have Falk and Faulk. That could be fun.

 

He goes to $6 million next year, and is worth really more than that. Then the year after next he is a RFA. We would proably have to make him a nice deal to get him locked up, and yes, that has been a problem in the past. But, Ward and Eric's salaries will be off the books, as would Faulk's (Faulk goes to $5.5 million next year). That is over $20 million in open cap space/year.

 

Forwards allegedly peak at 27. Thus the best years are generally 25-30. We would have him for all of those years. He has not peaked and he is already the 10th best center in the game statistically.

 

It is said that Champion teams absolutely NEED 2 things: 1. A stud defensman. A guy whose name can be brought up with the name Norris and not get confused looks. 2. A stud first line center. (Then you need a solid goalie, at least 3 more elite scorers, a strong 2c, at least one more near, but not quite All Star Dman, and ideally two more solid Dmen, supporting cast, etc). But the two pillars: #1 D, #1 C.

 

We would have nearly all of that in a couple of years if we lock Johansen down after his RFA:

 

1. Stud 1C: check

2. Stud Dman: check (Hanifin will be that).

3. 3 more elite scores: Skinner (or trade recip), Lindholm (not proven yet), This year's top draftee, or UFA

4. Jordan is a strong 2/3 Center and Rask is a strong 3/2 center.

5. Pesce/Fleury/Slavin will almost certainly be enough support for Hanifin (we still have Murphy and McKeown too).

6. Goalie. Well in a couple of year it really could be Nedeljovich.

 

The defense will be young. Maybe we keep Wiz or a seriously downslotted Hainsey. And our drafted forwards will need a couple of years, but we could surprise as soon as next year, and be serious contenders 2-3 years out and for years after that.

 

Again, the two hardest positions to fill to be elite are #1 Dman and #1 Center. We could be set for 7-10 years on both with Hanafin/Johansen.

Edited by remkin

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Trading Skinner right now doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm not saying we shouldn't trade Skinner, but now seems like the worst possible time.  It's undoubtedly one of the lowest points of his career so return won't be great.  But he seems like he's starting to turn it around.  4 goals in the past 8 games and rang the pipes several times as well.   Historically a terrible +-, this year he's a -3 through 27 games on a team that's giving up a lot more than they're scoring.  And recently he's actually been generating offensive opportunities by stealing the puck in deep in the opposition's zone.  He may have the best hands on the team; how many other Canes could have scored that goal in front of the Montreal net the other day? I see him as being able to generate offense where most of the current Canes forwards can't (maybe Versteeg).  Just doesn't make sense to move him right now imo.

 

edit: rem posted while I was typing :lol: 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Big Buf in Winnipeg is a UFA at end of season.  He may want too much $ but he is a big mobile body that NO-ONE in the NHL messes with.  Canes suffer from a complate lack of swagger that we will never get with either Staal, or any of our current DMen.  Big Buf would fill that roll and then some.  When E. Kane was being a moron in Winnipeg last season Buf took ALL his clothes after practice and threw them in the shower (think Winnipeg winter) to send the message you ain't bigger than the team.  Know what Kane did? Nothing.  Buf is the type of player that would add a couple of inches and 25 lbs to every Cane on the ice. No-one fears the Canes, we are absolutely one of the least physical teams in the league coupled with average NHL level skaters.  We need to address that ASAP.

 

Its one thing to grow the team through draft picks but right now the Canes have another major league problem - attendance.  Nobody from Charlotte who gets called up will help that and no-one presently on the Canes roster does it either.

 

Spend some $$ try and land Dustin in the off season.

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. . .

. . .

Would it be totally nuts to trade Faulk for Johansen pretty much straight up? OR even if we sweetened the pot? Then they could have Falk and Faulk. That could be fun.

. . .

