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But I'm also confident that RF isn't just ignoring it when one of his top players is saying there are issues. Because I think Ronnie is smarter than that.

 

Yes.

 

And didn't RF hint -- or actually confirm -- that there are some unresolved "things" with J?

 

It is getting fuzzy, but I seem to recall that what RF said was just as disturbing, if not more, than J's wishy-washiness.

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Non-answer. The question was: why WOULDN'T he simply say "full speed ahead"? 

 

I'm really not trying to push buttons or drag this out, Lake. But the guy has been in the league for 10 years. He's made two deep playoff runs. He's got a ring. He said himself that he knew there was a chance Eric would leave. He said himself that he is a professional and he has his own contract. He said himself "this is a business, I understand that." Really? So why are you raising doubts at all - let alone doing it in the media - if you truly have every intention of playing here next season?

 

And that's my point. He's sown doubt. RF's job now is to get an answer out of him, one way or the other. Doing so not only allows the org to move forward but also spreads the word: There's real management in Carolina. Do your job and uphold your contract and you'll be fine. Eff around with them and you'll be looking for work. 

 

top, language is a very imprecise thing open to different interpretation by different people. It's clear what you needed to hear in order to allay any concerns you have and that Jordan didn't deliver that.  But who knows what Jordan's full intent was?  Even if he's 100% committed to the Canes, might he have been sensitive to not appearing to be totally indifferent to his brother for his brother's sake?

 

btw, I'm in agreement with your last paragraph.  I'd point out that clearly he's sown a lot of doubt in your mind.  Not nearly as much in my mind.  RF?  We don't know,  but I'm in complete agreement with you that RF will effectively handle it to the best interest of the Canes.

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There are so many things that could be going through Staal's mind. It's probably pointless to speculate but I will anyway!

He may have an issue with the fact that the team was so close but then traded away a top six forward, who was also the team's captain and, by the way, his brother. It's entirely possible he is as concerned with the direction of the team (whether they are doubling down on the rebuild or whether Francis will add some veterans to try and move the team forward next year to continue the progression towards a contending team). I wouldn't discount the possibility that Jordan just wants to be sure this team is committed to continuing to improve and it's as much a hockey thing as it is a family thing for him.

Just my two cents.

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There are so many things that could be going through Staal's mind. It's probably pointless to speculate but I will anyway!

He may have an issue with the fact that the team was so close but then traded away a top six forward, who was also the team's captain and, by the way, his brother. It's entirely possible he is as concerned with the direction of the team (whether they are doubling down on the rebuild or whether Francis will add some veterans to try and move the team forward next year to continue the progression towards a contending team). I wouldn't discount the possibility that Jordan just wants to be sure this team is committed to continuing to improve and it's as much a hockey thing as it is a family thing for him.

Just my two cents.

Good points all, CaliCane. But I will say, your first two points aren't any of Jordan's business, in terms of his role with the team. In fact, a strong argument can be made that the third point isn't his business either. 

 

Jordan is UNDER CONTRACT. That means he agreed to do a job for x amount of time for x amount of money. His contract is not as GM; it is as a player. Until he used the phrase "unresolved issues" this week, I was pretty confident whatever his "concerns" were after the season ended would work themselves out. But it's now two weeks later, and that phrase is a loaded one--especially coming from a guy (at the risk of beating a dead horse here!) who is UNDER CONTRACT. 

 

By definition and by contract, Jordan's job now is to take some downtime, prepare for next season, and be ready to rock and roll when training camp gets started. By even floating the idea that he has some lingering doubt, HE gave rise to the questions I and others are now asking. And by confirming that he was "giving Jordan some time" before doing his exit interview, RF suggested these are weighing on J's mind.

 

You are right, we can't know what they are. But I'm really not interested in that. He's under contract, and nobody held him at gunpoint to sign it. Play or move on, but let us know--so we can focus on the WHOLE team. 

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Top, I don't think you're doing it intentionally. But to me, the strength of some of your responses makes me wonder if you're actually open to the possibility that there might not be much there.

