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top-shelf-1

The Great Cam Ward Debate Thread: Re-sign? Trade?

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I honestly feel that Ward was being "showcased" for a possible trade down the line.  That tactic is a double edged sword, and all his warts have shown.  I honestly don't feel that he has much if any value now.  Time to give Lacko Taco a ride and see what happens.  We need to know how he handles a steady workload here.

The one piece that another GM may value is Ward's capacity to get focused when the stakes are high. He unquestionably did that in 06 and we rode him to the conference final in 09. Ancient history, true, but RF can also point to numerous occasions where his work kept us in games and we didn't provide run support. In short, the "change of scenery" sales pitch. It might work and it might not, but it's all we've got.

 

Others have mentioned injury situations, and (unfortunately, but perhaps fortunately for us) those nearly always crop up in the second half, as workload begins to catch up with keepers. So, more "time will tell," but a couple of possibilities for others seeing value in Cam. 

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From some tidbits I've read (sorry no links) Lack may not be comfortable with Marcoux's desire to have him challenge the shooter more.  Basically, Lack said that coming out into the white too often get's him in trouble and doesn't play to his strengths.

 

This may be nothing at all, but it's not good to hear there is some disagreement among coach and player.

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Well, the futility in this argument is the obvious one - his contract expires before next year and the year after that.  If he were signed through those years, this would be mere water cooler chatter.  But he isn't, so we can't just coast through.  And is Francis going to extend him 2 more years at his current $6.3M clip in order to keep him?  If he does, then this team fully deserves the sub-.900 play they'll likely get from him.

 

 

 

 

Great post, rem.  I still stand by my $3M number, but that's the only place i disagree.

I concur with the 3 mil figure. At 2 mil we are basically telling him he is the number 2 goalie behind Lack. Not sure he can live with being paid less than Lack. With that said we need to give Lack a long stretch of games to see what he's got. He can't be expected to come off the bench once a month and perform like King Henri.

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http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl-news/4656963-top-nhl-goaltenders-contract-cap-hit-jonathan-quick-corey-crawford-ben-bishop

 

One view that counsels tapping the breaks on paying #1 goalies. I would think we, of all teams would want to read this.

 

It's a thought I've had many times when you look at who the recent SC winners have been.  They aren't spending money between the pipes.

 

It's also another reason why you don't pay Cam $3M a year to be a glorified backup.  No need to re-up a bad choice because you don't have a good choice.  Throw a dart.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Hope Smoke: Nick Kypreos said that the Maple Leafs are trying hard to find an elite goalie either through trade or by drafting one.

 

 

Don't suppose they consider Ward an "elite goalie"?

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Hope Smoke: Nick Kypreos said that the Maple Leafs are trying hard to find an elite goalie either through trade or by drafting one.

 

 

Don't suppose they consider Ward an "elite goalie"?

 

I think they'd consider Johnny Graham an elite goalie.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Perhaps that's why we extended Lack so quickly. Ronnie may not overextend himself or extend himself at all with Ward.

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I think both Cam and Eric were very likely told in camp, "You guys are our leaders. Lead us to a playoff spot by Thanksgiving and we'll talk. Otherwise..."

Edited by top-shelf-1

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It's a thought I've had many times when you look at who the recent SC winners have been.  They aren't spending money between the pipes.

 

It's also another reason why you don't pay Cam $3M a year to be a glorified backup.  No need to re-up a bad choice because you don't have a good choice.  Throw a dart.

Is this sarcasm? Crawford 6.5 million, Quick 7 million, Rask 7.5 million, and that covers your Cup winners over the past five years.

 

Just sayin'.

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Is this sarcasm? Crawford 6.5 million, Quick 7 million, Rask 7.5 million, and that covers your Cup winners over the past five years.

 

Just sayin'.

Read the article and get back with me. Those guys were rewarded after they won the Cup, and those contracts have put a stranglehold on the finances.

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Read the article and get back with me. Those guys were rewarded after they won the Cup, and those contracts have put a stranglehold on the finances.

Both Crawford and Quick have twice as many rings as Cam, and both earned the second AFTER getting their "reward."

