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coastal_caniac

What's Happened to Elias Lindholm?

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Plain and simple, Lindholm has fallen off into an abyss it seems.

 

What's happened?  I was going to put this in the in-season thread but I know there are some Lindholm fans out there and I'd like to know what you think, and what's the fix, if anything.

 

I don't think he's a first round bust by any stretch, but I might be wrong.  Is he hurt?  Before last night he doesn't seem to be hampered with anything.  Seems more a combination of team sucktitude and confidence to me.  Maybe it's the line juggling?  Something else?

 

I have no idea, but I hate seeing this happen.  I wasn't as confident as some in point projections through the whole season, but I would have never bet he would be so absent in point production 18 games in.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Don't know whats wrong, but he's so young and talented we all hope it just clicks at some point.

 

Easy for me to say, but IMO he just needs to relax and play, but play hard.  Last night Eric tried to get him going when he came down the right side on one excellent opportunity.  He passed to Eric who returned it right back, but Elias seemed not ready and anticipated poorly.

 

On another rush he had a grade A chance to launch a wrist shot from in the house, but instead passed (I think backwards after going to half-boards).  Those plays seemed tentative and uncertain.

 

If he goes hard, then Eric and Jordan will find him.  Right now, he's out of synch with that line's game, but that can be fixed.

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He's young. As I mentioned in another thread, he's going through a sophmorish slump.

It doesn't help that the team has been floundering, adding even more pressure on himself to produce.

Surprised that his sticks aren't saw-dust from gripping them so hard.

He just needs to take a step back, chill and play. As Cam tries to do "HAVE FUN!"

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I think everyone who walks into this organization expects to lose it's what the Canes have become. We see it every night, some players shine through as having a decent game but because 15 other players didn't show up their efforts are ruined. Those players can shrug off those other players only but so long before it starts bringing them down to the level of "who gives a crap"

 

It's going to take the guys who aren't just saying they want to turn this around and take it personally to actually do it. I've yet to see anyone with that level of ownership. BP's doing his damndest to take a pack of losers and re-train them in the arts of winning the one goal games say that but until the ice turns and the guys start believing their capable of winning this is going to be ugly.

Edited by legend-1

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In 2 recent Forslund interviews, he has said, pretty bluntly, that Lindholm has not been consistent in his effort. JF says learning to give consistent effort is part of the maturation process, that Lindholm can grow out of this. Not sure who he can look to for veteran guidance on this team. I agree that the constant line changes are not helping him any either.

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I think it's two things: Sophomore slump (per hopper) and not playing consistently with Rask.

 

Forslund has made the same observation as S_D about putting your top six on the top two lines. If we did that, and based it totally on salary, have the following top lines:

 

Staal-Staal-Skinner

Versteeg-Rask-Lindy

 

Why would we not do that? It's not like we have anything to lose.

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It is a good question. Now he is more of a Junior than a sophomore this year, and it is all the more confusing and dissapointing because of that. Every player's development is different, but a lot of star players "get it" offensively by year three.

 

He put up .36 ppg (30 point pace) as an 18 y/o adjusting to the NHL and a smalller rink.

He put up .48 ppg (40 point pace) as a 19 y/o on a bad team last year.

He put up .11 ppg (9 point pace) as a 20 y/o this year.

 

Predicting a .60 ppg this year was hopeful, but not a crazy leap for a #5 pick that JR insisted we had ranked even higher.

 

Could it be that this guy, touted as a two way player, but laying down -14 and -23, both 2nd to last on the team, the last two years, has been told to work on his defensive game? He is "only" -7 despite not scoring.

 

I really don't know. But the past two years prove he has at least 40 point talent.

 

If we go full rebuild, maybe a Charlotte stint for him? Does he have to clear waivers?

