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I don't think McGinn or Tolchinsky are "ifs" anymore.

 

Not seeing either of those two in the plans.

 

I'm seeing McGinn as less likely given the ratio of his size to his style of play.  I'm not giving up on the Smurf just quite yet for 2 reasons:

  1. it seems like there are other small, skilled players that didn't break out until they were a bit older.  Tyler Johnson comes to mind.  
  2. Tolchinsky showed flashes of some of what I think Peters is looking for in his 2nd game up last year (speed & an ability to move the puck forward that not many other Canes had).

Granted, they were just flashes, but it was only his 2nd NHL game.  I'm not saying he's a lock or even likely, but my impression is that he showed a lot of progress over the course of the season in Charlotte last year.  I'm waiting to see what he does in Charlotte this year before making any predictions about the Smurf.

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Hurricanes are still too clubby a franchise signing the nice guy types. As a team they lack the necessary attitude and swagger that gets teams deep into the playoffs. Fighting is losing steam in the NHL but not meanness. Maybe this season a killer instinct emerges, maybe not. Until they show some bona fide nasty in their game PNC will not be a hard rink to play in for the visitors.

 

Sorry, not sure I can agree with you 100% on that one.  Teams like Pitt and Dallas are doing it with speed, not physicality.  And I think Bill Peter's sparse use of Brad Malone last season might have been due in part to a desire to avoid giving up excessive penalties.  

 

Which is not to say that the team doesn't need to protect it's own. There shouldn't be another incident like the one with Skinner against Buffalo.  Hopefully that became a teaching opportunity towards some of our yutes (as well as several of our veterans).   

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I'm not giving up on Tolchinsky because I never thought he had much of a chance anyway.

 

He's always been a long shot.  But at least he's an exciting one (at least in my eyes, anyways). 

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Very true Lake.

 

It just looks to me like he's moving down the depth chart with each forward acquisition and draft.  Same with McGinn.

 

Agree.  Tolchinsky will likely need to start lighting it up in Charlotte and then make the most of his chances when he's called up for spot duty due to injury or a slump. But the positive thing is that this is the way a franchise with any degree of depth should be operating imo.  Instead of putting a yute into a slot and hoping he works out.  We've had way too much of that in the past . . .

 

Another positive is that even if the Smurf doesn't contribute to the Canes short term, hopefully he'll make hockey in Charlotte that much more exciting.

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I'm not ready to give up on either McGinn or Tolchinsky, though I do admit that their window will close quicker than it might have given all the competition, and if they don't dazzle early they could fall down the depth chart quickly.

 

Tolchinsky has only had one professional season. Has those sick skills, but has to make them work at his size in the NHL. Just too early to give up IMHO, but he is still a bit of a long shot.

 

McGinn has definitely struggled at the NHL level. I've always liked his game and may be a bit partial to him due to that, but he is only entering his 3rd professional season, and is only 22. Last year in Charlotte though he scored 19 goals and 35 points in just 48 games (32 goal, 60 point pace over 82 games. I realize that he may never translate this to the NHL and I would guess he really has to pop this year or he might miss his chance, but not toast yet IMHO.

Edited by remkin

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Well, Brock McGinn has a year left on his entry deal and he hasn't done himself any favors.  He looked lost at speed outside that first shift when he's been given a shot.

 

Tolchinsky has a couple of years left on his deal as the Canes are drafting 6'3 guys who can skate. 

 

Just don't see anything in the cards with Tolchinsky.

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Tolchinsky's best hope is to pattern himself after Aho, but I think even with his elite puck-handling skills, his size is going to make a permanent slot anywhere above the fourth line difficult. That being said, he *could* become that fourth liner who pesters the heck out of people, gives you a legit shorty threat, and uses his energy on the PP to get the opposing D running around.

 

I think BP sees potential in McGinn, but the quickness of his return to CLT after his second and particularly his third call-ups indicates a particular area of his game is lacking. Morris might have seen progress in CLT, but it clearly didn't translate to NHL ice. This off-season is probably big for him (like several others) in terms of getting into prime physical shape. Somehow I don't think fishing in Ontario, Canada is an acceptable off-season regimen in this organEYEZAYtion anymore.  :lol:

 

Agree with others that the upcoming camp is big for both guys in terms of their slots on the depth chart. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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The way GMRF is building, the fringe guys like McGinn and Tochinsky need to fish or cut bait. The TT's, Sarelas and Zykovs of the world, plus the drafted guys are pushing them down the pecking order. The days of hanging around long enough to get in because of lack of organizational talent (Boychuk, I'm eyeballin' you) are gone.

Edited by super_dave_1

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The smurf prototype was Martin St Smurf, and he led the league in scoring and was built like a terminator, so that is what canessmurf is up against for smurf success in the NHL.

 

Become a sniper and never get hit.

