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Because that's the Red Wings' job, for one thing, the original six team in that market, a market where Canada is only a bridge away.

 

Once the Whale moved here, appeared in the Final twice in five years and won a Cup, that was the time to complete the commitment. I love that the AHL affiliate is here. I love that hockey is here at all. But contrast what's been done to support and extend it, generationally, here with what's happened in TB - a place with plenty of transplants from "traditional" hockey markets, just like here - and it's night and day.

 

What do you mean, "that's the Red Wings' job"? If Karmanos decided to invest in the Detroit local amateur hockey infrastructure in the 1970s, then that means that the Red Wings chose not to for, oh, fifty years or more before that. Guess it really isn't the Red Wings' job, after all.

 

Nothing compels an NHL team owner to invest in the amateur hockey programs in the team's area. That Tampa Bay has done so is admirable.

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What do you mean, "that's the Red Wings' job"? If Karmanos decided to invest in the Detroit local amateur hockey infrastructure in the 1970s, then that means that the Red Wings chose not to for, oh, fifty years or more before that. Guess it really isn't the Red Wings' job, after all.

 

Nothing compels an NHL team owner to invest in the amateur hockey programs in the team's area. That Tampa Bay has done so is admirable.

Guess we have to agree to disagree on this one, Jon. I'll ignore the snark, but will add that if PK had moved his minor league infrastructure out of Detroit to here, it would have created a vacuum that Detroit could have either ignored or chosen to fill.

 

More important, it would have been a very clear signal to local leaders that PK was in it for the long haul here--and I gotta tell you, if I'm a local looking to invest in a team while giving someone else complete control, I want a VERY clear indication that he's in it for the long haul. Especially when we're talking about a guy who pulled out of his last market in the middle of the night and never said anything to anybody.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Guess we have to agree to disagree on this one, Jon. I'll ignore the snark, but will add that if PK had moved his minor league infrastructure out of Detroit to here, it would have created a vacuum that Detroit could have either ignored or chosen to fill.

 

More important, it would have been a very clear signal to local leaders that PK was in it for the long haul here--and I gotta tell you, if I'm a local looking to invest in a team while giving someone else complete control, I want a VERY clear indication that he's in it for the long haul. Especially when we're talking about a guy who pulled out of his last market in the middle of the night and never said anything to anybody.

 

I apologize for the snark, top. I'll blame it on having to read some of the stuff my nephew posts on Facebook. ;)

 

I took a look at the Raleigh Youth Hockey Association program document:

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.leagueathletics.com/Images/Club/3735/2016-17%20Program%20Details%20-%20FINAL%203-19-16-2.pdf

 

Interesting look at the cost of a single season of youth hockey, at least in the upper levels of traveling teams. It's over $10K a season for the players/families in the Tier I AAA U-18 Midgets. :blink: Makes me wonder how much Compuware is giving to the teams up in Detroit.

 

I'm not sure about the point you're arguing. Are you saying that, because Karmanos (or at least Karmanos via Compuware) invested in amateur hockey in Detroit, he should have invested in amateur hockey in the Triangle without doing so through CYAH/without the imprimatur of the Hurricanes?

 

It sure appears to me that Karmanos, through the Hurricanes and their Canes Youth and Amateur Hockey program, has invested in RYHA programs to the point that RYHA calls all of its traveling teams "Junior Hurricanes."

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Are you saying that, because Karmanos (or at least Karmanos via Compuware) invested in amateur hockey in Detroit, he should have invested in amateur hockey in the Triangle without doing so through CYAH/without the imprimatur of the Hurricanes?

Not at all--that, had PK taken the money he continued putting into youth and minor league hockey in Detroit and instead brought it here, in addition to the investment he was already making here, it would have jump-started hockey in this market. It also would have convinced more people he was fully committed to this market, which, as I've previously noted, is important when you've arrived as PK did here.

 

I don't decry the investment PK has made at all; I think his induction into the HHOF is much deserved and his overall contributions to hockey nothing short of stellar. But there's ample evidence that the long-term success of hockey in non-traditional markets relies on getting kids on the ice. The up-front investment is huge, but the return, in terms of engraining hockey fully in the community for generations, is equally undeniable.

