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Am I reading this right that goaltending wasn't an issue in the one goal losses? I agree that goal scoring needs to improve, but there is that other thing too.

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Am I reading this right that goaltending wasn't an issue in the one goal losses? I agree that goal scoring needs to improve, but there is that other thing too.

 

Yeah, just sit back and wait for the other shoe to drop. Or would that be skate to drop? I have left games as the shoot out started just to beat the hopeful out of the parking lot.  

Edited by winger52

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I can remember coaches from Mo to Muller and to Peters all saying that you want that third line that can score. Sure it helps if the fourth line chips in a few, but they tend to get a lot less minutes, so that third line scoring is key. But up till now we simply haven't had the depth. A couple of times we were close on paper, but it never came together.

 

While we may not have the prototypical first line (I do think eventually we will need that to be cup contenders, but also think we will eventually have it) we do really seem to have skill all the way down to #9, and arguably further than that. We may not get mega points from one big line, but I think teams will have trouble matching whatever counts as our third line.

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Am I reading this right that goaltending wasn't an issue in the one goal losses? I agree that goal scoring needs to improve, but there is that other thing too.

Beats me.  My original post simply listed some stats and asked to get to .500, which I think we'll all take whether through more goals for or fewer against.  If the goalies pull their weight as part of the process that would be most appreciated.

 

Enjoying all the different perspectives expressed.  Thanks.

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Am I reading this right that goaltending wasn't an issue in the one goal losses? I agree that goal scoring needs to improve, but there is that other thing too.

Not from me. I agreed with you that 'tending was a problem in the first half of the season, which is really when any shot at the playoffs was lost. We made it interesting, but more so on paper than IRL. If the crease work had been consistent all year - as good in the first half as it was in the second - we might have squeaked in. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I do think RF has left himself room to go out and get a keeper if either of our duo is not on their game right from, uh, Jump Street.

 

21-jump-street-inner.jpg

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Am I reading this right that goaltending wasn't an issue in the one goal losses? I agree that goal scoring needs to improve, but there is that other thing too.

I was agreeing that our goal tending in the second half wasn't the issue. Yes our goal tending in the 1st half was responsible for many loses including one goal loses. Unfortunately the one goal loses early on were not 2-1 loses. I haven't checked last years games but I would venture most lone goal loses were by giving up 3 or more goals. In regards to shoot outs I wouldn't hang that on the goal tending though. We simply did not have anyone who excels in SO's. I recall giving up on a few games as well once we went to OT, just don't have a SO lineup. I used to laugh at what type of lineup Peters or Rod would have to choose from.

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That line up could be deceptively good, and what's better it should improve as time goes on. 

 

The deception is that while N/S/N is not a typical first line, they can match most team's first lines in plus minus, and they were actually scoring pretty well in the back half of the year. But that Nordstrom and Nestrasil do is form a line w/ Jordan that works, without using up our scoring and playmaking wingers. Then we just need our other lines to outscore the other guy's, especially lines 2 and 3. 

 

If Teravainen-Lindolm-Aho find their stride, that is a ton of hidden potential for one of the best third lines in the NHL.  Letting those guys go up against bottom pair defensemen? Could be huge. 

 

And Skinner's offensive numbers are first line straight up, and Rask already put up 50, as did Stempniak. If that line comes together it could be top 10 second line, or better. 

 

So we play your top line even, then beat you with our scoring depth. 

 

That could work.

So it could possible be better to have 3 - 2nd lines instead of the typical 1st, 2nd, & 3rd line scoring. The problem it would create for the other teams could be huge, because on any given night any of the three lines could be your #1 line for that night.

 

I again think speed, & scoring depth is much more important in today's NHL than having a true line 1, line 2, & line 3.

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I think it is two-fold.  Because even if you look at the past 2 years.  Who ever one the cup had elite forwards in some shape or form.  Any team that wins has at least 2 elite forwards and they're usually centers.

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Janne Kuokkanan is headed to North America.   Just signed with the London Knights.  If he was committed to coming over I'm ecstatic he is going to London.

 

http://londonknights.com/article/london-signs-kuokkanen

 

 

So what does this mean for AHL purposes?

 

"Players drafted and playing for CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (AHL, ECHL) until they are 20 years old"

 

"Kuokkanen was London’s first-round pick in the CHL Import Draft"

 

So if he was picked by London in the CHL Import Draft that means he was drafted, yes?  Therefore he can't play in the AHL until he's 20?  Not that i would have expected him in Charlotte this year, but next year it could very well be preferable to playing in the juniors.  Unless he makes the team out of camp, of course, which i suppose is possible...

