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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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With the Drouin situation playing out in Tampa I'm really glad JR is no longer here. I could see a 10 year ,escalating pay, NTC contract with a forth sweater letter. If you can't find your game with a playoff team, maybe you need time in the AHL. Grow up, adjust, overcome. If you can't do that there is a new Tiddly Winks league starting.

Totally agree with this. I know the reports are that we're showing interest. I hope those reports are wrong. While there is plenty of blame to go around in the Drouin situation, one rule must stand: Draftees on entry-level deals do what they're told and like it. Any GM who accommodates this kid had best not be complaining about salaries, the NHLPA, or anything else - because they're very the GMs who enable all the things they so love to complain about.

 

The best place this kid could land is Montreal. It's the only fan base that might tolerate his "take my puck and go home" nonsense, and only then b/c he's Quebecois. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I'm not so sure on exactly where to place the blame with the Drouin deal, so I won't. Sure, it appears that he and his agent have handled it poorly, but we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes. When you are talking about a pro athlete, in most cases they are used up by about 30 years old. I can see a player getting concerned when those years start to get away from them.

It's easy for us to say that he should just shut up and play, but it's a business.

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Sould be an interesting drive to the Canes game tomorrow. Probably be pretty light attendance. Least We won't have to put up with listening to "hometown" fans like the rangers game. Hearing them chant lets go rangers in our house was painful.

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A value investor has to find opportunity. In our setting our GM has to be a value investor. We don't have the budget not to be.

 

JR messed up big time with the big contracts to guys who did not deliver. Semin was epic, but both Staals and Ward have fallen far short of their paychecks. I get that.

 

But there was a good side to JR and it was this. When not handing out ridiculous contracts to certain guys, he was able to find the misfit toys also: Whitney, Stillman, Cullen, even Williams to some extent was undervalued, Jussi (put up 65 points after being had for peanuts), Sergei Sampsonov, Sekera (for McBain), even the first year of Semin (Semin showed both sides of JR: the good, the one year deal: he put up a point per game that first year, we all know the bad), Juri Tlusty for "where is he now? Where has he ever been" Phillipe Paradis, Scott Walker, etc.

 

To make a value play, you have to take a chance. Something has to happen to open the door, create the opportunity.  You do have to do due diligence, but if Johansen didn't have contract and other issues with Columbus, Nashville never gets him. If Boston didn't have issues with Seguin? He's not lighting up the league in Dallas. If Drouin was a model citizen with an old school agent, he is not on the market let alone possibly had for below value.

 

Many of today's superstar prospects have a very high expectation to play soon in the NHL. This is not unique to Drouin. He's just the one guy from the top 10 of his draft not making it the way he wants. But making it on an offensively loaded team IS a problem. Tampa Bay just played for the cup a few months ago.

 

Tampa had laid a freaky bad "outlier season" in 12-13, finishing #28 and thus getting to pick Drouin #3. But by the next year they were back with a vengeance and #8 in the leaugue, and #5 the following year. Most top picks end up on bad teams with a big need at the position they were drafted at. Not Tampa. Then, you have a GM from the Detroit system who expects (correctly) that guys learn the game right, even if it means AHL time. Then you factor in an somewhat eccentric agent?

 

Again, Drouin did go play a couple of AHL games. Then his agent claims that a trade was imminent and didn't want to risk injury so pulls him out of the next game.

 

There are not lots of reports of Drouin being a problem child in Juniors. If he were, there is no way Yzerman picks him #3 with names still on the board including Seth Jones if there is any hint that Drouin is trouble.

 

There are also reports that he got along fine with his AHL teammates when he did play.

 

This kid put up well over 2 points per game in two seasons in Juniors. One year he put up just shy of one GOAL per game, and he was a plus 98 over those 2 years. His talent is off the charts elite.

 

Yes, he is small, but fast. But small is not a death sentence in today's NHL. He's a Giant compared to Johnny "5'9" tiny (ppg, All-Star) Gaudreau".

 

Elite playmakers who can also score goals consistently are hard to find. Yet a must to have if you want to be the perennial contender that Francis is trying to build. Look, I know there are some who think a team of decent, old school, just play tough and have a heart of fire guys is what you need. But the facts belie that. Every team that is consistently at the top of the pile has elite forwards who create offense.

 

I think you need at least 2 truly elite forwards, and a couple more that are close.

 

We don't have any right now. Skinner, when he's hot, can bet one of the ones that is "close", but even he, is too one dimensional and small to be THE guy), Eric Staal used to be one (and we have a cup and an ECF appearance to show for it), but not now, maybe one day Lindholm could be one. But right now, we don't even have one.

 

So, where do we get one, let alone two? They are hard to find. Draft? Yes. But we dang well better start losing even more, and even then have a good lottery, and even then, as Drouin, and Lindy have shown, it can take a while. Plus, that is our pick, LA's will likely not be high enough.