 

If PK hadn't split his investment in developmental hockey between NC and Michigan - where, after all, hockey is fully engrained already - and had instead moved that entire investment here, it would have gone a long way toward engraining the expectation of NHL hockey here for generations to come. Just as important, it would have translated into a lot more money coming into the Hurricanes organization in the form of luxury box sales, etc., which, in turn, would have provided PK a much broader base of potential silent partners.

 

No worries on the snark. I avoid Facebook for that very reason.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Not at all--that, had PK taken the money he continued putting into youth and minor league hockey in Detroit and instead brought it here, in addition to the investment he was already making here, it would have jump-started hockey in this market. It also would have convinced more people he was fully committed to this market, which, as I've previously noted, is important when you've arrived as PK did here.

 

I don't decry the investment PK has made at all; I think his induction into the HHOF is much deserved and his overall contributions to hockey nothing short of stellar. But there's ample evidence that the long-term success of hockey in non-traditional markets relies on getting kids on the ice. The up-front investment is huge, but the return, in terms of engraining hockey fully in the community for generations, is equally undeniable.

 

If PK hadn't split his investment in developmental hockey between NC and Michigan - where, after all, hockey is fully engrained already - and had instead moved that entire investment here, it would have gone a long way toward engraining the expectation of NHL hockey here for generations to come. Just as important, it would have translated into a lot more money coming into the Hurricanes organization in the form of luxury box sales, etc., which, in turn, would have provided PK a much broader base of potential silent partners.

 

No worries on the snark. I avoid Facebook for that very reason.

 

 

there are a number of extremely wealthy individuals in the area.   could the problem be in Karmonos  wanting to maintain majority control

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there are a number of extremely wealthy individuals in the area.   could the problem be in Karmonos  wanting to maintain majority control

It absolutely could be; while I agree with JonKerfoot's earlier point about silent partners existing in business generally, I think they are far rarer in pro sports, just due to the nature of the beast. Sports fans are vocal, and team owners tend to be sports fans.

 

I think the biggest obstacle PK faces in finding investors is that this isn't a traditional hockey market, and it's compounded by the fact that he hasn't done the best job of currying favor with the local movers and shakers. In his defense, that is easier said than done. Many jokingly refer to Cary as standing for "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees." It's funny, but it also speaks to the insular nature that persists in the South--especially where Northerners are concerned.

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"Executive Vice President and General Manager of the National Hockey League’s Carolina Hurricanes, today announced that the team has agreed to terms on a three-year, entry-level contract with forward Sebastian Aho (AH-hoe). The deal will pay Aho $832,500 in the NHL or $70,000 in the American Hockey League (AHL) for all three seasons, and he receives a signing bonus of $277,500."

 

I'm not too familiar with ELCs but that seems very reasonable from the Canes perspective, especially the signing bonus. Almost like what he'd have gotten when he was drafted, before he really raised his stock over the past season? 

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Happy to have him inked. There wasn't much doubt but having him in our team pocket now allows RF to spend time inking some of our other RFA and FA.

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I hope he comes in with a 'splash' and embarrasses Elias Lindholm to the extent Elias digs deeper and plays with some bite in his game.

Couldn't have said it better, will just add that I hope he electrifies the whole roster.

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I'm not too familiar with ELCs but that seems very reasonable from the Canes perspective, especially the signing bonus. Almost like what he'd have gotten when he was drafted, before he really raised his stock over the past season? 

Including his signing bonus, he'll get the ELC max of 925k at the NHL level, per this source, which also reports that a signing bonus may not exceed 10 percent of salary, and is typically paid annually. That suggests we saved a little, i.e., we could have paid him $925k plus 10 percent of that figure, for a total of $1,017,500 NHL/year.

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He's not an electric eel, he's a Sea Bass. What are you talking about?

Now that he's joined the band, I took "bass" to mean one of those four-stringed electric guitars. On which he could play a popular tuna.

 

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Now that he's joined the band, I took "bass" to mean one of those four-stringed electric guitars. On which he could play a popular tuna.