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So what does this mean for AHL purposes?

 

"Players drafted and playing for CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (AHL, ECHL) until they are 20 years old"

 

"Kuokkanen was London’s first-round pick in the CHL Import Draft"

 

So if he was picked by London in the CHL Import Draft that means he was drafted, yes?  Therefore he can't play in the AHL until he's 20?  Not that i would have expected him in Charlotte this year, but next year it could very well be preferable to playing in the juniors.  Unless he makes the team out of camp, of course, which i suppose is possible...

 

Kuokkanen can still play in the AHL prior to reaching 20 years old since he was drafted by an NHL team (the Canes) from the Finnish league and no CHL club held his rights at that time.

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Kuokkanen can still play in the AHL prior to reaching 20 years old since he was drafted by an NHL team (the Canes) from the Finnish league and no CHL club held his rights at that time.

I think that's kind of great. He can go develop his creative talents as a top player while adjusting to smaller ice, then take the more logical step next year of an AHL year to play vs. men on the smaller ice, with a taste of NHL during injuries. Then play NHL more likely the next year.

 

I don't have any actual examples, but that just feels like a near perfect strategy for a European young player.

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I think that's kind of great. He can go develop his creative talents as a top player while adjusting to smaller ice, then take the more logical step next year of an AHL year to play vs. men on the smaller ice, with a taste of NHL during injuries. Then play NHL more likely the next year.

 

I don't have any actual examples, but that just feels like a near perfect strategy for a European young player.

 

Victor Rask

Edited by coastal_caniac

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So it could possible be better to have 3 - 2nd lines instead of the typical 1st, 2nd, & 3rd line scoring. The problem it would create for the other teams could be huge, because on any given night any of the three lines could be your #1 line for that night.

 

I again think speed, & scoring depth is much more important in today's NHL than having a true line 1, line 2, & line 3.

 

I think that just wide scoring depth can get you pretty far. If it is deep enough, it can get you solidly into to playoffs. But looking back at the cup finalists for the past 10 years or so, suggests that to be a perennial cup contender, the kind Francis has repeatedly said he is trying to build, ie: Tampa, Ptit, Chicago, LA, you do need to have at least two bonefide elite forwards. Guys around a ppg that can create offense, and you need scoring depth too. You need both.

 

That is why I go on about finding elite talent because that is hard to do picking lower in the draft. It is no where near impossible, just hard (I have a strong sense we might have done it with Gauthier). You have to scout well, and frankly get a little lucky. OR you can pull of a trade if you are stacked on D, like Jones for Johansenn, or even Larsson for Hall.

 

I am not sure we don't have an elite talent guy in one of our young guys, we'll have to see. Skinner seems to be the closest to getting there, but TT, Lindholm, Aho, Gauthier, could get there, or Koukkanen, or Rask, could. But my guess is that we still end up packaging some defensive package to try to get our Hall/Johansen, type trade at some point.

 

I think that, and maybe a one time UFA buy, is what moves us into that final category of Perennial Cup contenders.

 

I don't think that is in the plans for this year anyway. But what I do think could surprise is that depth, if a few guys step up could actually move us fast (this year) into the solid playoff category. And that would be a very big move for a team that has largely been in maximal pain territory for a long time.

Edited by remkin

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I think that just wide scoring depth can get you pretty far. If it is deep enough, it can get you solidly into to playoffs. But looking back at the cup finalists for the past 10 years or so, suggests that to be a perennial cup contender, the kind Francis has repeatedly said he is trying to build, ie: Tampa, Ptit, Chicago, LA, you do need to have at least two bonefide elite forwards. Guys around a ppg that can create offense, and you need scoring depth too. You need both.

 

 

Agreed.  And i love the way Francis is doing it - building depth while perhaps finding yutes who will become elites in 2-3 years.  Perhaps doesn't give immediate gratification, but very consistent with RF's 'perennial contender' plan.  JR would never have bought out Semin, would have extended ES, and would have traded every one of our prospects and 1st-round picks for Nash, Kessel, and Jagr.  We would have ended up with a good, deep playoff run next season followed by another 10 years of bare cupboards.  I'll stick with the Francis method, thanks.

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Excellent. That worked pretty well!

