Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
OBXer

2016 Off-Season Talk

Recommended Posts

Funny all the Chicago fans supposedly saying they won't miss TT now that he's gone. I came across a poll that PROPOSED trading Bickell and TT before it happened. Question:

 

Should the Blackhawks trade Teuvo Teravainen?

 

Yes, we need to get rid of Bickell: 37.7%

Heck no, what are you thinking? 62.3%

 

Seems they changed their tune after the fact...

 

http://isportsweb.com/2016/06/12/chicago-blackhawks-is-teuvo-teravainen-a-trade-possibility/

With their claims that "Oh, TT was just okay, or too soft, or overrated" - or whatever else pops into their heads - Chicago fans are just trying to console themselves. Get them out of the chatroom and talking one-on-one and I'm sure most are wise enough to admit that they had to give up a piece of their future, and might even allow that their bluster is just an attempt to put a crappy move that they had to make behind them. From Bowman's perspective this was obviously a "where can he hurt us least" move: If he was going to have to move TT to unload Bickell, better he goes to a team in the other conference that is fighting to make the playoffs than to one that's a lead-pipe cinch to get in.

 

When you've got the development system and options in place that the 'Hawks have, their fans can afford to write of a move like this as being of little consequence, because in terms of their team's competitiveness next year, it probably is. They have more talent than they know where to go with. More power to 'em, after all the crappy years they had to endure.

 

Huge for us, though. We're at the opposite end of that continuum, in the earliest stages of trying to build something similar--based largely on their model. Makes perfect sense that theirs is the tree we'd shake first to see what falls out. There are far worse trading partners to have (and JR seemed to work with most of them). I love that RF established this relationship early in his tenure. I'm guessing BP's association hasn't hurt.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard that. I had games 5 and 7 and a killer job so it didn't sting too badly. But what still amazes me is how easy it was to get tix. Soon as we got in I went online figuring "no way." Boom, lower bowl.

 

And for Game 7? Guy next to me got FREE tix from work, and it was HIS FIRST HOCKEY GAME EVER. To those who have read this story one of the other million times I've posted it, sorry--but it's still dumbfounding: I spent all night explaining the rules, and the history of the most storied trophy in sports to him and his buddy. Williams nets the clincher, he turns to his buddy and says, "That seals it. The traffic's gonna be nuts, let's get out of here."

 

Suddenly I realized why it was so easy to get tickets. The challenges of non-traditional markets, Eh?

 

5660958d53df6ad007002522b01158ec.jpg

Yes it was insane how easy it was to get tkts. I went online as well and had choices to pick from. I know ppl who went to the box office and got shut out. Your seat mates clearly missed a great part of the victory,skating with a raised cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been thinking about the TT trade. It appears to me that RF is collecting young players with upside potential that will all mature (in an athletic sense) in the next two to three years. It will surprise me if we jump in to the FA market to sign anyone over 26. Almost all contracts RF sign are 3 years or less and so far not for big bucks.

 

I see Bickell as the price we had to pay for a young player. It isn't a bad thing to have Bickell. He has to play to prove himself after that odd injury, he has to earn a new contract with us or more likely someone else. He brings size and leadership to a young team. He could be here for term but RF hasn't been shy from bringing in a player he can turn into a future asset via trade. That at the moment is how I see Bickell.

 

When RF signed Ward he made a point of saying he didn't want to sign or trade for a goalie with a high salary and term. He also made a point of saying he wanted to leave room for a goalie like Ned (who he said needed more time) to develop in the system. I think the plan is to allow Ward and Lack to compete for the net this season but I won't be that surprised if Lack or Ward is moved before their contracts expire.

 

 I don't think RF isn't finished yet for this season. If you listen to what he says he gives a pretty good indication of what he is thinking. I will be very surprised if he doesn't go out and add one or two more forwards before the season starts.