 

First off,  I'm surprised you didn't include that couch emoji to duck down behind when you posted this.  :P

 

On the one hand it's not completely nuts imo.  Given the state of this Canes franchise, I see us as having a much harder time getting a franchise center than replacing Faulk as our franchise d-man.  And at this point I see Faulk's career as likely being more 1 dimensional than well rounded (although what a dimension it is!)  I just don't see him developing into a strong 2-way defensman. You can say he's only as 23 and d-men develop slowly, but he's had 4 full NHL seasons and I don't see the signs that would lead me to believe he's suddenly going to change significantly.  Whereas I see Hanifin as likely developing to be much more well rounded, although it's going to be tough for him to reach Faulk's level of scoring prowess.  And as you say, there's a lot of blue line support on the way. 

 

On the other hand, I'd have some real concerns.  After this season Faulk is basically signed for 4 more years at $5.75m per, Johansen for 1 more year at $6m.  I'd need to know he'd be here for more than the 2016-17 season, and at a not outlandish $ (at least for a franchise center). That concern is especially worrisome given that his last contract negotiation was so contentious.  Although I don't know how much of that might be on the CBJs vs. Johansen (he's making less than Nick Bjugstad, Marc Savard, and Nazem Kadri). 

 

Of course the politics of it would be almost impossible to overcome.  Faulk currently provides a good portion of our offense, wears an A, and arguably represents the face of the franchise more so than any other Cane at this point.  I don't see how GMRF could deal him even if it would be in the best long term interest of the Canes.

 

But if you're willing to get crazy, what about a multiplayer mega deal with Edmonton?  We kicked around some options in another thread, but they only included our rookies/ prospects.  Which, on reflection, wouldn't really fly as the Oil are looking for immediate defensive help, not a year or 2 down the road.  What about Faulk plus a younger Cane/ prospect for Draisaitl (a likely future franchise center imo) plus Eberle (a much needed RW)? Our plus would still have to be pretty good (I wonder if they'd take Ryan Murphy?), but talk about a blockbuster deal!   I haven't looked at the Oil contracts, but seems like you could get something reasonably balanced.

 

Ok, fire away!

:couch:

Edited by LakeLivin

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Skinner is playing the best I've seen in at least 2 years. He is the old Skinner. Thing is, are other GM's seeing this already? Seems to me that he is going to need to keep this up and pot a few more goals before his value will rise to the point that he might be worth moving.

 

In that same article, we keep hearing that Columbus seems to want to move Ryan Johansen. I suspect that they are not keen on what they think they will have to pay him and are less than thrilled about his holdout. But the guy is a legit first line center and is only 23 years old. He has averaged 67 points and 30G his last two seasons, with a middle of the pack +/- despite playing top line minutes.  He is 6'3" 218. He was the #4 overall pick (Skinner's draft). For a team (us) that might just be about to unload our IC, locking down a guy not even at his peak, especially if we did NOT trade a forward for him, would fill that slot instantly.

 

Last year he was the #16 forward and the #10 center in points in the NHL (E was #67 and #32).

 

All we would have to do from that point on? Draft wingers and maybe another goalie prospect.

 

They reportely want a Dman. And it would have to be a good one. Would it be totally nuts to trade Faulk for Johansen pretty much straight up? OR even if we sweetened the pot? Then they could have Falk and Faulk. That could be fun.

 

He goes to $6 million next year, and is worth really more than that. Then the year after next he is a RFA. We would proably have to make him a nice deal to get him locked up, and yes, that has been a problem in the past. But, Ward and Eric's salaries will be off the books, as would Faulk's (Faulk goes to $5.5 million next year). That is over $20 million in open cap space/year.

 

Forwards allegedly peak at 27. Thus the best years are generally 25-30. We would have him for all of those years. He has not peaked and he is already the 10th best center in the game statistically.

 

It is said that Champion teams absolutely NEED 2 things: 1. A stud defensman. A guy whose name can be brought up with the name Norris and not get confused looks. 2. A stud first line center. (Then you need a solid goalie, at least 3 more elite scorers, a strong 2c, at least one more near, but not quite All Star Dman, and ideally two more solid Dmen, supporting cast, etc). But the two pillars: #1 D, #1 C.