I'm with you on the Rask assessment.  Two seasons ago while sitting up in my upper-level seats (where one can better digest the game), Rask was impressive.  I always try to take one or two new people to a game each season.  I can remember myself telling those folks that this guy is going to be a star.  Watch his hands.  Watch where he skates - either on defense or positioning himself in our offensive zone - he has that ubiquitous term, "hockey sense".  With the additions to the team this coming season as well as a few of the deletions, I'm really anticipating an exciting run.  They've got my support. 

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It will also be interesting to see how the "found" prospects develop. Guys Francis found trading at the deadline or cap deals.

 

That list has a lot of upside on it:

 

TT

Saarlea

Zykov

McKeown

Gauthier (even though we drafted him, he was picked w/ the LA pick)

 

Even if one or two are traded for a guy. That will help alleviate not drafting higher too.

Edited by remkin

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It will also be interesting to see how the "found" prospects develop. Guys Francis found trading at the deadline or cap deals.

 

That list has a lot of upside on it:

 

TT

Saarlea

Zykov

McKeown

Gauthier (even though we drafted him, he was picked w/ the LA pick)

 

Even if one or two are traded for a guy. That will help alleviate not drafting higher too.

It wouldn't surprise me if Francis does one more cap trade.  The Sharks, Kings, and Habs all have less than a million dollars cap space right now.  And Pittsburgh is over the cap.

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It wouldn't surprise me if Francis does one more cap trade.  The Sharks, Kings, and Habs all have less than a million dollars cap space right now.  And Pittsburgh is over the cap.

 

The only thing I could see happening, and not a strong possibility, is a trade for Fleury from the Penguins. Send Lack and a pick or prospect the other way would free up $3M from the Penguins and give us an excellent goalie for only one more contract year over Lack. That would not "block" Ned if he is ready on time due to Cam's contract expiring at the same time as Lack's is due to anyway.

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This probably will be an unpopular sentiment, but I, for one, hope we never see MAF aka- "The Flower", in a Canes uniform. Statistically, he probably is, and likely is head and shoulders above Cam or Eddie, but I've never been able to stand the guy!!

 

On another note, seeing where Chris Kreider just resigned with the Rangers. I was holding out hope that he might hit a snag in these renegotiations, and we might attempt to enter the picture, but No. Oh well. anyone know how often these arbitration situations fail, and player ends up somewhere else? Must not be often?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Could Radim Vrbata, Jiri Hudler, Alex Tanguay or Kris Versteeg be signed to a one year contract. They could help mentor and take pressure off the young guys. They are also great assets to have at the trade deadline.

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Could Radim Vrbata, Jiri Hudler, Alex Tanguay or Kris Versteeg be signed to a one year contract. They could help mentor and take pressure off the young guys. They are also great assets to have at the trade deadline.

I've been on the soapbox the entire off season in hoping that we could get a tier 2 guy specifically Jiri Hudler. He has great hands and can be a playmaker/scorer. I guess Ronnie felt that Stepniak was that guy but Jiri is another addition that would fill the RW void. AS time goes on I guess a one year deal gets to be more of a possibility,but I get the feeling Ronnie is done for now.

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Juri Hudler was a guy I had my eye on too. One has to think he is just asking too much. A one or two year deal would be worth looking at I think. But, at this point, I'm not sure where he fits. Francis has essentially decided to go with Stempniak in that veteran short timer role. We have a pretty set top 9. Still, we would have mega depth for any injuries...or if Nesty or any other forward is not ready to go...

 

In the end, I really doubt we go that way because it would push a clear cut top 9 guy to the 4th line or press box:

 

Jordan, Nesty, Nordstrom, Teravainen, Lindholm, Skinner, Rask, Stempniak, Aho. That has to be the odds on top 9.

 

W/ PDG, Bickell, and Stahlberg all pushing up from the 4th ilne, and McClement there too.

 

That's already 13 guys for 12 spots.

Edited by remkin

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Could Radim Vrbata, Jiri Hudler, Alex Tanguay or Kris Versteeg be signed to a one year contract. They could help mentor and take pressure off the young guys. They are also great assets to have at the trade deadline.

 

They could, but where do you put them? Already people are penciling in PDG in Charlotte or the 4th line due to the new guys we brought in pushing him down the lineup. My feeling is that we are done at forward and defense this year unless a major injury occurs to one of our stars (Faulk, Staal, Rask, etc.). Otherwise, we will fill from within the organization. The one position that I could see a move being made is to trade Lack for a better goalie that becomes the 1A to Wards 1B in a cap space trade. Fleury seems to be the most likely given that the Pens want space and want to be able to protect Murry next year, but there are a few others that also seem to work in that scenario.

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