 

The article's statistical analysis is all well and good, but human nature always trumps stats. Players who win championships are going to want to get paid, and until owners are willing to say "no," they'll have nobody but themselves to blame for the cap problems that this article tries (unconvincingly) to pin completely on goalie pay.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Judging by how slow Lack was tonight to get from point A to point B keeping the smallest amount of room to have to move would likely be best for him but doesn't quite make a great goalie either.

 

He got smoked twice tonight in side to side movement. He might not have been able to stop them even if his body was in a photo finish to the puck, but Lack was still stuck in the starting gate when the race ended.

 

For a 6'4 goalie who when he goes down should darn near cover post to post his slow movement tonight was eye opening to say the least.

 

From some tidbits I've read (sorry no links) Lack may not be comfortable with Marcoux's desire to have him challenge the shooter more.  Basically, Lack said that coming out into the white too often get's him in trouble and doesn't play to his strengths.

 

This may be nothing at all, but it's not good to hear there is some disagreement among coach and player.

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One of the toughest job's in hockey is that of a backup goalie. Eddie did not look good but I still want a bigger sample size. Let's give him more work and see if he can get in any kind of groove. He just didn't look fluid at all, more like a stiff goalie who's been riding pine all year. Maybe eat less Taco's to improve mobility.

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One of the toughest job's in hockey is that of a backup goalie. Eddie did not look good but I still want a bigger sample size. Let's give him more work and see if he can get in any kind of groove. He just didn't look fluid at all, more like a stiff goalie who's been riding pine all year. Maybe eat less Taco's to improve mobility.

Agree completely. This season is toast barring a miracle run, so we've got nothing to lose at this point. Maybe Lack is the Canes' goaltending future and maybe he's not, but at 27 he should be in his prime. Let him get in his groove and let's find out. The sooner we know, the better. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Both Crawford and Quick have twice as many rings as Cam, and both earned the second AFTER getting their "reward."

 

The article's statistical analysis is all well and good, but human nature always trumps stats. Players who win championships are going to want to get paid, and until owners are willing to say "no," they'll have nobody but themselves to blame for the cap problems that this article tries (unconvincingly) to pin completely on goalie pay.

Other than King Henry in NY, what other goalie has had a top 5 goalie level of play consistently over a long term, high dollar deal? That's the real issue in my mind. In recent history, goalies are more likely to hit that level only for a year or two and then they come back to the pack. Tie up big dollars in a goalie on a lengthy deal, and then it's likely that you have an average $6m player.

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Other than King Henry in NY, what other goalie has had a top 5 goalie level of play consistently over a long term, high dollar deal? That's the real issue in my mind. In recent history, goalies are more likely to hit that level only for a year or two and then they come back to the pack. Tie up big dollars in a goalie on a lengthy deal, and then it's likely that you have an average $6m player.

The Canes would love to have an "average" 6m dollar player.

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Guys, I'm for keeping Cam at this point.  Lack is NOT the answer, and I doubt we have anyone in the system who's ready to go...or will be in the next few years. 

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Guys, I'm for keeping Cam at this point.  Lack is NOT the answer, and I doubt we have anyone in the system who's ready to go...or will be in the next few years. 

 

So Ward has shown that he is the answer?  I'm confused.

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He's putting out a better effort thus far than Lack has...and it's not even close...which is sad, considering how badly we suck right now.  And since we can't dump them BOTH...

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I would argue that Ward is definitely not the answer, considering this has been an ongoing theme and discussion for several seasons now.  Lack needs more of a look than he has had so far to even make a decision.  Ward's last 2 efforts were absolute stinkers.  We aren't fighting for playoff positioning.  Let's evaluate everybody.

 

Again, I'm not a Cam hater and have defended his results for years as a result of team play (or lack thereof).  His contract is coming to an end, and that is the time to do some soul searching and make decisions for the future.  Don't stay in a bad relationship because you are afraid of not having a date for New Year's Eve.

 

It's always amazing to me how many people want "change", but don't want to change anything.

Edited by super_dave_1

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