 

I'm just thinking out loud

 

 

At some point you need to bring in veterans to enhance your youth but I'm not sure we are at that stage of the rebuild yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All good points, OBXer. Wonder further if this approach didn't evolve because of the way he observed his predecessor, the infamous JR, get burned by long term, difficult to turn over contracts? Additionally, by keeping these agreements short and more manageable, does that not create more hunger, less inclined to be "taken for granted"(entitled) atmosphere? Not sure if this approach can propagate indefinitely, but likely to be relaxed somewhat when this organization is able to enjoy "depth" that heretofore has not been there.

 

On another front, don't know how many on here read over on Canes Country, but I have been very disappointed that there has been so little draft prospect discussion, like there had been in previous years? I'd pose that question there, but for some reason, my password has not been allowed for quite some time??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good thoughts OBXer, and I think you're on target.

 

On balance the TT move is a prime example of Francis' comfort zone and staying with the plan. The main plan: dump the overpaid veterans, while building a deep prospect pool (in part by getting return on the overpaid vets, even as rentals). Supplement with cap deals that don't involved giving much up, draft well and develop.

 

He's really been masterful at that. We've had a few pretty good drafts, and he's been able to get without giving really anything we didn't want to lose: You gotta give to get? Not necessarily:

 

Sekera: tried to re-sign, offered him a good deal: but when he balked: #21 pick and a nice prospect: McKeown.

 

Eric: only one team to deal with: 2 second round picks and nice prospect in Saarela: (one of those picks the main price to get TT).

 

Wiz-Lack essentially for Khudoben and a late round pick.

 

Versteeg and Nordstrom: for very low talent.

 

Then trade Versteeg at the deadline for a high second round pick with upside in Zykov, and a 5th round pick.

 

Now take Bickell for one year and get a high skill, high upside young forward: TT, for a second (late (NYR for Eric) pick and a third round pick next year.

 

Pick up Nestracil on waivers.

 

The common denominator nice gains while not giving up much. This is why, while it feels we are one big time IC away from the action, a Faulk trade just ain't happening. Francis just doesn't like to give up much. This is also why a UFA of major import is also unlikely, because in that case he is giving a big (potential future bad) contract to an oldish player.

 

So whatever moves Francis makes, they are likely to be less of a splash than signing Stamkos. (Though if we did sign Stamkos how are we not instantly viable as a playoff team and soon to be contender)?

 

Francis, thus far has been extremely patient, methodical, and gained recurrent small edges in his deals. That, taken together with good drafting, and a very good coach, has been working at least on paper. Is it enough to put us over the top? That is the question I have.

 

Still, I would look for Francis to try to find a guy in another small ball trade that uses the cap to get an edge. Another nice forward, but not a stud. That's the safe bet in that this has been his method to date. Hard to argue with because it appears to be working.

 

That said, there might come a deal that is a splash that does involve a key player going the other way, that just makes sense. Or he might fashion a really creative deal that brings us a key guy. That's what I'm hoping for.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will postulate this.

 

We are one forward and good goaltending away from the playoffs.

 

Teuravainen will replace Versteeg's points. Aho and Lindholm's improvment wlll replace Eric's points. But that was not enough to get it done last year. Unless PDG or Rask both step up big, or if Jordan finds that level he was at from Jan-March all year, we are right where we were last year, just off the cut line.

 

But if we are right at the line, then logic dictates we are one guy away.

 

But we are in draft and develop mode. Why make any more moves? Why not just develop Zykov and Saarela, and Roy et all, draft well again and move forward? Because we are one player away, and developing those guys doesn't stop just because we make one more move, and our best prospects are mostly already on the team: Hanfin, Pesce, Slavin, Aho. Sareela and Zykov and Roy all have promise and maybe McGinn or Tolchinksy suddenly spike up, but for the most part we are 2-3 years from some prospects and this year's draft class really contributing.

 

What I am sayin, of course, will be seen as controversial, since the mantra is that JR always thought we were one player away, and look where that led? Well in 2006 and 2009 it led to some good things, but that aside, even in a pervasive strategy of doing X there are places where using a strategy of Y for one or two key pieces is the right move. I'd argue, that the arrival of TT and Aho, puts us right there.

 

One major addition up front and this is a playoff team.

