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OBXer

2015/16 In-Season Talk

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On a more positive vibe....

 

The Checkers are off to a hot start and look to have a pretty good team this year.

 

There is that.

 

Oh, and Nordstram hurt, Canes calling up a forward, per Chip.

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I believe in Coach Peter's dream of being a better team but with the players we have, not going to happen. E.Staal asking for $9mil per year? Get real! You may be worth $3.5 if you were on the 3rd line! J.Staal cannot seem to find where he's suppose to be either.

 

 

The question to me is not what he will ask or be offered but are we as a team comfortable moving forward with E as the centerpiece.

 

Mike Maniscalco @mikemaniscalco 44m44 minutes ago

The @NHLCanes captain Eric Staal's contract is a hot take around the #NHL. He told me that he was never asking for $9 million extension.

 

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Last night wasn't good, top-to-bottom.  We know the defense is work in progress, but BP really needs to stop shuffling the forwards around in search of something.  IMO it is leading to individualistic play, total lack of chemistry between any pair of players, and perhaps loss of confidence due to uncertainty.

 

I could be wrong and this is just one big experiment by BP for some future vision, or a quest for finding out who can play his system,  If I am wrong, then the guys is a frickin genius. Meanwhile, there will be lots of pain for everybody as witnessed last night.

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Hi OBXer, reading back thru after my post, you posit "are we saying Peters has lost the locker room after just 3 games". I don't consider you are directing that at me, but just curious, because if so, the answer is NO, I think Peters is the real deal. Players on the other hand, save for a few, meh.

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slowly recovering from my stroke.  i do not have the energy nor the finances for a full season ticket package.  I may be looking at an 11 package.  From the first three games, why should I invest my limited resources in such a deal?

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Hi OBXer, reading back thru after my post, you posit "are we saying Peters has lost the locker room after just 3 games". I don't consider you are directing that at me, but just curious, because if so, the answer is NO, I think Peters is the real deal. Players on the other hand, save for a few, meh.

 

 

Not at all directed at you or anyone in particular. There were just so many posts about our lazy play and a couple on Peters coaching. The observations are all valid IMO but as a group seem to call into question players work ethic and attitude.   If that is the case that is a coaching problem.  I was just curious if we as a collective are saying Peters has lost the room after only three games. Players aren't responding to the message.

 

I don't think he has lost the room but if that was the case the only solution IMO is to trade or demote someone now.

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I felt bad for Jordan last night.  It appears he can't perform on his off side, so he gets a break. I mean, he really struggled.  I'm anxious to see the replay of the game and see if that was mentioned in the telecast.

 

It was mentioned during the broadcast to some degree, and I said the same thing in the GDT. He was brutal and playing on his off-side is obviously affecting him. This needs to be addressed.

 

Would anyone object to having 3 A's at this point instead of a C and 2 A's?  Faulk, Skinner and...

When handing out "A"s, Skinner would be at the back of the line. Then again, finding three players deserving of being even alternate captains on this team would be difficult.

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I don't know if Peters has lost the room, or mabye, he never had the room. The team seems to still be making the same mistakes over and over. I don't know if that is a product of poor coaching or bad players. It just seems like things should be getting better.It's very frustrating to think that it has been six years since the playoffs, and the return isn't likely to be any time soon.

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Based on their current salaries, stages of development, potential (I know, I know...), and the need for back-end experience, and because each is at least trying more often than not to play Peters' system, I'd keep the following:

Gerbs, Rask, Lindy, Faulk, Hanifin, Malone, Nesty, Skinner, Hainsey, Liles, both goalkeepers.

 

Based on their current salaries, ages/production, serially unrealized potential (!), and our need to get something for them before they are completely worthless, I'd deal the following: Everyone else.

 

Get back whatever you can, fill in the rest with prospects, and get the top draft pick next spring.

 

RF needs to be on the phone now. The clock is ticking on Hanifin. Three years from now he will decide whether he wants to stay here. In three GAMES, he has already has reason to wonder.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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This team could still gel. They could still surprise. It is going to take ten games or so before we know for sure. Honestly, like most of you I haven't seen a reason to be optimistic yet. I keep reminding myself we are in a second season of a rebuild. If our management wants to call it a retool so be it, but this is a full on rebuild and that takes time. You don't change everything in a season or two but over three to five years.

 

I do want to see improvement and so far I haven't. Patience, I mumble.

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So I took a look at 2014/15 Season thread for giggles to see what we were saying last year.  Found this from Remkin on 10/15/14:

 

"OBXER WROTE:

 

What we are seeing right now is what a team looks like in a total rebuild. On Tuesday night we will get to see it on both sides of the red line. But it could make for an exciting game.

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking of posting after two periods of last night's game. Then they came back and took the punch line away.