 

So that is my case for at least kicking the tires on an elite talent, #3 overall pick who has already put in over two years of development and could be right on the cusp of really delivering big time for years to come.

Edited by remkin

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Imo the Drouin situation comes down to risk-reward / cost-benefit equations.  I understand that some of you believe that the risk portion of the equation is already so high that we shouldn't even explore Drouin.  I'm not there yet.  But if we are open to exploring Drouin, any progression would be dependent on RF and BP coming away with a very strong feeling that the kid could work out here after meeting with him face-to-face.  I'm not going to pretend to know what it would take in that meeting, I'll leave that up to the judgement of our brass. But I can see where the Canes organization might be in a place where Drouin could work out.  "Kick the tires" is a good way to put how I'd like to see us go forth.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I would absolutely kick the tires,inflate them and rotate them if that is what it takes. Not sure what it would take. I'd make many multiple combinations available to make it happen. I have changed my opinion on taking a chance on him. These opportunities don't come along often. I would think the kid would be happy getting to play full time and with a team of youth that is growing. Players worth offering could be Liles, Wisniewski, Murphy, Hainsey, Gerbe,Terry, Michal Jordan,Nestrasil,Nordstrom. I understand some of the Dmen are left shot but I threw them in anyway. Let's not forget putting Eric on the list. I'm wondering if Ronnie is also thinking of keeping Staal at 6 mil and adding more offense to the line, I know, I know.

 

 

So that is my case for at least kicking the tires on an elite talent, #3 overall pick who has already put in over two years of development and could be right on the cusp of really delivering big time for years to come.

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Better be ready to trade him if the Canes decide he needs to spend time in the AHL because he's too good for that in his own mind.

 

That needs to be factored into the risk/ reward analysis.  I'm NOT saying we should ever let a kid dictate where he plays. So the question is, if Carolina obtained Drouin what are the odds that a situation ever develops where things would digress to the point that we'd need to trade the kid or let him walk (and essentially end his NHL career)?  Or where the kid disrupts team chemistry? And then that weighed against the potential benefits of signing the kid.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Imo the Drouin situation comes down to risk-reward / cost-benefit equations.  I understand that some of you believe that the risk portion of the equation is already so high that we shouldn't even explore Drouin.  I'm not there yet.  But if we are open to exploring Drouin, any progression would be dependent on JR RFand BP coming away with a very strong feeling that the kid could work out here after meeting with him face-to-face.  I'm not going to pretend to know what it would take in that meeting, I'll leave that up to the judgement of our brass. But I can see where the Canes organization might be in a place where Drouin could work out.  "Kick the tires" is a good way to put how I'd like to see us go forth.

 

I make one suggested correction. :)

 

This may be a dumb question, but is having a face-to-face meeting with the player even legal, given TB holds his rights?  If not, is it legal for TB to allow a conversation with the agent and/or Drouin and our brass?

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I make one suggested correction. :)

 

This may be a dumb question, but is having a face-to-face meeting with the player even legal, given TB holds his rights?  If not, is it legal for TB to allow a conversation with the agent and/or Drouin and our brass?

 

Oops,thanks, fixed.  :love:

 

I'm guessing that it would be like teams that want to approach assistant coaches in other sports where they need to get permission from the current team before talking to them.  If so, seems like that wouldn't be problem from the Bolts perspective; there's little chance that Drouin will ever play for Tampa again.

Edited by LakeLivin

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That Drouin may be an incorrigible prima donna is the risk. But things can be done to assess this risk. Talk with ex coaches, ex teammates, all kinds of contacts if not the guy himself. I don't think that has been his reputation, and again Yzerman did draft him #3 after all.

 

On top of that, the guy will have zero credibility to try to pull this same thing with another team. The history is there now. Almost unanimously people around the league are roundly thumping Drouin and his agent for this move. If the kid has any sense at all he would never try this again with a second team. But to be honest, if I got him here, I would not just send him to Charlotte, I would give him a shot. He can't be any worse than Terry or Nash. IF he just could not figure out how to play in Peter's system after a decent run of games, then yes, finish the year in Charlotte and start the year fresh next year. I bet he goes quiet as a church mouse.

 

But I'd bet we never have to do that. Even in Tampa, who has way more top forwards than us, this was supposed to be a temporary thing to the AHL and back this year.

 

Again though, there is risk for sure. For me, though, I would worry more about work ethic issues. I have not heard any of that w/ Drouin but I have with a couple of our prospects. If he works hard and plays hard, I'd put up with some overconfidence and an expectation that he can play in the NHL.

 

The main problem I see is the rumor that the Bolts don't want to trade him in the conference unless the deal is just too good. I am all about making the deal if Francis, et all think he is basically a good guy in a bad situation, but the point is not to overpay.

