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The other thing about having lots of promising prospects pushing from below (something we've never really had) is that we can afford to bring up only the best and most ready of them, while still able to afford them all because they are cheap.

 

Thus slotting one or two veterans, and here I use the word loosely since guys with just a couple or a few proven NHL years could technically qualify as veterans (say a RNH or Draisaitl), immediately strengthens the line up, but still allows slots for a guy to force his way onto the club. It also provides that illusive thing that all teams crave: depth. You can have depth if you have really good, NHL ready prospects to step in, because they are cheap.

 

But we are so below the cap, that we can also afford a well placed veteran or two, and still keep our depth, since they are all still cheap at this point.

 

In a way I am amazed at the pass that the Canes are getting from the fans this year. Luke wrote a piece yesterday? that was all over the place. He was trying to say, "hey, they've still missed the playoffs yet again". But ends up realizing that something fundamental is changing. Most fan comments, including on this board, are overwhelmingly of the "I'm excited with what is happening here" variety.

 

But will another miss next year still draw that? I wonder. I think probably not.

 

Getting close while turning the page and building the blue line, while knowing that Ward and Staals, (and Semins) contracts were yoke, was good for this year. But next year? I think we need in. And we need a strong start so we can start filling the building too.

 

Personally I think RF might make two moves: The Big Splash: Say Faulk for Duchene or Draistail, or a haul: Murphy, First Rounder, Second rounder, McKeown, etc. for a guy.  A move that brings a younger guy in ore near hitting his prime who will be part of this for a long time. The Slick Move: A Versteeg, Wiz type move from a cash strapped team.

 

And that's what I'd like to see too.

Edited by remkin

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top, I'm not sure if you're for or against a Faulk for Duchene trade. Would you be blocking realm's path to the phone or beating him to it?

PoTAYto, PoTAHto, Edmonton, Colorado--let's call the whole thing off. (Heh.) One of those Western playoff missers. (Thanks for catching it.)

 

Beating him to the phone, absolutely. Faulk helps us more than he hurts us, I have no doubt about that. But if we got a Duchene for him? Faggedaboudit. No brainer.

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In a way I am amazed at the pass that the Canes are getting from the fans this year. Luke wrote a piece yesterday? that was all over the place. He was trying to say, "hey, they've still missed the playoffs yet again". But ends up realizing that something fundamental is changing. Most fan comments, including on this board, are overwhelmingly of the "I'm excited with what is happening here" variety.

 

But will another miss next year still draw that? I wonder. I think probably not.

 

I agree, but not as much for the effect on the fans and filling the building as for the potential effect on key players if we don't make it.

 

I really believe the window could close for Skinner in terms of his enthusiasm for being here if we don't get in next year. His play this year, along with that of Jordan - and the pleasant surprise on D - are the main reasons we're a year ahead of schedule. Jordan too could decide to move on without a berth next year, assuming he doesn't ask for that right now.

 

 

Personally I think RF might make two moves: The Big Splash: Say Faulk for Duchene or Draistail, or a haul: Murphy, First Rounder, Second rounder, McKeown, etc. for a guy.  A move that brings a younger guy in ore near hitting his prime who will be part of this for a long time. The Slick Move: A Versteeg, Wiz type move from a cash strapped team.

 

 

And that's what I'd like to see too.

I'd rather get two young guys through both of your Splash deals than bring in another old guy. Call me an ageist, I don't care. :lol: Although I'd probably try to hang onto McKeown.

 

To my mind, if we keep McC and we have Wiz and Hainsey and J, and with Roddy on the bench and Ronnie in the house, we've got plenty of seasoned vets to help our kids through. Plus, Skinner is entering his seventh year, hard as that may be to believe.

 

If it turns out J wants to go somewhere now, I'd shoot for Edmonton, even-up, for RNH. EDM could then bring in his brother (assuming he's okay to play) and filial piety will be restored - just, thankfully, by some other all-day-sucker GM.

 

RNH and Duchene and Okposo? HELL YEAH.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Top, I think we're closer than we might think. I gather you just don't want an "aging vet on the back 9 of his career" type. I don't really either. When I point out a Versteeg-type move, what I mean is grabbing a 50 point guy for basically nothing from a cash strapped team, not necessarily an older guy. And it sounds like we both want to add that impact young or at least not old guy: Duchene, Okposo, RNH, Draisaitl, etc.

 

We really do have an intriguing collection of prospects that we haven't seen yet: Aho, Sareela, Zykov, Foegle, Cotton, etc. An interesting aside, an article picking 4 potential draft steals for last year's draft listed Cotton, but also listed Sareela for NY (written before we got him). That included this line:

 

...at the tender age of 16 in 2013, Aleksi Saarela was thought to be a future superstar and compared to Connor McDavid as the top prospect in the 2015 Draft.