 

But if you go back and just watch the first two periods of that game last night, think: "You want to trade both Staals? You want to trade Skinner? OK, but this is the hockey you will be watching for at least one or two years." And that was against a team that I would put money on finishing in last, that had played the night before."

 

My comment now:

Not much changed.  We can keep on saying one or two years, I guess.....

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So I took a look at 2014/15 Season thread for giggles to see what we were saying last year.  Found this from Remkin on 10/15/14:

 

"OBXER WROTE:

 

What we are seeing right now is what a team looks like in a total rebuild. On Tuesday night we will get to see it on both sides of the red line. But it could make for an exciting game.

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking of posting after two periods of last night's game. Then they came back and took the punch line away.

 

But if you go back and just watch the first two periods of that game last night, think: "You want to trade both Staals? You want to trade Skinner? OK, but this is the hockey you will be watching for at least one or two years." And that was against a team that I would put money on finishing in last, that had played the night before."

 

My comment now:

Not much changed.  We can keep on saying one or two years, I guess.....

 

At least I'm consistent. Yup last year the rebuild began, this season it continues, can we complete and compete in three, I doubt it but we should be getting better.

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This team could still gel. They could still surprise. It is going to take ten games or so before we know for sure. Honestly, like most of you I haven't seen a reason to be optimistic yet. I keep reminding myself we are in a second season of a rebuild. If our management wants to call it a retool so be it, but this is a full on rebuild and that takes time. You don't change everything in a season or two but over three to five years.

 

I do want to see improvement and so far I haven't. Patience, I mumble.

Here's a poll question: It is really a rebuild if your franchise player is still on the team?

 

Projected results: 70/30 no.

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Here's a poll question: It is really a rebuild if your franchise player is still on the team?

 

Projected results: 70/30 no.

 

That would bring us to this season..year two of the rebuild. Is there an expiring contract coming due?

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I'd have to agree with Top to an extent.  A on-ice rebuild is what Buffalo did.

 

However, one could also reasonably argue that the changes in the front office\scouting\business operation is most certainly occurring.  And at a much faster pace.  I would consider this rebuilding.

 

And the moves this season haven't started yet, so.....maybe the roster rebuild is a little behind everything else.  I just can't see how the team continues down the road with familiar faces if this thing goes south before Thanksgiving.

 

Charlotte looks to be legit this year, and that's promising.

 

I understand that this is going to take time, but a lack of effort in a game, to actually win the game, well, I just can't sit back and not get a litle pissed. 

 

I'm better now though. B)

 

Hopefully, we can avoid last year and put something out there that resembles 60-minute hockey for at least a few games this month.  Ain't going to be easy, but not impossible.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I understand that this is going to take time, but a lack of effort in a game, to actually win the game, well, I just can't sit back and not get pissed.

 

I'm better now though. B)

 

I couldn't agree more.

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I'd have to agree with Top to an extent.  A on-ice rebuild is what Buffalo did.

 

However, one could also reasonably argue that the changes in the front office\scouting\business operation is most certainly occurring.  And at a much faster pace.  I would consider this rebuilding.

 

And the moves this season haven't started yet, so.....maybe the roster rebuild is a little behind everything else.

 

Charlotte looks to be legit this year, and that's promising.

 

I understand that this is going to take time, but a lack of effort in a game, to actually win the game, well, I just can't sit back and not get a litle pissed. 

 

I'm better now though. B)

 

Hopefully, we can avoid last year and put something out there that resembles 60-minute hockey for at least a few games this month.  Ain't going to be easy, but not impossible.

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

My hat's off to both of you. There's patience, and then there's you guys  :blink:

 

But where in previous seasons I'd say it's just my Philly coming out, it's official, my sh*t meter is full. The total lack of effort just drives me around the bend.

 

Good points on the rebuild. Maybe thinking of it happening org-first, roster last might help. I just really believed we'd get out of the gate by now, especially given how much better we looked in preseason (4-2 v. 2-5 a year ago).

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So I took a look at 2014/15 Season thread for giggles to see what we were saying last year.  Found this from Remkin on 10/15/14:

 

"OBXER WROTE:

 

What we are seeing right now is what a team looks like in a total rebuild. On Tuesday night we will get to see it on both sides of the red line. But it could make for an exciting game.

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking of posting after two periods of last night's game. Then they came back and took the punch line away.

 

But if you go back and just watch the first two periods of that game last night, think: "You want to trade both Staals? You want to trade Skinner? OK, but this is the hockey you will be watching for at least one or two years." And that was against a team that I would put money on finishing in last, that had played the night before."

 

My comment now:

Not much changed.  We can keep on saying one or two years, I guess.....