Edited by remkin

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Better be ready to trade him if the Canes decide he needs to spend time in the AHL because he's too good for that in his own mind.

 

Can I introduce you to Chris Terry?  I have to think Drouin is better than him (or probably about 6 or so currents Canes forwards).

 

This team is in dire need of high end talent.  The staff needs to do its due diligence, but they do need to do it in this player's case.  To overlook him without looking into the issue is not the answer.

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The thing too is if Drouin got bad advice, or allowed himself to get caught up in it, and he realizes that he made a big mistake, and he's not a bad guy, he should work very hard to repair his rep w/ his new team. Further, guys do grow up, he's only 20.

 

I am not saying I am qualified to make this call. It has to be Francis and company, but if he passes, that is a lot of talent there.

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If he has the same agent as a few of our players I would assume we may already have an inside track to knowing about him.  Keep in mind we evaluated him during the same draft as Lindholm as it was a possibility we would have a chance to draft him then.  We should know a lot about him.

 

 

That Drouin may be an incorrigible prima donna is the risk. But things can be done to assess this risk. Talk with ex coaches, ex teammates, all kinds of contacts if not the guy himself. I don't think that has been his reputation,

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Better be ready to trade him if the Canes decide he needs to spend time in the AHL because he's too good for that in his own mind.

I believe we would be able to slot him somewhere in our high powered offense. In reading some of the articles about him many players say he is a good guy and that he really just wants to contribute. Again RF would need to do his due diligence. A concern would be does he search for another team when his contract is up,netting us only one year with him unless Ronnie is able to extend his contract.

Edited by slapshot02

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It'll really depend on the trade, if Stevie Y wants full value he can keep him in my opinion. 

 

So far he does. Rumored to have 7 offers that he has not taken.

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Better be ready to trade him if the Canes decide he needs to spend time in the AHL because he's too good for that in his own mind.

This is exactly the tire that needs kicking. The last thing this team needs is another Anton I'm-Too-Freakin'-Good-For-This-chuk.

 

Here's the problem: You can interview him and his ex coaches and anyone else you like, but none of them can answer the key question: What will he actually do in the moment? The fact that he (1) requested a trade as a 2nd-year player and (2) refused to play "because we thought a deal was close" -- I'm sorry, but the former is brash by any objective measure, while the latter simply isn't his (or his agent's) call. Until the deal is done and the organization tells you not to play, you play. Simple as that.

 

None of which is to say we can't bring him in. But IMO, the circumstances just detailed and just plain protecting the organization's best interests more than justify a modified bridge deal: A one-year deal after his entry-level is up, a two-year deal after that. If all goes well, we can talk long term. He'll only be 24. You make clear that this is how it has to be RIGHT NOW, and if there's any hesitation, the meeting is over. 

 

If Drouin or his agent are not considerate enough of the organization's interests to recognize that this little soap opera of theirs warrants the org to be prudent, we probably don't want to be in business with them anyway. And if Yzerman won't let us to talk to both of them first, that probably tells us all we need to know.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I would absolutely kick the tires,inflate them and rotate them if that is what it takes. Not sure what it would take. I'd make many multiple combinations available to make it happen. I have changed my opinion on taking a chance on him. These opportunities don't come along often. I would think the kid would be happy getting to play full time and with a team of youth that is growing. Players worth offering could be Liles, Wisniewski, Murphy, Hainsey, Gerbe,Terry, Michal Jordan,Nestrasil,Nordstrom. I understand some of the Dmen are left shot but I threw them in anyway. Let's not forget putting Eric on the list. I'm wondering if Ronnie is also thinking of keeping Staal at 6 mil and adding more offense to the line, I know, I know.

 

 

So that is my case for at least kicking the tires on an elite talent, #3 overall pick who has already put in over two years of development and could be right on the cusp of really delivering big time for years to come.

 

 

Why would Tampa want Eric?

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Why would Tampa want Eric?

It would be a cap dump, because the perception initially was the team that traded for Drouin would have to take Matt Carle's 5.5mil contract. Seeing as Staal's value is diminishing, it wouldn't be a bad deal. I think if Eric showed up in Tampa, they could do damage in the playoffs

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I saw a tweet that last night Lindy became the youngest player in NHL history to score on a penalty shot. NICE!

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I saw a tweet that last night Lindy became the youngest player in NHL history to score on a penalty shot. NICE!

 

Pretty sure on tv they said he was the youngest for the franchise, not so sure about the entire NHL . . .

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Pretty sure on tv they said he was the youngest for the franchise, not so sure about the entire NHL . . .

 

If i saw it correctly, which i may not have because i just happened to catch it right before it disappeared, it said he was the youngest Swede to score a penalty shot goal.

Edited by realmdrakkar

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