  • [your suggested response from RF]: "Oh, for crying out loud. You want dad to coach you, too? This isn't bantams, Jordan. Grow up or waive your NTC. We're trying to build something here, and if you're not 100 percent in, tell me now."
  • "My big brother is gone! Waaaaaaah!" 

And later, from another poster:  "If he is having a fit because his brother is no longer here arrange for a trade." Now maybe that's totally unrelated to your speculation. But is it possible that seed was subconsciously planted by your original speculation?  Even Dinz may not know for sure.  And that's my problem with speculating so much about worst case scenarios that involve someone's character.

What you talking about  Willis? :)

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I totally agree. He's an adult and he has an obligation to perform. But as a fan, I'd rather the team move on if he can't be professional and put 100% effort into fulfilling his contract. He doesn't seem like a guy who's going to sulk but I'm hoping Francis finds out now before he becomes disgruntled and the organization starts to get less than his best.

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I totally agree. He's an adult and he has an obligation to perform. But as a fan, I'd rather the team move on if he can't be professional and put 100% effort into fulfilling his contract. He doesn't seem like a guy who's going to sulk but I'm hoping Francis finds out now before he becomes disgruntled and the organization starts to get less than his best.

Thanks. This is all I've been trying to say. Clowntime ended when Eric left. If another player - Jordan or otherwise - is making comments that seed doubt after having had ample time to think things over, let's clear the air.

 

My hope? That the "unresolved issues" J is referring to are these, and that RF is the one who put them on the table:

 

(1) If you're not into it, I need to know.

(2) If you are, you will be expected to perform.

(3) See you in two weeks to get your answers.

 

Speculation happens when information coming from Edwards Mill Road is locked up and nobody knows where the key is. 

Ain't that the truth! I'd prefer having Canes playoff hockey to speculate on... but this is what we've got.

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IMO, looking at points for J. Staal doesn't capture his value to this team.  He also has more than 1/2 season of value over an extended period of time.

 

2014-2015 he was out until mid season.  The team's performance immediately improved when he returned.  His line mates? Dwyer and Gerbe.  That line was very effective on the forecheck and faced the opponent's top scoring line.  Sound familiar?

 

2015-2016 He gets line shuffle by Peters, along with everyone else, until December when he, Nesty and Nordy become an even more effective trio than Jordan, Dwyer, Gerbe.  That line becomes the anchor for the team's success.

 

The guy is a horse.  He plays the position right, always back in the defensive zone, and starts from there.  Watch him carry the puck through center ice and tell me where you replace that.  Oh, and then he's in the offensive zone - good luck gaining possession from him.

 

I think the comments here about stuff on the table are way overblown.  There are things they'll discuss, and there always are.  They'll talk, and we'll do what we do here.

Edited by Manwolf

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It just seems like a whole lot of "the sky is falling" over a couple of off hand comments.

J may not be ecstatic that E is gone, but we all deal with disappointment in life.

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The guy is a horse.  He plays the position right, always back in the defensive zone, and starts from there.  Watch him carry the puck through center ice and tell me where you replace that.  Oh, and then he's in the offensive zone - good luck gaining possession from him.

 

I think the comments here about stuff on the table are way overblown. 

I hope you are right about whatever "unresolved issues" that are on the table being, in the end, non-issues. 

 

I also agree that Jordan has played well in every situation he's been placed in, on a team clearly in transition since the day he arrived. Since he got a chance to settle in with regular line mates he has been a stud. I want Jordan back, and I want Jordan playing exactly as he did in the second half this season, for the rest of his contract.

 

Are the things that J and RF have alluded to nothing of consequence or could there be more to them? I don't know. But the comments are out there, so it's a topic which, IMO, is certainly discussion worthy. Given that we've got no Canes playoff hockey to talk about, the elements of the rebuild (or retool, or whatever we're NOT calling it this week) is what we DO have to discuss. Jordan's status on the team certainly qualifies as a key element.