Edited by remkin

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Or just maybe he has been overhyped/overrated to begin with.  Could have had Darnell Nurse (D Edmonton) who went after Lindholm or Max Domi (F Phoenix) who went 12th in the first round.  1st round picks picks are always about a 90% crap shoot regarding who will be all that and live up to the hype of being a 1st Rounder.  Lindholm was being compared to Peter Forsberg for awhile but that talk is long gone.  I say play him hard this season and next then decide, keep him or boot him.  Thats where we're at now with Skinner and I don't hear many people chirping about keeping him.

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The thing is that last year Lindholm put up 1 shy of 40 points as a 19 y.o. He actually did that. It was also a nice bump from the previous year.  If he were on say a 25 or 30 point pace now, it might be worse in a way, because then one could think he's a perpetual third liner who overpeformed last year.

 

But the pace he is on now just doesn't make sense. Does not compute that he would be this bad even if he were a bust. (I do get the Semin thing because it didn't make sense w/ him being that bad either).

 

Players go through slumps.

 

The Forsberg I would caution us about is not Peter, but Filip. Taken the year before Lindholm by the Caps, who after he played one year in Sweden traded him for what ended up amounting to almost nothing to Nashville, where he put up 63 points last year, and 54 point pace so far this year.

 

It's not completely analogous, but the point is that while value is low and he is way below his true ability, whatever that is, we surely don't want to trade him. Have to stick with it.

 

Can he be sent to Charlotte? Seems to help a lot of guys to do that. So long has he doesn't have to clear waivers, and when GMRF has finally decided to pull the plug on this team, it might help.

Edited by remkin

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If I read the waiver process correctly, the cutoff is 160 games and right now, Lindy is at 157. I think he could be sent down to Charlotte. I'm not arguing for that, just that it could be done. Handling a young player is tough.

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I don't think there's any question about his ability and potential. It is hard to overstate the aggregate effect of being slotted as a top-six guy way too soon, and I think we're seeing the fallout now.

 

If the org sticks with its plan to build through the draft, the day will come when forwards start on the third or fourth line no matter who they are and work their way up the ladder. This assures that understanding what it means to be defensively responsible at the NHL level is part and parcel of their development. 

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Thanks Super Dave. So the window is closing on that move pretty soon.

 

Seems like a lot of guys benefit from a clear cut limited assignment there to find their game. Say, "We're sending you down for 8-10 games. Work on some stuff at a slightly slower paced game, with less pressure. Come back and finish the year in Raleigh".

 

Hard to do if the team is desperate for scoring and you have that ability though....

 

Far be it from me to know if it would be smart, but if it might be, I'd probably consider it after two more games unless we win them or Lindy breaks out.

Edited by remkin

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Seems kind of late to me to actually fix anything by sending Lindholm to Charlotte.

 

I'm more inclined to go with Legend and Top, little too much too soon.

 

I have no fix or answer, but I've always liked Rask and Lindholm together and what happened to Bill Peters approach to keeping "guys paired together"?

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Probably too late, but there is talk of how a game in the press box can help, and sometimes that some AHL time helps too. Not only to let the kid that got it all right away to see how the other half lives, but to let him play on a top line w/ a slightly slower speed, and slightly slower goalies.

 

I don't know really. I'm kind of grasping at straws, but he's only 20 and most guys are trying to just get out of the AHL at that age anyways.

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Be an opposing coach.  

 

Who on the Canes scares you?  You literally can focus on Skinner/Lindy/Staal/Staal and that is all you have to game plan for.

 

I think the woes of all the "elite forwards" on this team have a lot more to do with the lack of any difficulty to come up with a game plan to stop our few threats.

 

This is also why guys appear to have a career rejuvenation any time they leave the Canes.   When they have better talent around them, they don't have game plans squarely focused on them.

 

 

The penalty for not spending to the cap hits you over and over again, relentlessly.

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Playing the Hurricanes has always been sure-fire for getting the opposition out of their slumps or getting their firsts - why not just loan Lindholm to the Leafs tonight?  He'll net a hat-trick, and then he can carry that momentum into Sunday against the Kings...

