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As far as MAF, just think what his numbers would be if he didn't have all those stars in front of him. I don't know if he would even be a Checker.

Let's also think of what Cam's numbers would be id he played for NYR or Pitt... i might sound like a homer. But we all know how the D was from 2006 - 2014....

Edited by bluedevil58

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Just a nickles opinion, we know what we have with Cam and Lack which at times is impressive, but from Oct to Dec. is what I call SOFT.. Id take MAF over the both of them in a two second trade, if nothing else for the sake of change.. Looking forward to this season of not seeing E skate off the ice with his head down. ..off season is entirely to long btw..

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Would Cam's numbers be better on a better team? Yeah, but probably not by much. Last season, Cam was on a team that allowed among the least amount of shots, and still put up sub-par numbers. He is no Fleury, and I think it's borderline insanity to even compare the two.

Fleury has let in some bad goals in the playoffs, key word playoffs. It's easier to make him the scapegoat for Pittsburgh instead of Crosby and Malkin, who normally disappear in the playoffs.

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So you want to go back to paying an average goalie 5.7 - 6m / year? That's what you're getting with Fleury.

Average goalie?!? He is routinely one of the top goalies in QS and GSAA for the last four years. Conversely, Cam and Eddie are in the bottom third. Adding MAF to this team would easily get us 10 more points over the course of the season.

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Goalies have better stats than him in this league and make way less on worse teams.

Care to give me an example of a player that signed a UFA contract that has better stats and is way cheaper. Given that the Penguins won it all, I'll concede the worse teams part.

Also, since we are talking about improving the Canes, it would be nice if they were reasonably available.

Edited by MinJaBen

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So now you add UFA into the mix. I was just going by stats and salary. Bishop comes to mind minus the UFA part.

The point of the UFA add is that it's not surprising to find guys signed as an RFA that are cheaper and better than other players because of the contract negotiation status. Bishop is better, but he is about the same salary for next year. However, once he gets his new contract negotiated as a UFA, or soon to be UFA, he will be much more expensive. Also, availability is important, too. I mean, we'd all like to have Price, but no way he is available.

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Average goalie?!? He is routinely one of the top goalies in QS and GSAA for the last four years. Conversely, Cam and Eddie are in the bottom third. Adding MAF to this team would easily get us 10 more points over the course of the season.

He turns average or worse in the playoffs. :deadhorse:  That being said, I'd find it refreshing to see the team suck in May, instead of October.

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It will be interesting to see how Cam plays, especially this year, as Francis and Peters have at least initially staked their claim on him being a legit #1 goalie. Coaches seem to consistently like Cam's form and overall game (Peters said he has top elite puck handling skills) over every other would be usurper back up that has come through. I'd like to be able to say Francis just was not going to pay a lot for a back up and thought Cam would be decent enough. But that's not really the case. Seeing what it took to get a guy like Elliot, etc (not much), I think Francis really thinks Cam can and will be that guy we saw for long stretches, but not all, of the last two years.

 

Personally, my biggest fear is Cams' historic slow starts. Sure, it's not all on him, the team has started slow, but he has also. I think if Cam bears down mentally, and gets some good starts early in the year, he can be a middle pack #1 goalie. Clearly Francis and Peters are betting on it. That would get the job done too.

Edited by remkin

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Good points Rem, and as you suggest, Cam's slow starts - even last year - came behind really bad/inexperienced defenses.

 

Just the fact that the D core is back this year, is skilled, has played together, and most important is familiar with Cam's game, positions him better than he has been in a long time for a solid start. In your own zone, this game is all about knowing what your teammates will do with and without the puck. Puck management in our end has taken ridiculous strides in the past two years.

 

That's huge, and if Cam can stop the far lower number of shots which get thru from the outset as well as he did in the second half of last year, we'll be fine in net. If he can't, and if Lack doesn't seize the opportunity, I think we see a move very quickly.

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I saw this in Spector's Hockey this morning

 

The Carolina Hurricanes are “mildly interested” in Tampa Bay Lightning center Valtteri Filppula.

 

 

I don't think there is much to it but if true it could point out the RF is still kicking tires. I said before the team feels incomplete, to me. I don't see us making a goalie move until at best somewhere in the season, I don't see us adding a D-man as some rumors hint at. What was the point of buying out Wiz if we wanted to do that? I do see us possible making a move for a top 6 forward. 

 

A lot might be determined in training camp. Interesting times.

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I guess it depends on how sold we are with our 3rd line center options. Filppula would be a nice third line center. He's not more than that. He'd be another vet that doesn't really pop the excitement meter, but could be a nice addition. He has 60 point potential, but has been no where near that the last two years. The last two years he's been more of a third line set up guy with only 10 goals per year the last two.

 

On the one hand, he is due $5 million/year for 2 more years, which is a big overpay for his recent production, and he's 32.  On the other hand we would pick him up as a salary dump, presumably for a non first round draft pick.

 

I just don't see him as a huge upgrade to our current top 9. In fact not sure how we make room for him. So he makes some sense to me only if we are not seeing anyone seize that third line center role, because baring another trade, it would leave us with 10 top nine forwards not counting PDG.(I am counting Aho).