 

This is the ultimate temptation of UFA. I know Francis seems like the last guy to go there, and has said as much. He's also mostly done what he says. That, combined with the fact that UFA's have to want to go to the place they go, means a big splash UFA is unlikely. But what a key it could be.

 

Stamkos, Erikkson, Okposo, Ladd, Lucic, to name 5. The first three bring 60-100 point potential. The last two bring leadership and grit respectively along with at least 40 points most likely more.

 

Add any of them to this roster, and it is hard not to see playoffs if Aho and TT can just be good not great. I will add this. The one thing Franics has done is create a very young team, especially up front. One of those UFA's could add more than just points.

 

But since those are still long shots, how about this: find a veteran guy, who is very good, but overpaid on a cap strapped team. Maybe has 2 years left on an overpay deal. Like Bickell, but much bigger upside. Like Versteeg was, but maybe a slighty better player. We overpay him for 2 years while our guys really develop. I don't know where that guy might be, but that would work out.

 

Finally, a young stud forward for a package of better prospects/picks.

 

I keep coming back to the Draisaitl or Matt Duchene.

 

 

Duchene: 55-70 points like clockwork and a ppg pace two seasons (basically).

 

It is hard to imagine a top 9 of Duchene, Jordan Staal, Rask down the middle, with Skinner, Lindholm, Teuravainen, Aho, Nordstrom and Nestracil not making the playoffs. Oh and PDG, Bickell, and Nash/McClement on the 4th and as depth?

 

Yes, we'd have to give to get on those, but however he does it, if Francis can find that one more piece, we are in the playoffs.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Stamkos is a pipe-dream for us, guys...flat-out.  However...if he doesn't sign within the first day of free agency, and I'm Franchise, I'm calling up Ken Holland and asking him if he's REALLY wanting to go all-out after Stamkos.  If the answer is yes, then I'm asking for Pulkaninen and Athanasiou along with their 2nd next season to absorb the contract...maybe throw in Murph and a bag of pucks to sweeten the deal.  Make no mistake, they want to offload Pavel's contract...but they need to see what happens day 1 of UFA signings before they accept reality on the price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...however he does it, if Francis can find that one more piece, we are in the playoffs.

I think that's the goal this year: Playoffs. Even if we go out in the first, we have to get Faulk, Hanifin, Pesce, Slavin, Skinner, Lindholm, Rask a taste. We've got five seasoned vets who have been there (Jordan, McClement, Wiz, Bickell, Ward), six if you count Roddy--plus Lack, TT, and Nordy have all seen the post-season.

 

(Hey, maybe RODDY is our surprise "acquisition"!? He's only 45! That's, what, 26 in Chelios years?)

 

I agree it doesn't take a Stamkos to get us there, and trust Ron is too smart to slap the handcuffs from which the org just escaped back on, even if we could get him. 

 

I'll be surprised if EDM parts with Draisaitl. He's still young, cheap, and shows too much promise. Eberle or Duchene seem more attainable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be surprised if EDM parts with Draisaitl. He's still young, cheap, and shows too much promise. Eberle or Duchene seem more attainable.

 

 

Draisaitl keeps coming up like bad sushi, but i agree with you completely - i don't see Edmonton parting with him.  They have about half a dozen first-overalls who i think they part with before him.  And despite my (and others') fun speculation, i don't see any of them coming here.  It would take Faulk, and i don't see RF trading Faulk.

 

 

DeCock seems to think Lack could be moved for another goalie. Not sure what his value is but I'm not against the idea.

 

 

Anybody who would be against the idea didn't watch too many of his starts last season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Insane tailgates during that run.

I actually sat in some guys mini pool enjoying a free beer. lol One guy had a large truck with a liner and filled with water,insane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toronto prolly just got the best goalie available in Andersen. 

And they gave up their late 1st to get him...a pick further down than our second 1st rounder...come on Franchise, you gotta know Lack isn't cutting it...we could've gotten him easier!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DeCock seems to think Lack could be moved for another goalie. Not sure what his value is but I'm not against the idea.