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Be an opposing coach.  

 

Who on the Canes scares you?  You literally can focus on Skinner/Lindy/Staal/Staal and that is all you have to game plan for.

.  .  .

The penalty for not spending to the cap hits you over and over again, relentlessly.

 

At this point, If you're talking about generating offense, mostly Versteeg, maybe E Staal (more from a "power" perspective than a "skills" one), and I'm aware that Skinner has the skillset to generate offense even if he hasn't so far this year. Other than that, not too much.

 

This is a sore spot for me because I've wanted us to pick up at least one more "value" UFA for both of the past 2 offseasons.  Don't know if the reason we didn't was due more to GMRF or PK (I'm not buying that we couldn't get anyone that might have helped to come here)

Edited by LakeLivin

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This is a sore spot for me because I've wanted us to pick up at least one more "value" UFA for both of the past 2 offseasons.  Don't know if the reason we didn't was due more to GMRF or PK (I'm not buying that we couldn't get anyone that might have helped to come here)

:applaud:  :applaud:  :applaud:

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Or save the money and when this team's ready to turn a corner make a splash in UFA for a player that's actually worth it rather then a guy no one wants who just happens to be a 2nd liner on our team but he's really a 4th liner anywhere else.

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Or save the money and when this team's ready to turn a corner make a splash in UFA for a player that's actually worth it rather then a guy no one wants who just happens to be a 2nd liner on our team but he's really a 4th liner anywhere else.

 

 

Ditto Legend.

Let's get a skeleton of a team that can win first before wasting any more slots on worthless players that are washed up or overslotted.

 

Yeah guys, that's the ticket, we wanted to add worthless players and waste money. :rolleyes:

 

Your premise seems to be that all UFAs who are available at a less than exorbitant price are worthless?

 

Lee Stempniak (a right wing, which we're desperately short of) signed a 1 year deal for $850k and he had to try out with the Devils. He's got 4g and 15pts so far (a points total better than any Hurricane).

 

Brad Boyes, another RW, signed with the Leafs for $700k, also after a tryout,  He's been playing at around a 0.50ppg pace the past several years.  Where would that rank on the current Canes roster?

 

It would be different if we were so deep that we didn't have available slots. I'd argue that we're the opposite.  How many forwards have we got that could rotate between Charlotte and Raleigh if needed without much of a waiver claim risk? Remember, if an NHL team makes a waiver pickup they've got to retain him. Are we really afraid of someone claiming Chris Terry? What about Nash? Or even Malone? 

 

We've got over $8m in salary cap available and we're talking about a 1 year deal, not a long term contract that would handcuff the franchise down the road.  But you want to wait until we turn things around before investing in depth at forward?  Seems to me like that's backward, but I could be wrong.  I've been so before and I will be again.  :)

 

edit: I'd also point out that we aren't last year's Sabres or Yotes.  This team has been mostly competitive.  Keeping in mind the domino effect, how much of a difference might one more forward have made up to this point?  (rhetorical question, none of us really knows)

Edited by LakeLivin

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First, signing another "value" contract wasn't going to happen.  Francis said it publicly through Chip.  We were at our internal budget and nobody else was going to be joining the team regardless of cap space. So that frustration Lake, should be towards PK, not Francis.

 

We are stuck with the value players we have who are mainly worthless going forward.  Terry, Liles, Hainsey, Gerbe, Nash, Jordan, to name a few.  Throwing a few more million at a Boyes or Stempniak - maybe it would have helped.  But you still have the other guys who mostly aren't very good relative to the league, high paid vets who can't finish, so I really doubt it. 

 

Value shopping has been a meme of this team for years.  Without something to add value to, the results seem to play out the same. :rolleyes:

 

This Canes have had an internal budget since it arrived in Raleigh, mostly around 70-80% of the Cap on average with the exception of a couple of years when JR got PK bombed and stole his checkbook.

 

Maybe we should take this over to the in-season thread, since this one is about Lindholm.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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