 

Funny you picked that quote Manwolf, because before I read it, I pretty much ranted on the other side of that question in the GDT just moments ago. If you want to see how time and events have colored my opinion on that very issue, just flip over there.

 

But I do stand behind that quote at that time (and even now in a sense). IF we could somehow trade both Staals and Skinner and got back picks and pieces, it will be ugly for a while. I know it is tempting to think "how could it be worse?". Last year we lost a bunch of 1 goal games, and had some runs. But if you take our top 3 forwards off an offensively challenged team, it will be much worse in the short run. No matter how bad things have gotten they have not hit laughing stock range yet. They probaly would if we do that.

 

So the question I asked was, "Are we ready for that?". This town that has seen no playoffs for so long that the building sits empty for some games. It was a legit question not even halfway into what would become the O for October (when I wrote it), and it is a legit question now too, (though I think the answer may be changing). As bad as this is, it will get worse before it gets better if we move our only chance at offense. Were we ready to commit to that just  few days into the season last year?

 

In hindsight, we probably should have, but...

 

Both Staals had and have NTC's which can not only block a trade, but lessen the return as the best deal can be blocked. My guess is that w/ J out w/ injury, E was not in the mood to allow a trade back then anyway.

 

Last year J broke his leg and Cam took October off, and Khudoben took the year off. That and both Staals have those pesky NTC's. So it seemed reasonable even this year, to give it one last chance.

 

But I will say this. There is a point where if you're going to be bad, be really bad. And while few would have consented to that at the very begiinning of last year, most probalby will now. Pull the Buffalo, get Jack Eichel (or Ausitin Matthews). Accumulate picks. Because that is the ONLY way this team will get elite talent in the rebuild mode. Elite UFA's don't go to bad teams with half empty buildings in small markets as a general rule. NHL historians will smirk at the Buffalo tank job of last year, but everyone else will see what they've done with the results. It worked. They will be very good for a long time pretty soon.

 

I really appreciate OBXer's level headedness, because this start is challenging mine. it is three games, but it is three games that have seemed to reveal all of the particular weaknesses that this team showed last year and even years past. I must continue to state that things can turn around. They do all the time in the NHL. But at this moment, the safe door that is our particular blend of weaknesses, remains locked.

 

So, as I put in the GDT. On the condition that Peters and the players cannot find the combination and the same problems persist, and we conintue down this path, there will be little choice. Every available chance has been given to the Staal squared experiment. There are none left. If this conitnues, GMRF has to do one of two things with E:

 

1. Sign E to a vastly reduced contract: say $6 million range with: a. NO NTC and b. an agreement that he will concede the captaincy at some point before next season if we miss the playoffs.

 

or

 

2. Trade Eric Staal.

 

It is difficult to imagine E going for #1, but in a reduced role, and tradeable, it is the only way that keeping E works for the team.

 

Probably will need to trade Ward also, but again, if Ward will sign a deal for say $3 million and no NTC, sign him.

 

Jordan? I really doubt we get anything for him with that contract.

Skinner? If he starts putting up numbers again, we could, but talk about needing to find an entire group of forwards. We would need to find some veteran forwards if we trade them all or we will be Edmonton East for a good while.

 

I'm not ready for that 3 games in, but I might be 15 games in....

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Rem! Your boy!!

 

I do like McGinn. I think he will be a solid NHL player. He is also the type of player we need in some ways. He is relentlessly physical and never takes a shift off. However, he is probably not ready to put the biscuit in the basket on a consistent basis in the NHL. Then again, who is?

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Based on their current salaries, stages of development, potential (I know, I know...), and the need for back-end experience, and because each is at least trying more often than not to play Peters' system, I'd keep the following:

Gerbs, Rask, Lindy, Faulk, Hanifin, Malone, Nesty, Skinner, Hainsey, Liles, both goalkeepers.

 

Based on their current salaries, ages/production, serially unrealized potential (!), and our need to get something for them before they are completely worthless, I'd deal the following: Everyone else.

 

Get back whatever you can, fill in the rest with prospects, and get the top draft pick next spring.

 

RF needs to be on the phone now. The clock is ticking on Hanifin. Three years from now he will decide whether he wants to stay here. In three GAMES, he has already has reason to wonder.

I mostly agree, although all of our talent is way over slotted. Based on a quality rebuild we are only a little over 50 % there. Going to take at least three to four more years before we are competitive.  Ideally we need to look like this but $'s are prohibitive.

 

New Guy-New Guy-New Guy

New Guy--Rask--New Guy

Skinner-Lindholm-Nestrasil

Gerbe-Nash-Versteeg

 

Hanifin-Faulk

New Guy-New Guy

New Guy-Hainsey

 

Lack-New Guy

Edited by slapshot02

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