He's smoking something...or there's really a GM that stupid to acquire him right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2015/9/10/9297387/blackhawks-top-prospect-rankings-teuvo-teravainen-scouting-report-future-2015

 

Try to read that and not smile.

 

That's what the Hawk's SB writer thought of TT last year.

Thx Rem,good article. Yes I smiled. The videos show how he is engaged on defense as well. Can't wait to see him in action. I still think Ronnie has one more big move in the tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got seats half way up center ice 103. Game 5 Chris Berman of ESPN sat right behind us and we had a few nice conversations and a picture with him. Just one of many great memories.

 

I will postulate this.

 

We are one forward and good goaltending away from the playoffs.

 

Teuravainen will replace Versteeg's points. Aho and Lindholm's improvment wlll replace Eric's points. But that was not enough to get it done last year. Unless PDG or Rask both step up big, or if Jordan finds that level he was at from Jan-March all year, we are right where we were last year, just off the cut line.

 

But if we are right at the line, then logic dictates we are one guy away.

 

But we are in draft and develop mode. Why make any more moves? Why not just develop Zykov and Saarela, and Roy et all, draft well again and move forward? Because we are one player away, and developing those guys doesn't stop just because we make one more move, and our best prospects are mostly already on the team: Hanfin, Pesce, Slavin, Aho. Sareela and Zykov and Roy all have promise and maybe McGinn or Tolchinksy suddenly spike up, but for the most part we are 2-3 years from some prospects and this year's draft class really contributing.

 

What I am sayin, of course, will be seen as controversial, since the mantra is that JR always thought we were one player away, and look where that led? Well in 2006 and 2009 it led to some good things, but that aside, even in a pervasive strategy of doing X there are places where using a strategy of Y for one or two key pieces is the right move. I'd argue, that the arrival of TT and Aho, puts us right there.

 

One major addition up front and this is a playoff team.

 

This is the ultimate temptation of UFA. I know Francis seems like the last guy to go there, and has said as much. He's also mostly done what he says. That, combined with the fact that UFA's have to want to go to the place they go, means a big splash UFA is unlikely. But what a key it could be.

 

Stamkos, Erikkson, Okposo, Ladd, Lucic, to name 5. The first three bring 60-100 point potential. The last two bring leadership and grit respectively along with at least 40 points most likely more.

 

Add any of them to this roster, and it is hard not to see playoffs if Aho and TT can just be good not great. I will add this. The one thing Franics has done is create a very young team, especially up front. One of those UFA's could add more than just points.

 

But since those are still long shots, how about this: find a veteran guy, who is very good, but overpaid on a cap strapped team. Maybe has 2 years left on an overpay deal. Like Bickell, but much bigger upside. Like Versteeg was, but maybe a slighty better player. We overpay him for 2 years while our guys really develop. I don't know where that guy might be, but that would work out.

 

Finally, a young stud forward for a package of better prospects/picks.

 

I keep coming back to the Draisaitl or Matt Duchene.

 

 

Duchene: 55-70 points like clockwork and a ppg pace two seasons (basically).

 

It is hard to imagine a top 9 of Duchene, Jordan Staal, Rask down the middle, with Skinner, Lindholm, Teuravainen, Aho, Nordstrom and Nestracil not making the playoffs. Oh and PDG, Bickell, and Nash/McClement on the 4th and as depth?

 

Yes, we'd have to give to get on those, but however he does it, if Francis can find that one more piece, we are in the playoffs.

:applause:  I don't think Ronnie is against going after an UFA. He has stated that he wants to build an Org that is in it year after year and not a one and out team. Some of our young guns are still a few years away from making an impact and a high rated UFA brought in now would help us get to the dance this year....the first of more to come (Okposso or Lucic) are still in the age range that Ronnie wants to stay.. I must say that I would love to have Duchene  over Draisaitl. I'll take either but think that BP would drool over having Duchene's speed. Any of these along with TT would certainly increase our offensive numbers. Add in another surprise in training camp and we suddenly have a dangerous young team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two thoughts:

 

It's not just RF deciding the moves, it's also PK and his wallet.