 

I will continue to hope their comments amount to nothing. Time will tell. But until we know, I'll continue to advocate - just as we all did throughout the season and thru all the conjecture about trades and the TD and the status of our FAs - that RF sticks to the larger plan. To me, that means refusing to allow any one player's issues to override the larger objectives of the current team and, more broadly, the organization as a whole.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Maybe Jordan just wants to talk to RF about trading Faulk for a first-line forward...

 

:D  Ok, that's funny enough to avoid being a

 

stock-vector-cartoon-troll-holding-a-clu

Edited by LakeLivin

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Standard Disclaimer: I think that this all gets worked out, but can't help speculating.

 

I do agree that Francis needs to have a firm hand of leadership on the team. But this is not 1965. Players have to be given some reasonable consideration, especially players that you expect to really lead the team, at least on the ice. There is a Ying and Yang.

 

I fully get that it is highly probable from what I've heard and read, that particularly JR gave way to much Ying to Eric (and not enough Yang). The contract was the start of it, but it continued as one coach after another moved on while Eric stayed. I suspect that any sense of entitlement that Eric might have had was almost inevitable. Eric did not seem like the type of guy who was spoiled by nature in any way. To the contrary, he really seemed to always conduct himself professionally. But at some level, you can't help but get used to the deference you are getting, even if you never asked for it.

 

And so I postulate that there was really no way to move Eric on without some hard feelings. No matter that Eric agreed to go to play with his other brother, there was still a bandaid to rip off, and it still left a mark. Brother's talk. Sometimes things done to your family cause more upset than things done to yourself. It is just wild speculation here. Maybe Jordan just feels left behind in a small market with an empty arena and a rebuild in progress. But the thing is, it's hard to see that as "issues on the table", so I'm thinking maybe something about Eric is it.

 

Whatever the deal, I am in the group that firmly believes we are far better off w/ Jordan here than what we are likely to get in return, especially if he narrows the list of teams he'd go to. (Again, the NTC rears it's ugly head. Without it, Francis can tell Jordan, "we really want you here, but we can get you to Edmonton if you don't like it here." Or at least that possibility is always in the air affecting things to the team's advantage.)

 

Jordan was still an important piece of the puzzle before he started putting up points. But I cannot overstate what he was doing for at least 3 months from December through March. He was at near a ppg. That is rarefied air, especially these days. Only 7 players broke a ppg for the year (who played more than 2 games).

 

Just to put that in perspective, guys at around .84.-.9 ppg last year: Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Tarasenko, Koptiar, Cammalleri, Ovechkin, Tavares, Barkov, Krejci. Can Jordan keep that up? Maybe. He was close for his last two years in Pittsburgh.

 

So, if Jordan's offense slips back, he is still a rock solid #2 center. If he keeps the pace up from Dec-Mar, he is an All Star first line center (at least his numbers). Which guy would he draw return in a trade like? I think the scoring streak was too short for him to get that kind of monster return that the names on that list above would draw.

 

Plus, we need a center now (my opinion, not everyone's), but we would absolutely need a major top 6 center if we lose Jordan.

 

Plus, Jordan and Nestracil and Nordstrom allows us an amazingly effective line with Jordan plus two guys we picked up as A. Waivers B. a toss in on a trade. That get's us to scoring proficiency with fewer pick ups up front. Take Jordan off that line, and Nest/Nord may regress. Now you have more forwards to find to get to the same total effect.

 

 

 

So, hopefully, Francis listens, shows some empathy while being firm, works things out, and Jordan emerges finally saying the things we want to here.

Edited by remkin

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JR gave way to much Ying to Eric (and not enough Yang).

 

and all this time I had thought JR gave him too much Yen

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I think it is understandable that Jordan is disappointed that a long term future playing with Eric is apparently not in the cards. I don't read too much into RF saying he was giving Jordan some time and space to process the change.

Having said that, Jordan knows he cannot compel the Canes to trade him (see how that worked out for Drouin - it looks like being in Tampa may be just the right place for him after all). I will worry if he shows up in September and has his a** on his shoulders. I think he has too much class to do that. I am finally starting to feel we are building something here, and hopefully RF can make sure J sees it the same way.