 

It went on to talk about how he never, obviously, developed at that insanely high level, but he was thought to have serious talent. He appears to have gotten his game back on track and is a good prospect in his own right. He is only 19.

 

Anyways, the ideal thing would be to have enough talent up front, without any new prospect having to step up. Then let those guys battle it out with the McGinns, and Tolchinksi's of the system, till one of them just busts out with "I'm the guy". I don't think we have that kind of talent as we write.

Edited by remkin

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Anyone worried about the Canes relocating should check out the Florida-Islanders game. In Florida, lower bowl probably 1/4 empty (can't see upper deck), and when the Islanders scored, it sounded like they were the home team. I went to all of the 2009 playoff games and I don't remember any empty seats. When you can't sell out a playoff game with a really legitimate team on the ice, you should worry about being relocated.

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Don't you dare say that to a Florida fan, they'll tell you all about how they've had sellouts all year but somehow are 24th in attendance with one of the best teams in the league. 

 

If we get to the point we have one of the best teams in the league and can't fill the rink then I'll succumb to we don't even deserve a team.

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Anyone worried about the Canes relocating should check out the Florida-Islanders game. In Florida, lower bowl probably 1/4 empty (can't see upper deck), and when the Islanders scored, it sounded like they were the home team. I went to all of the 2009 playoff games and I don't remember any empty seats. When you can't sell out a playoff game with a really legitimate team on the ice, you should worry about being relocated.

 

Yeah, I noticed that too, BDC, in flipping channels last night. Even though the Hurricanes probably did have the lowest average attendance in the NHL this past season, it's sad to think that even with a successful team like the Panthers have been this season, Florida had something like the fifth-worst average attendance.

 

Something tells me that Quebec City would be drooling over a team like the Panthers and trying to get them to relocate by any means possible.

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I think the stadium the Panthers play in is a good ways from the population center of Miami. Surely in South Florida, I would think you couldn't take 3 steps without tripping over a relocated hockey fan.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, I checked my favorite ticket reselling site before Game 2 in Fla. last night. Lots of upper level corner seats for $31 and $32 each. They have a good team. They really should be supporting it.

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NJ also has had chronic attendance problems over the years including playoffs but that may have been because  Lamarello had that boring left wing lock trap system where the game was played between the blue lines. There are others even now that have lousy attendance.  Ironic that the 6 Canadian teams didn't make the playoffs where sell outs are guaranteed.

 

I agree with the comments about you don't deserve a team if you have a good one and can't fill the barn.  Sad for the hard core fans though that love the game like us.  Glad Florida is sky lined and not us. 

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The whole raising the price by 25% across the board really did attendance in.  Followed by another mediocre product on the ice and there you have it.  I did not go to a single game this year and this is the first year I have not been to at least 5 games since Greensboro.  I am betting Francis makes some big moves this off season to get the fans excited.

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I think you may be right on the big splash. In his interview he kind of hinted he might, but he's not going to overpay. But then his hands were tied before now, and one hardly expects the GM to say "the checkbook is open".  And yes, it's all about building a long term contender, but I have pointed it out before too, you need someone exciting to sell tickets.

 

Skinner can be that, but is not enough by himself. You need mostly steak, but it doesn't hurt to have some sizzle too. Plus, some sizzling players are also producers.

 

A move to bring in a big time forward, however it ends up happening, is critical right now, because as much as we may want to project on Rask, and Jordan and Lindholm, they have not proven to be that guy yet. Both in terms of winning and selling tickets, if he can find a way, get it done.

Edited by remkin

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I think you may be right on the big splash. In his interview he kind of hinted he might, but he's not going to overpay. But then his hands were tied before now, and one hardly expects the GM to say "the checkbook is open".  And yes, it's all about building a long term contender, but I have pointed it out before too, you need someone exciting to sell tickets.

I think it's highly possible that he will overpay for the right 2 or 3 year deal. I don't think he'll be doing any long term overpayment, but he is going to have to spend some money somewhere.

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Speaking of a big splash.

 

Here is an exhaustive analysis of the worth of signing Stamkos. Not that he has any interest of coming here, but this article makes the case that he is worth the big bucks, even on a 7 year deal.

 

It is written in the context of Stamkos signing with Toronto, far more likely. Still, it was good to read something about 10X longer than anything I've written lately....might just want to skip to the end.

 

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/4/17/11444736/the-case-for-signing-steven-stamkos

Edited by remkin

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I wouldn't mind seeing Ladd come back.  Although I am not sure if he is what we need from a forward stand point.  What he will want probably is in line with what we're willing to spend.