 

We would have nearly all of that in a couple of years if we lock Johansen down after his RFA:

 

1. Stud 1C: check

2. Stud Dman: check (Hanifin will be that).

3. 3 more elite scores: Skinner (or trade recip), Lindholm (not proven yet), This year's top draftee, or UFA

4. Jordan is a strong 2/3 Center and Rask is a strong 3/2 center.

5. Pesce/Fleury/Slavin will almost certainly be enough support for Hanifin (we still have Murphy and McKeown too).

6. Goalie. Well in a couple of year it really could be Nedeljovich.

 

The defense will be young. Maybe we keep Wiz or a seriously downslotted Hainsey. And our drafted forwards will need a couple of years, but we could surprise as soon as next year, and be serious contenders 2-3 years out and for years after that.

 

Again, the two hardest positions to fill to be elite are #1 Dman and #1 Center. We could be set for 7-10 years on both with Hanafin/Johansen.

 

 

You had me sold until you mentioned Faulk and being traded.  IMO Hanifin is not a stud dman until he puts up numbers that are comparable to a stud d man.  We also thought Skinner would be the next Brett Hull and look how that turned out!  I feel that Johansen would be a legit ticket.  Skinner, Slavin/Murphy and a 1st for Johansen.  That seems fair to me....

Edited by bluedevil58

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Interesting read from Down Goes Brown re whether the Canes are bad or just unlucky. Turns out they are.

 

Click Me!!!

 

". . . an up-and-down team that has had its moments despite the fact that it's probably not very good. Unless it is. Which it's not. We think." :rofl:

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Faulk is going nowhere unless it's to get Patrick Kane. 

 

For Johansen, I would do Skinner + Murphy or Slavin + 2nd 2016. Not sure if Columbus would bite at that though. 

 

This team has needed Defense help for years. Now that Faulk is actually proving to be a legit Top 2 D-man you don't trade him now. Hanifin looks to be the real deal, but you need more than 1 season out of him. Not to mention, a Faulk/Hanifin pair could quite frankly be one of the best in the NHL in a few years. The only positive on this team is the young D, you don't just go trade them away now.

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I'll tell you what. If we can get Johansen for Skinner plus Murphy and a second rounder, PULL! But then start follwing the Yellow Brick Road to see the Wizard, and I don't mean Ray Whitney, because we're in Oz.

 

The problem with trade proposals is that we always tend to propose one sided trades that seriously overvalue our side. No GM would want to pick up our two small concussion prone players and a pick that has a 1/4 chance of ever making it in the NHL for a #4 overall pic who has developed into one of the top players in the NHL at a key position.

 

The idea that Faulk is even on the same planet value-wise as Patrick Kane is either a symptom of that unrealistic view, or maybe was kind of said in jest?

 

Columbus wants defense and you have to give to get. The one guy on our roster who might pry Johansen loose would be Faulk. To be honest, we probably have to throw Murphy or something else in too.

 

The issue of paying the kid when he's a RFA is legit, but we will be free of Cam's Salary, Eric's salary, and in my deal Faulk's salary. On top of that there is all this talk of us trading Skinner. We will have so much cap space we are going to have basement issues.

 

Further, unless we think Eric is going to be a legit Stanley Cup contender First line Center, we're going to need one. They tend to go in the top 3-4 picks. Guess what? With the new format to stop teams from tanking, even the last place team has the greatest chance of picking 4th, and after that it just gets worse. The reward for tanking is gone.

 

Trade Eric for another first rounder and a player. That's another player and three first round picks.

 

So we'd have Johansen, a player for Eric, and then three first rounders to find two scoring wingers.

 

I get that Faulk is a major favorite of many and at the moment our clear best defenseman. But they want defense and I don't think Hainsey will get it done. And as good of a prospect as Fleury is, no way does he equal Johansen.

 

To me the biggest arguement against is that we would eventually end up with a very young defense top to bottom with really no long term vets even in a couple of years. The next best one is that Faulk IS what he is, while Fleury, et all, maybe even Hanifin (though he seems obvious to me) are not proven to be as good as Faulk is right now.