 

But the guy is a very competent third line center.

 

I'd bet no on this one. $5 million/year is a lot of salary. Keep that powder dry for a bigger move to affect the top line.

Edited by remkin

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I guess it depends on how sold we are with our 3rd line center options. Filppula would be a nice third line center. He's not more than that. He'd be another vet that doesn't really pop the excitement meter, but could be a nice addition. He has 60 point potential, but has been no where near that the last two years. The last two years he's been more of a third line set up guy with only 10 goals per year the last two.

On the one hand, he is due $5 million/year for 2 more years, which is a big overpay for his recent production, and he's 32. On the other hand we would pick him up as a salary dump, presumably for a non first round draft pick.

I just don't see him as a huge upgrade to our current top 9. In fact not sure how we make room for him. So he makes some sense to me only if we are not seeing anyone seize that third line center role, because baring another trade, it would leave us with 10 top nine forwards not counting PDG.(I am counting Aho).

But the guy is a very competent third line center.

I'd bet no on this one. $5 million/year is a lot of salary. Keep that powder dry for a bigger move to affect the top line.

Remkin , I'm with you on not liking the idea. Flip isn't performing at 5 million and is 32 which doesn't fit our direction. I would be good with it if the deal included a young forward like Palat. 25 years old averages 50 points a season in his 3 years. I could live with overpaying Flip for atleast 1 season to get Palat long term. Edited by gocanes0506

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Remain, I'm with you on not liking the idea. Flip isn't performing at 5 million and is 32 which doesn't fit our direction. I would be good with it if the deal included a young forward like Palat. 25 years old averages 50 points a season in his 3 years. I could live with overpaying Flip for atleast 1 season to get Palat long term.

 

Yeah, gocanes I agree. I know Francis was in on trying to get Drouin, and Tampa has guys like that or Palat that would be worth working into a package. Of course, we'd have to give up more to get in that case, probably one of our D guys. But if we took Fillpula's salary in a bigger deal fine, but then we probably have to move a couple of forwards to make room.

 

Probably not happening though is my guess.

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Doesn't make much sense to me either.

 

Even if he did come here he has a NMC and would have to be protected. 

 

As a side note, the Canes currently hold 48 of the allowed 50 contracts.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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He turns average or worse in the playoffs. :deadhorse:  That being said, I'd find it refreshing to see the team suck in May, instead of October.

 

 

In contrast, Ward starts off the season average or worse and then turns to gold for 3 months in January and, on the rare occasions he ever makes it, the playoffs.  I don't particularly want MAF here, but if he can get the team winning out of the gate until the good Ward arrives, playoffs are pretty much a given.

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I saw this in Spector's Hockey this morning

 

 

I don't think there is much to it but if true it could point out the RF is still kicking tires. I said before the team feels incomplete, to me. I don't see us making a goalie move until at best somewhere in the season, I don't see us adding a D-man as some rumors hint at. What was the point of buying out Wiz if we wanted to do that? I do see us possible making a move for a top 6 forward. 

 

A lot might be determined in training camp. Interesting times.

I saw this as well this morning. Not a big fan of Spector, throws a lot against the wall to see what sticks. I don't see the value add of this trade due to age,last few years of performance and salary. 

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I saw this in Spector's Hockey this morning

Well, we already know Rask, Jordan and McC are locked in at C. Bringing in Filppula would only delay identifying our last one, and TheOrg has said it wants Lindholm to have the opportunity, and that Aho can also play there.

 

I just don't see delaying the development of either of these young guys by bringing in a 32-year-old. We picked up vet presence through FA, and it was surgical; RF knew exactly what we needed and went out and got it. Filppula's not a fit(pula).

 

Of course, it is July and we're talking about Spector's, so "mild interest" likely means somebody told RF, "Valteri's available," and RF replied, "Huh. That's mildly interesting."  :lol:

Edited by top-shelf-1

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In fairness  Richardson at Spector's Hockey posts mostly info from other sources in the rumor section and then comments on them. Like any other rumor you need to apply a filter.

 

The rumor stated mild interest by us for Filppula. My point is that if there is any basis in fact it shows Francis is still looking for players to add to the mix. It doesn't mean Filppula is a realistic target.

 

and its summer and the only rumor we have had lately to bite into.

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I just don't think that our team needs any more tinkering. (The one exception might be issues of the expansion draft if they remain), but in terms of the players hitting the ice in training camp, for the first time in many years, I  can honestly say, that I don't think we need that #8 forward to bolster the third line, or that #5 Dman.

 

If Francis has a move left in him I would make it a big move: the guy coming in is a clear and obvious upgrade for the first line.  And to me a big move means picking up a very high quality forward that is still young and has years on the contract. Even a big time prospect. The two deals that sort I mean: the Larsson for Hall deal, and the Jones for Johansen deals. Young forward stars with high potential for or proven elite talent, exchanged for high end or potentially high end D men.

 

This is the "give to get" deal that brings in that elite forward.