Edited by bluedevil58

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Ladd would be a help I'm sure but it would help sell more tickets and generate some much needed Canes buzz (not the parking lot kind) to get more of a 'name' player under contract.  I'm not saying I want Lucic because he is a total [insert name of feminine hygiene product for cleansing] but if you could find a player along those lines it might help turn some of our boys up front (Skinner Rask, Lindholm) into men knowing that someone has their back, which right now is non-existent.  Chris Neil who is at the end of his career is also that type of player, capable of scoring goals and bringing an attitude every night so the other team doesn't do stupid stuff.  We are simply not a tough enough team right now to go into the playoffs when you look at a Detroit/TB series.  Our young forwards would wilt under that type of banging play over the course of 1 to 4 series...As it is Skinner and Lindholm don't even know where the corners are to be found.

Edited by raleighcaniac

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2  questions....   On an emotional level, i want Cammer to stay, but if he goes, how about Martin Jones of San Jose? Does he make more than 5 million a  year, maybe someone can help me with that.. Thanks.. Also, Orospo, i spelled it wrong, from the Isles..

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2  questions....   On an emotional level, i want Cammer to stay, but if he goes, how about Martin Jones of San Jose? Does he make more than 5 million a  year, maybe someone can help me with that.. Thanks.. Also, Orospo, i spelled it wrong, from the Isles..

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/average/goaltender/

 

List of salaries of NHL goaltenders. Martin Jones is #30 on the list, @ $3M/year. Less than half of what Ward is making.

 

Okposo? He'd be a nice winger to add. Don't know what the Isles would want in return. I might trade Faulk for Draisaitl or Duchene, but I doubt I'd want to go to that extreme for Okposo.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/

Edited by JonKerfoot

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I think Okposo is a UFA? We would only have to give up money to him. The trick of course is getting him to come here, and for a deal that "makes sense" to Francis. But he would be a very nice addition.

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I think Okposo is a UFA? We would only have to give up money to him. The trick of course is getting him to come here, and for a deal that "makes sense" to Francis. But he would be a very nice addition.

 

I stand corrected, rem. Okposo is a UFA. Current salary is a reasonable $2.8 million. He's 28. He's a RW.

 

Based on that spotrac.com list, the youngest UFA RW is Colton Sceviour at 26.

Edited by JonKerfoot

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I think Okposo is a UFA? We would only have to give up money to him. The trick of course is getting him to come here, and for a deal that "makes sense" to Francis. But he would be a very nice addition.

 

He would definitely be on my must target list.

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I have initiated a little research into Okposo. Much of what I'm finding is opinions from other message boards, which we shan't reference here, but I can summarize. 

 

Basically I think he is actually the poster boy for "deal that makes sense", and by that I mean only if the contract makes sense. The thing about UFA"s is that by definition there is a spread between what the player thinks he's worth and his team does. So for Okposo, the numbers being thrown around are pretty big: $7 million/ 7 years. $6 million/ 6 years.

 

That's a lot of jack for a team like us. Throw a NTC in there, and it could get bad fast.

 

On the one hand, Okposo puts up legit first line numbers offensively and is a good character guy and hard nosed offensively. On the other hand, he is not strong defensively, and is widely panned for not thinking the game well and taking bad penalties and turnovers.

 

This chart reflects the offense, and the defensively liability.

 

 

hDd3G1B.png

 

it may be an ironic time to bring up the dreaded plus/minus stat given our discussions elsewhere, but Okposo is a very good example of how the stat can be used, and does have meaning if used right.

 

Okposo has been a minus player every single year (min 40 games played) of his career.  many on plus teams. He is a minus 60 for his career. Okposo was minus 4 last year, sixth from the bottom. His linemate Tavares was plus 6, #5 from the top. Last year, Okposo was -8, #2 from last on the team, while Tavares was +5 #8 from the top. That is a lot of smoke not to have some fire in the vicinity.

 

NYI fans comment on his lack of defense and bad turnovers. The CA60 above, also reflects it. This guy gives back a lot of goals and chances.

 

My main concern though is that Okposo's numbers (which will drive his paycheck and term) are inflated due to playing with an elite center in Tavares. I found an excellent, number oriented evaluation of this, and not only is Okposo's offense worse without Tavares, but it actually dropped below average for Islander's forwards.

 

None of this means Okposo still would not help us. He is a character guy with skill. He may not keep putting up 65 points without Tavares, but we need point producers.  The problem is likely in the money and the term. Francis wants deals that "make sense" and personally I don't think the numbers thrown around are likely to make sense, especially if one considers the defensive game and the "no Tavares" drop off.

 

Like with so many, if not all of the UFA's the devil is in the details of the contract. If Okposo gets paid like he plays defense and won't miss Tavares, that could end up being a bad contract, especially on the back end.

 

We could use the guy, but probably not at the price he'll want.

Edited by remkin

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