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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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Hate to continue my role as naysayer, but despite 3 of a possible 4 points this weekend, the Hurricanes are 3 and 4 points behind the 3 teams in front of them, with every one of those teams once again holding 2 games in hand on the Hurricanes.  The cave,  Remember your failure at the cave.

 

Playoffs aren't happening for the Hurricanes this season.  Prepare for the future.

 

That's been my mantra for quite a while.  We are deceptively close to being in the playoffs, while realistically far away.

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Hate to continue my role as naysayer, but despite 3 of a possible 4 points this weekend, the Hurricanes are 3 and 4 points behind the 3 teams in front of them, with every one of those teams once again holding 2 games in hand on the Hurricanes.  The cave,  Remember your failure at the cave.

 

Playoffs aren't happening for the Hurricanes this season.  Prepare for the future.

 

It's not unreasonable for you to say that here.  I don't see how RF says that to the team quite yet, though. 

 

I've been pretty consistent as well. My position has been "odds are against us but it's not unrealistic".  It won't take much for me to switch to unrealistic, but I'm holding off based on not as much the 3 points this weekend as the way the team looked collecting them.  I honestly thought we looked like the better team both nights.  And that's without Faulk (although no Malkin kind of offsets that).  A loss to the Peg probably does it for me.

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I'm not trying to defend Eric Staal, but if you look at the forcefulness of the negative comments about him on the "trade Eric Staal" thread, (not in Raleigh last night), why on earth do the same people think some playoff contender would give us a 1st round draft choice or more for him? I guess the scouts on Stanley Cup contending teams are not as observant as many who post to this board.

I was at the game last night and enjoyed it more than about any game in 3 or 4 years. I almost felt sorry for Staal, because he was about the only player who did not have one or more big plays in the course of the game. Regrettably, at a time when the Canes need him to shine to raise his trade value, he has disappeared. At the same time, Jordan Staal, a favorite punching bag for the last couple of years, has perhaps become our best player. The next 2 weeks will be interesting. Eric's trade value may have dropped to the point that RF chooses to just keep him and deal with resigning him or not after the season.

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Looking on TSN site, they have a potential list of players moving by month's end:

 

Teams looking for some frontline help at the Trade Deadline this year are in luck, because there are a number of attractive forwards that could be available prior to February 29. 

Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun speculates the trade market is moving a little slow because there is such a glut of forwards that still has to figure itself out.

These are the names they have on their list:

Eric Staal
Andrew Ladd
Loui Eriksson
Mikkel Boedker
Scott Hartnell
Kyle Okposo
Jonathan Drouin
Jiri Hudler

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Interesting week of hockey starts tonight!! And no doubt by the end of it, the fate of the Canes may take shape.........

 

Monday night: DET/NYI   PIT/Fla  MTL/ARI  Tues night: PHI/NJD  WPG/CAR  BOS/CBJ  SJS/TBL  Thurs.night: WAS/NYI  PIT/DET  BOS/NSH  Fri night: NYI/NJD   ............................   

 

At least the Canes have made it close enough to score board watch for one more week......

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I'm not trying to defend Eric Staal, but if you look at the forcefulness of the negative comments about him on the "trade Eric Staal" thread, why on earth do the same people think some playoff contender would give us a 1st round draft choice or more for him? 

 

I don't think we get much back for Eric either, but what Eric brings back has never been an issue for me. Sometimes you just have to get a guy out of the room, and I think we reached that point with Eric right around the time BP joined the club.

 

He's chewing up TOI that other guys might convert to goals, and - while I'm squarely in the "playoffs are a long shot" camp - this team needs to learn to convert scoring chances on a reliable basis. We should be using the last couple months of the season to work on that with the roster we'll have next October, and I just don't see how anybody looking at his last 2-3 years can conclude that Eric Staal will help us achieve that.

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Looking on TSN site, they have a potential list of players moving by month's end:

 

Teams looking for some frontline help at the Trade Deadline this year are in luck, because there are a number of attractive forwards that could be available prior to February 29. 

Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun speculates the trade market is moving a little slow because there is such a glut of forwards that still has to figure itself out.

These are the names they have on their list:

Eric Staal

Andrew Ladd

Loui Eriksson

Mikkel Boedker

Scott Hartnell

Kyle Okposo

Jonathan Drouin

Jiri Hudler

 

That is a great point hopper. While I still think Eric will bring more than most, that is a list of guys who at least a few of them would draw more interest than Staal. While I do think it is time to part ways from an internal point of view, the right deal has probably not presented itself. While some may think Eric doesn't draw a first rounder, I do.Still, my guess is we haven't been offered that yet.