 

There are a few things that make this unlikely right now: our give part of the equation is still unproven. Here we could be talking McKeown or Fleury for the right forward, but neither has played even one NHL game. Could be a Pesce or Slavin, but even there, would they draw true value, and can we go without them this year while McKeown and Fleury get up to speed? Same for the Faulk idea. Sure, he'd get the return, but are we really ready to make the playoffs this year with him gone?

 

Also, Francis has yet to make a deal where he gives up anything of value. He has kicked tires, but not gotten to the threshold of making a deal. He is very very deliberate on this to the point of not yet doing it in his tenure. He has been in on trying to make these deals, but either does not have or will not part with the right piece to get it done.

 

The team would have been jump started had we found a way to pick up a guy like Hall or Johanssen, and there still may be a deal out there for a guy with at least that kind of kind of upside, but those deals are few and far between anyways.

 

The other thing is getting a read on what we have. This is one of Top's themes. We have tiers of guys at various distances from potential breakouts up front: Lindholm, Aho, Teravainen, Rask, PDG on the team now, Gauthier, Roy, Saarela, Zykov, Kouokkvanen, Tolchinsky, and more in the system, that we don't really know how good they will end up being. Then on D, Fleury, McKeown, even Pesce and Slavin and Hanfin, all still with steps up to take. Heck we don't even really know if Faulk will get to that all around game we hope for.

 

Just seems that both not getting full value, and not knowing even who we absolutely want to keep, make this an unlikely year for moving a major piece out.

 

My guess is that odds are that eventually we make that kind of deal: One of our D studs gets moved for and O stud. The evidence clearly shows you need a couple of offensive stars to win cups. Just seems more likely as time goes on in the season, or next year.

 

So, to me the deal that makes sense is the one that brings an elite forward here. But that deal seems really unlikely this off-season. I just don't see adding another third line level piece. Especially an overpaid, over 30 one.

Edited by remkin

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I just don't think that our team needs any more tinkering. (The one exception might be issues of the expansion draft if they remain), but in terms of the players hitting the ice in training camp, for the first time in many years, I  can honestly say, that I don't think we need that #8 forward to bolster the third line, or that #5 Dman.

 

For the skaters, I agree. I do, however, see the potential to substantially upgrade the goalie situation for a modest price. I am still not excited with GMRF's plan to basically "hold a spot" for Needaspellcheck to take in a couple of years. My opinion on goalie development is that if they are not developed, don't plan on them. Too variable. Now, if we had guys already signed that were average, I wouldn't make a move. But with a substantially below average pair of goalies, one of which had an expiring contract, I would have been more aggressive in trying to bring in a better goalie that could help move the team forward. Even if that meant the term on the contract potentially blocked/overlapped with a prospect's expected timeline. What's the worst that could of happened, we have two good goalies in a couple of years? That must have been awful for Anaheim, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. No way any of those three could have been expected to make the playoffs with two good goalies on their team.

Edited by MinJaBen

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I agree the odds of getting an elite forward seem small. It would probable take a deal that many of us wouldn't want to think about. Coupled with the fact we are only in year 3 of the rebuild and have an eye to the future as much as the now. The Rask signing (I applaud it) might indicate that Francis is now ready to step up the game so I wouldn't rule out another move even if it isn't that "big" move.

 

Our future looks bright but there is still a lot of uncertainty around this years team. Last years young "stars" need to prove they can maintain or improve their level of play. It won't get easier because teams and players now have a body of work to dissect. Our emerging prospects haven't proven anything yet. Until training camp or the early season we won't know if any of them are NHL ready. The vets we signed haven't played a game and although on paper we have gotten bigger and maybe faster until they lace them up as a Cane you can't be sure how they fit in.

 

Signing another top 6 or top 9 player (center) will add to the competition, add to asset choices RF can move, Give players who might need another year of seasoning a chance to improve.

 

I'm encouraged by the team we have so far and if we ride with them it is alright but if we can improve the team, increase  competition and add another asset then I'm all for it.

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For the skaters, I agree. I do, however, see the potential to substantially upgrade the goalie situation for a modest price. I am still not excited with GMRF's plan to basically "hold a spot" for Needaspellcheck to take in a couple of years. My opinion on goalie development is that if they are not developed, don't plan on them. Too variable. Now, if we had guys already signed that were average, I wouldn't make a move. But with a substantially below average pair of goalies, one of which had an expiring contract, I would have been more aggressive in trying to bring in a better goalie that could help move the team forward. Even if that meant the term on the contract potentially blocked/overlapped with a prospect's expected timeline. What's the worst that could of happened, we have two good goalies in a couple of years? That must have been awful for Anaheim, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. No way any of those three could have been expected to make the playoffs with two good goalies on their team.

 

I think our goalie future is in Charlotte. We didn't sign Ward to trade him. I could see a Lack trade but he is under contract for 2.5 mil this season and wonder if you are going to get a better back-up for the price. Lack has something to prove and goalies are at times inconsistent and then find their game again. We could move a goalie but I will bet it won't be until early in the season or trade-deadline. Then again nothing will surprise me.

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