 

Keep in mind that last year we traded for 31yo (at the time) Wiz and his contract wasn't exactly small (1 year at $5m, 1 year at $3m).  Of course I'm sure a big part of that intent was to mentor our d-yutes, but still, that's a decent investment.  I'm guessing that although he might not pursue an Okposo or Eriksson, RF might beat the bushes for a forward equivalent to Wiz. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two thoughts:

 

It's not just RF deciding the moves, it's also PK and his wallet.

 

Keep in mind that last year we traded for 31yo (at the time) Wiz and his contract wasn't exactly small (1 year at $5m, 1 year at $3m).  Of course I'm sure a big part of that intent was to mentor our d-yutes, but still, that's a decent investment.  I'm guessing that although he might not pursue an Okposo or Eriksson, RF might beat the bushes for a forward equivalent to Wiz. 

 

RF has already come out and said he's still looking to acquire another top 6 talent.  Other media outlets have recently said RF's is still sniffing around the league for a top 6 forward.  In addition, there have been media outlets that suggest RF is going to go after Okposo.

 

To me, it's a huge mistake for RF to sign lesser forwards.  That's pulling a JR.  Percell and Hudler type guys aren't much of an upgrade over TT, and in the end it's only going to take up cap space and eventually prevent us from signing all our young talent and going after legit top forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Check out the draft contest. The draft is in a few days and right now it's there for the taking!

 

2. I agree with PK, and it's kind of what I'm on about in the idea of trading up in the draft too.

 

This team IS most likely a playoff team if Francis adds another top 6 veteran forward, but the better that guy, the better the chances. We don't need a scrapper, role player. We need a guy who can score.

 

We have a pretty darned good supporting cast team and a few guys who could break into stardom. But none are there yet,. You do not need a star forward to make the playoffs, but it really helps, but you do need one and usually two to win the cup. Since Francis has said he wants to build a team that is a constant cup contender, there are two pieces missing (I'm projecting current talent to improve). At least one elite level forward, and an above average #1 goalie.

 

We do have a few guys who could become elite, but at this moment, really most likely that guy would be that 1B elite guy even if fully developed: Aho, Skinner, Lindholm, Rask and Jordan Staal, and TT,  But none of them are in that elite category of points yet, and may not either.

 

It would still make us a playoff team to pick up a 50 point forward, but somehow, some way, we need to find that guy. We could have done it in theory with Johansen, or Drouin, could do it if we picked up a Hall, or Duchene, or we could do it possibly in the draft, though trading up would increase the odds.

 

So,  a slick cap move like the Versteeg move was, adding a 40-50 point player would get us over the cut line so long as Aho and TT produce, but finding that guy, even if its' in the draft, would leave us a goalie away from the ultimate goal.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RF has already come out and said he's still looking to acquire another top 6 talent.  Other media outlets have recently said RF's is still sniffing around the league for a top 6 forward.  In addition, there have been media outlets that suggest RF is going to go after Okposo.

 

To me, it's a huge mistake for RF to sign lesser forwards.  That's pulling a JR.  Percell and Hudler type guys aren't much of an upgrade over TT, and in the end it's only going to take up cap space and eventually prevent us from signing all our young talent and going after legit top forward.

 

I believe he is too, lots of smoke suggests he's considering everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't we have to spend a bit more to get to the cap floor? Wouldn't that suggest we are definitely signing a couple UFA's or willing to trade for large contract guys? Anyone know where we stand with $ now? Who we still have to re sign and how much we have to spend to hit the floor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard another GM today say that there was more chatter and buzz in GM circles than usual this year. When I combine that with our having cap space and assets/picks to move, and Francis saying he's still looking, I have to think another move is coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooner or later Francis will need to make the big move. I'm not sure we are ready to do that yet. But RF has a road map  and so far he has improved the team each of his years at the helm. I think it is important that this team makes the playoffs this year. I think RF will do what it takes to give us a shot at that without losing sight of the ultimate goal, a consistent playoff team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...