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Having said that, Jordan knows he cannot compel the Canes to trade him (see how that worked out for Drouin - it looks like being in Tampa may be just the right place for him after all). I will worry if he shows up in September and has his a** on his shoulders. I think he has too much class to do that. I am finally starting to feel we are building something here, and hopefully RF can make sure J sees it the same way.

My feelings exactly, and I do think (hope) that what is on the table are things RF needs to address to ensure that any potential for discontent come training camp be pre-empted before even the off-season officially begins. This is what I've been referring to by saying it's important to know Jordan's intentions NOW. 

 

I hope you are right and that Jordan has enough class not to compel the Canes to trade him, but the fact is, we just don't know. Which, along with the cards he holds in any trade scenario, is the other reason to clear the air now. So I think RF has to say, "Jordan, if you have even a shred of doubt about wanting to be here, just say so now, and let's figure out what teams you're willing to go to."

 

If that seems harsh, so be it. Jordan is at his highest trade value since joining us. If he's not happy or doesn't think he can be, now's the time to do something about it, to sidestep any chance that his discontent becomes reflected in his play or locker room presence. Also - and I'm not saying this is what's happening, but neither is it far-fetched - in order to have our most effective dealmaking opportunities this off-season, we can't afford Jordan tying Eric's future in the NHL to his future here. If he is even thinking about a scenario under which he only stays if E comes back (bad), or one where, if E isn't picked up by the end of summer we will bring him back (worse), RF needs to disabuse him of that right. The heck. Now. 

 

Such scenarios are what I've been referring to when I say we can't allow J or the brothers together to manipulate the situation. Like Rem says, brothers talk. To assume Eric and Jordan aren't doing so, and specifically about Eric's future, is whistling past the graveyard. RF must - and I am confident he will - make clear that they don't get to dictate to the org the conditions under which Jordan stays. And that is why Jordan should, absolutely, be asked point-blank about his intentions, and encouraged to air any such ideas he/they might have cooked up RIGHT NOW (if indeed they have). Then RF can make very clear that the Eric era is over here, that for Jordan to remain he needs to accept it and commit to the team fully, and that - if he cannot do so - we'd rather find him a new home.

 

If Eric doesn't find a job elsewhere, how awkward would/could it be if he starts attending Jordan's home games? He would still live here, one would think. And how long would it take before those (clueless) Facebook Fans who were so incensed about his trade start "wondering why" we just don't re-sign him?

 

Maybe - hopefully - these are the very things RF plans to clear up, toot sweet. Maybe he put them on the table, not Jordan. I have to think RF's primary interest is assuring everybody can actually move on from Eric--because the fact that we're even having this discussion - and that both Jordan and RF have mentioned J's disappointment over Eric's departure - makes clear (to me at least) that so far, some have moved on only figuratively.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Read that Mark Morris is out as Checkers coach!! Wonder how that impacts our call ups for next year. Thought his brief tenure was a real bright spot for our team, both in Charlotte as well as here. Hope Ron locates someone equal to him to help our youngsters along?

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Good find, Kjun, buried as it was on the homepage. Sure seems to have caught the organization by surprise.

 

“We respect Mark’s decision to return home to coach at St. Lawrence,” said Francis. “We thank him for his work in Charlotte this season and wish him nothing but the best with the Saints.

 

Yeah, thanks a lot, Mark. Pfffft!

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Jordans becoming like a ripe boil on this forum. Can't wait to see it lanced.

 

Can't say I'm surprised by Mark Morriss's decision.  Coaching AHL is a tough gig.  Your best players are always getting yanked to fill out the big clubs roster when someone gets hurt yet wins and losses is still a big part of how your judged as a coach.  Now he gets to to coach at a prestigious hockey school and build his own program not the program of a pro hockey organization.

Edited by raleighcaniac

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Jordans becoming like a ripe boil on this forum. Can't wait to see it lanced.

 

The question is, how much of that is due to Jordan and how much due to the speculation on this forum? :P

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The question is, how much of that is due to Jordan and how much due to the speculation on this forum? :P

 

What, us speculate? I'm shocked and frankly appalled by that insinuation :omg: . That is just awful. Speculate. Sheesh.

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