 

Francis should wait for the right deal, but also, while it could be very politically incorrect to trade Eric before the deadline with us still in the race, he definitely cannot trade Eric for a small return now. That would be too hard to explain. At least if the return is good it's not just the optics of dumping Eric.

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I can only imagine the second-guessing that will follow if GMRF doesn't trade away players not in the future plans (who would bring back valuable assets) and then the team fails to make the playoffs.

 

Stick with the plan, no detours.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I can only imagine the second-guessing that will follow if GMRF doesn't trade away players not in the future plans (who would bring back valuable assets) and then the team fails to make the playoffs.

 

Stick with the plan, no detours.

56990095.jpg

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I agree.

 

I also dont quite get the logic, that ES has been invisible often and not much of a help winning games increasingly.  He has looked sluggish at times which some have questioned may be a motivation thing.  Yet we need to be careful to hold him as long as possible until the last desperation of playoff hopes has faded?  What message does that send?

 

To me, the message is best effort every night every shift or go find another team to play for.  ES is not our future and I think he knows it.  Keeping him longer only prolongs the agony. 

 

Also, for those saying he may not get a 1st rounder, remember a team going into the playoffs will not be in the top of the first round with a draft pick traditionally.  So what you are really saying is "is Eric Staal worth a late or at best middle 1st round pick."  Late 1st round to a team trying to go deep into the playoffs - yes.  Middle 1st round for a team building that only has a 60% chance of making the playoffs? - probably not.

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Just to be clear I'm taking about timing on Eric.

 

If Francis trades Eric tomorrow for a third round pick, with time still to find a better deal and the team still in the playoffs that wouldn't be hard to explain?

 

He could be a day of the deadline deal or go today. I just think he cannot go early for a small return. If we get to the deadline, a lesser deal could make more sense.

 

If we get a first rounder or better, I pull the trigger now. Heck I wrote a page on it.

Edited by remkin

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I agree that the longer we wait the (potentially) better in terms of return. I even think a first-rounder isn't out of the question, especially if somebody on a clearly playoff-bound team goes down between now and the TD.

 

But I also wonder, when your captain, in a 6-3 win, doesn't take a shot all night, is the only guy in minus turf, and wins 5 of 16 face-offs, how does the whole "earn your spot" thing line up with that? To their credit, the rest of the guys have mostly ignored it and played well, and that's great.

 

Still, on a team already heavy with picks and having earned (if nothing else) the support of the org for the stretch drive it is trying to make right now (long as the odds might be) don't you also have consider the possible upsides in making his roster spot available? Let alone in affirming the priority on accountability that RF and BP have emphasized ever since they took over?

 

Send him to Pittsburgh. Let's move on. 

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Yes I agree with this.  What I wrote didn't read this way but it was my intent.

 

My point being I wouldn't risk keeping him on the team at all costs if he will go.  At the 11th hour if all we get is a 3rd rounder, I believe it best to let him leave.  Let someone else move up and evaluate them, and let them team begin its adjustment period without the distraction.

 

 

 

Just to be clear I'm taking about timing on Eric.

 

If Francis trades Eric tomorrow for a third round pick, with time still to find a better deal and the team still in the playoffs that wouldn't be hard to explain?

 

He could be a day of the deadline deal or go today. I just think he cannot go early for a small return. If we get to the deadline, a lesser deal could make more sense.

 

If we get a first rounder or better, I pull the trigger now. Heck I wrote a page on it.

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It is easy to say: "Canes out of playoffs, for sure."  I understand.  The deck is against them.

 

I'm also not saying: "Canes in the playoffs, for sure."  What is nice this year is at least it is interesting.

 

Of course I'd want it to be different.  I want the Canes to be in the catbird seat.  But there's improvement, and in the long term scheme of things, this is positive.  I doubt the Canes will make it, but at least there is a shot.

 

And that brings me to our Captain.  Captain needs to lead in the first two months.  I've seen nothing from this guy to help the team get out of the hole digging habit they have.  That is killing the team.  It killed it the last who-knows-how-many seasons, and it killed it this year.  We need a change.  A redo.  A restart on season starts.   