 

 

You beat me to it, top! The ultimate compilations of fishy puns.... :lol:

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"Executive Vice President and General Manager of the National Hockey League’s Carolina Hurricanes, today announced that the team has agreed to terms on a three-year, entry-level contract with forward Sebastian Aho (AH-hoe). The deal will pay Aho $832,500 in the NHL or $70,000 in the American Hockey League (AHL) for all three seasons, and he receives a signing bonus of $277,500."

 

I'm not too familiar with ELCs but that seems very reasonable from the Canes perspective, especially the signing bonus. Almost like what he'd have gotten when he was drafted, before he really raised his stock over the past season? 

 

Okay, now that the Hurricanes have signed him to a contract, are they going to draft the *other* Sebastian Aho? If so, I suggest they spend a few bucks in the free agent market and sign Justin "No U" Falk - he's a UFA and his last contract cap hit was only $600K. :lol:

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Including his signing bonus, he'll get the ELC max of 925k at the NHL level, per this source, which also reports that a signing bonus may not exceed 10 percent of salary, and is typically paid annually. That suggests we saved a little, i.e., we could have paid him $925k plus 10 percent of that figure, for a total of $1,017,500 NHL/year.

 

I just took a look at McDavid's contract and he's eligible for up to $2.85m in performance bonuses each year.  But they aren't exactly everyday acheivements.  According to General Fanager Aho's contract doesn't include performance bonuses.

 

Connor McDavid performance bonuses each year:

Schedule A bonuses (max $850,000): $212,500 for any of the following achievements - top 6 forward on team in ice time (total or average per game, min 42GP), 20 goals, 35 assists, 60 points, 0.73 points per game (min 42GP), top 3 forward on team in +/- (min 42GP), All Rookie team, All Star game, All Star game MVP.

Schedule B bonuses (max $2,000,000): $2,000,000 for any of the following achievements - top 10 forward in the league in goals/assists/points/points per game (min 42GP), top 5 in league in Hart/Selke/Richard voting, NHL First or Second team all star.

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Usually I am very negative on here. But I will state the following: I have always liked Finns. Saraala on an ELC as well.

Edited by bluedevil58

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Usually I am very negative on here. But I will state the following: I have always liked Finns. Saraala on an ELC as well.

 

Finnish players seem to have made more impact in the NHL than their numbers (number of players as well as scoring "numbers") might otherwise suggest. Let's hope that Aho and Saarela adapt quickly and well to the NHL/AHL game.

 

I, for one, am happy the Hurricanes have them under contract.

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I just took a look at McDavid's contract and he's eligible for up to $2.85m in performance bonuses each year.  But they aren't exactly everyday acheivements.  According to General Fanager Aho's contract doesn't include performance bonuses.

 

Connor McDavid performance bonuses each year:

Schedule A bonuses (max $850,000): $212,500 for any of the following achievements - top 6 forward on team in ice time (total or average per game, min 42GP), 20 goals, 35 assists, 60 points, 0.73 points per game (min 42GP), top 3 forward on team in +/- (min 42GP), All Rookie team, All Star game, All Star game MVP.

Schedule B bonuses (max $2,000,000): $2,000,000 for any of the following achievements - top 10 forward in the league in goals/assists/points/points per game (min 42GP), top 5 in league in Hart/Selke/Richard voting, NHL First or Second team all star.

In case you didn't check, I did: Despite missing almost half the season, McDavid, who played 45 games, earned these schedule A bonuses:

- exceeded .73 PPG

- top 6 forward (team) in ATOI (he was #3)

- top 3 forward (team) in +/- (also #3)

If he makes the NHL All-Rookie team, which will be announced later this month - and isn't he a shoo-in? - he'll have attained the max Sch A bonus available, $212,500 for meeting/exceeding the standard in each four categories ($850k total).

 

On Schedule B, McD was 4th in the league in PPG, just above Crosby (the sweetness, in itself, of which is difficult to overstate). So he earned his $2 million Sch B bonus, too.

 

Not bad for half a season's work--and no "everyday achiever," for sure! 

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