 

I do like Faulk. I don't want to trade him. But we need to start thinking about a rebuild here, that probably means Eric is gone. That means we need a first line center, and with all due respect I'm less sure Rask will be an elite 1C than I am about Hanfin being an elite #1. And J has had more than enough time to show it too. We are going to need one. Johansen is one. 

Edited by remkin

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But if you're willing to get crazy, what about a multiplayer mega deal with Edmonton?  We kicked around some options in another thread, but they only included our rookies/ prospects.  Which, on reflection, wouldn't really fly as the Oil are looking for immediate defensive help, not a year or 2 down the road.  What about Faulk plus a younger Cane/ prospect for Draisaitl (a likely future franchise center imo) plus Eberle (a much needed RW)? Our plus would still have to be pretty good (I wonder if they'd take Ryan Murphy?), but talk about a blockbuster deal!   I haven't looked at the Oil contracts, but seems like you could get something reasonably balanced.

 

 

I really like Draistl. Problem is, so does Edmonton. Funny w/ all those #1 picks that a #3 pick would fall right behind McDavid as the most untradable guys on the team, but my sense is that is the case. The Oil will have their version of Crosby-Malkin down the middle sooner than later.

 

The guy is 20 and is on what would translate to a 90 point pace. Last year that would make him the highest scoring player in the entire league. That's the kind of guy a GM simply cannot trade. Yes, it's a fairly small sample size, but basically he's not for sale.

Edited by remkin

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I really like Draistl. Problem is, so does Edmonton. Funny w/ all those #1 picks that a #3 pick would fall right behind McDavid as the most untradable guys on the team, but my sense is that is the case.

 

The guy is 20 and is on what would translate to a 90 point pace. Last year that would make him the highest scoring player in the entire league. That's the kind of guy a GM simply cannot trade. Yes, it's a fairly small sample size, but basically he's not for sale.

 

 I understand your point, but I suspect that for all practical purposes Faulk is at least as (if not more so) untradeable from a Canes perspective as Draisaitl is from Edmontons.  And it seems like Edmonton is desperate for a top pair d-man right now. Since it's all never going to get beyond the hypothetical anyways, why not include that proposition in the discussion?

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 I understand your point, but I suspect that for all practical purposes Faulk is at least as (if not more so) untradeable from a Canes perspective as Draisaitl is from Edmontons.  And it seems like Edmonton is desperate for a top pair d-man right now. Since it's all never going to get beyond the hypothetical anyways, why not include that proposition in the discussion?

 

Sure. I'm just giving my take. Defintely not trying to shut down discussion. I would hope others would chip in on both proposals.

 

My thoughts: Johansen is rumored to be on the block, while just the other day I heard a local expert on XM say that Draistl is considered pretty untouchable.  Also, the Oilers and Islanders were reportedly just recently talking about what the Islanders might want for Travis Hamanic, also a top pair dman. Talks broke down. Some think the Isanders wanted Draisatl and it was a non starter. IMHO the only player on our entire team that would be the equal to Draisatl would be the Hanifin of a couple more years. But heck, if they'd give us him plus Eberle for Faulk and a prospect not named Fleury? I'd do the Snoopy happy dance on the Jumbotron. 

Edited by remkin

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Sure. I'm just giving my take. Defintely not trying to shut down discussion. I would hope others would chip in on both proposals.

 

My thoughts: Johansen is rumored to be on the block, while just the other day I heard a local expert on XM say that Draistl is considered pretty untouchable.  Also, the Oilers and Islanders were reportedly just recently talking about what the Islanders might want for Travis Hamanic, also a top pair dman. Talks broke down. Some think the Isanders wanted Draisatl and it was a non starter. IMHO the only player on our entire team that would be the equal to Draisatl would be the Hanifin of a couple more years. But heck, if they'd give us him [Draisaitl] plus Eberle for Faulk and a prospect not named Fleury? I'd do the Snoopy happy dance on the Jumbotron. 

 

Watch it rem, you're going to get yourself run out of town. I don't think you're allowed to say that on these boards. :lol:

 

In the big scheme of things I understand where you're coming from and it could make some sense in the long run, although it's one of those things that could never happen in the real world.  

Edited by LakeLivin

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