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That is a great point hopper. While I still think Eric will bring more than most, that is a list of guys who at least a few of them would draw more interest than Staal. While I do think it is time to part ways from an internal point of view, the right deal has probably not presented itself. While some may think Eric doesn't draw a first rounder, I do.Still, my guess is we haven't been offered that yet.

 

Francis should wait for the right deal, but also, while it could be very politically incorrect to trade Eric before the deadline with us still in the race, he definitely cannot trade Eric for a small return now. That would be too hard to explain. At least if the return is good it's not just the optics of dumping Eric.

 

Yea. The article on TSN was pretty good.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/trade-talk-leafs-could-target-tavares-down-the-line-1.437971

 

Here is a new one today.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/trade-talk-burrows-hasn-t-been-asked-to-waive-ntc-1.438185

 

They list the possibility of Andersen with the Ducks being the top goalie who maybe moving.

 

In looking at their possible forwards moving list, I wouldn't mind getting Ladd back. His style of play I think would fit with what Peters is looking for, but the price to get him would be high.

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The Canes currently have fantastic young prospects who are developing very well. I am excited to see these young players, performing at this level and truly improving.  However, we have Eric Staal, which we have waited too long to trade, and will not get much for him.  Great guy, but business and winning must mean something.  He has been a great attribute, but no longer performing for the money and talent he once had.  We have gaps in goal scoring category.  We will not make playoffs if we don't have some trades asap to sure up the scoring aspect.   At what point does coaches and management recognize we have a goal scoring problem.  One single game of a high score does not offset the consistent problem with scoring to have more Wins.  If there was dedication this year to making a run for the CUP, there would be trades by now.   Well so much for this year.   It's heart wrenching to see talent like Jordan S., and others go to wast while management sits by and just focuses their efforts in marketing to keep the cash flowing.  Did we forget what trades can do, when we won our first cup?  It was cruicial.   Always is !

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AGRAFF you make some good points but I doubt we are buyers at the trade deadline, at least not in a big way. Any trade has to make sense moving forward and giving up assets be they prospects or draft picks for a short term gain must be calculated very carefully. I won't even guess at this point what we might do but I expect we will make some moves.

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  One single game of a high score does not offset the consistent problem with scoring to have more Wins.  If there was dedication this year to making a run for the CUP, there would be trades by now.   Well so much for this year.   It's heart wrenching to see talent like Jordan S., and others go to wast while management sits by and just focuses their efforts in marketing to keep the cash flowing.  Did we forget what trades can do, when we won our first cup?  It was cruicial.   Always is !

 

RF was very clear that he was not promising or working to a CUP this year.  Jordan has to be part of the transition and maybe end in glory with the cup.  I don't think he is being wasted this year.  He is actually leading... unlike, well you know...  

 

This is a long term thing.  It is painful as hell.

 

And recall where this team was end of '05.  Quite a different position than end of '15.  You cannot compare the two years.  

Edited by wxray1

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All the E. Staal trade talk, it seems forgotten he's got a NTC. Who knows where his head is. Maybe....

A. He wants a fresh start, a chance at the cup with a contender, a new look with different guys to try and get back to old form and will waive his NTC

Or B. He wants to keep his family here, its been home for them for a long time, He wants to try and make the playoffs and win a cup with is brother, he's content taking a discount and trying his best here in Raleigh rather than shaking up his whole world and family by agreeing to a trade.

B seems more likely to me. I don't think he waives it, he finishes season here. Not much RF can do if he ssays he wants to stay.

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All the E. Staal trade talk, it seems forgotten he's got a NTC. Who knows where his head is. Maybe....

A. He wants a fresh start, a chance at the cup with a contender, a new look with different guys to try and get back to old form and will waive his NTC

Or B. He wants to keep his family here, its been home for them for a long time, He wants to try and make the playoffs and win a cup with is brother, he's content taking a discount and trying his best here in Raleigh rather than shaking up his whole world and family by agreeing to a trade.

B seems more likely to me. I don't think he waives it, he finishes season here. Not much RF can do if he ssays he wants to stay.

If Eric went to a contender his family wouldn't move before summer. Also, I'm pretty sure Eric has said he'd waive his NTC if the org asked him to.

 

If he chooses to block a move, Ron could make him a healthy scratch, making it Eric's choice: play somewhere else or get splinters here. I don't think either side will let this get ugly, but I also think that if RF feels like Eric is tying his hands, he'll do whatever he has to do.

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