Edited by hag65

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Sorry, not sure I can agree with you 100% on that one.  Teams like Pitt and Dallas are doing it with speed, not physicality.  And I think Bill Peter's sparse use of Brad Malone last season might have been due in part to a desire to avoid giving up excessive penalties.  

 

Which is not to say that the team doesn't need to protect it's own. There shouldn't be another incident like the one with Skinner against Buffalo.  Hopefully that became a teaching opportunity towards some of our yutes (as well as several of our veterans).   

 

I can partially agree with you that yes speed and skill is a larger part of Dallas and Pitts game but they bring the nasty when needed where the Canes can't; a necessary ingredient to win the tough/physical games.  Dallas has Antoine Rousell a bona fide in your face player, Jamie Benn Captain plays mean in front of the net and will drop them against anyone, Jason Demers is a rough customer on D to name 3. Pitt has an approach to the game to play anyway necessary to get the win. Finesse, check. Edgy, check. Dirty when nedeed, check. The amount of penalty's Pitt took in 2015-16 throughout their roster far exceeds the Canes; meaning nasty is a big component to win Cups.  Thats what the Canes don't have at least as of this writing.

 

Bleacher Report has an article on where Evander Kane could/should be traded.  Carolina is one of the 5 teams mentioned.  I have no idea what they would need to give up to get him but he is the bona fide level of nasty and edge the Canes could use while having solid skills and speed to play Peters system. He plays like a Wayne Simmonds another edgy player that no-one likes to tangle with. Maybe Kane's matured and we could be the beneficiary.  The kids tougher than anyone on our roster. We are just not a tough enough team to play against. PNC is not a hard rink to play in for the visitors. Just my .02.

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The Ducks led the league in penalty minutes and therefore should have obviously won the Cup.  :huh:

 

On Evander Kane, he is the Johnny Manziel of hockey.

 

A big no thanks.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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In terms of Tochinsky and McGinn, it probably is a matter of semantics. I agree that their chances slipped. But what I am seeing is that there is a lot of nice shiny new prospects in the 18-20 age range that may push up this year, but also are probably a year or two off.

 

McGinn and Tolchinsky are in that 21-22 age group, who would be Juniors or Seniors in college and way below their peak age, who could still improve over the summer and if so, would be the most logical first call ups. They are just not yet past their window.

 

Yes, if the young studs break out before one of them does, it will further close their window, but it is not yet fully closed.

 

And McGinn, while yet to show NHL caliber play, has impressed in the AHL.

 

The prospect guys in that age group: 21-22 are Collier, Karlson, McGinn, Poturalski, Zykov, Tolchinski.

 

Again, I do get that McGinn and Tolchinski have not shown NHL chops yet, and that decreases the chance that they ever will.

Edited by remkin

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Evander Kane is the Johnny Manziel of hockey.

 

A big no thanks.

I have to agree with this one. I'm all about finding value in "misunderstood guys", and pats self on back about Drouin, but this guy has had so much smoke around him that there has to be fire somewhere. There is too much risk here.

 

If they want to just dump him on us maybe, but I can't see giving up anything to get this problem child.

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On Kane..lets wait until we finish paying off the Semin experiment before we take on another self centered, troubled, immature head case.

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The way GMRF is building, the fringe guys like McGinn and Tochinsky need to fish or cut bait. The TT's, Sarelas and Zykovs of the world, plus the drafted guys are pushing them down the pecking order. The days of hanging around long enough to get in because of lack of organizational talent (Boychuk, I'm eyeballin' you) are gone.

 

Since we've got nothing much else to talk about for a while:

 

Let's start with agreeing that the Boychuk/ Terry days are thankfully gone. 

 

But the question I've got is: where does development stop and fringe begin?  As long as a prospect is continually improving, not at 21yo, imo.   Let's start with the obvious: Tolchinsky is a smurf, which is an obstacle.  But he's also arguably more skilled with the puck than any of last year's Canes not named Skinner. I don't know how that compares with our new additions, but if any of our other yutes have Tolchinsky's handle plus size? Whoo Hoo!!!

 

I see Tolchinsky as currently being in the development process rather than at a crossroads.  He showed consistent improvement over his career in the OHL, putting up half a goal a game and over 1.5 points a game his last year there. From what I heard, he showed improvement over his 1st year of pro hockey in Charlotte and he ended up 4th on the team in scoring.  He's still only 21 years old, and I haven't heard anyone knowledgeable indicate that he's plateaued.  Sure, TT and Aho are way above the Smurf when it comes to potential. But they seem in a different category, replacements for departed Canes rather than prospects.  Zykov is also 21 and his numbers at each stage of his career so far are lower than Tolchinsky's.  We've got some big kids who've had success in juniors, but the question remains as to whether they can translate that to NHL success once they're not overpowering teenagers, just like the question remains as to whether Tolchinsky can transform his skill into success at higher levels.  I don't know much about Saarela or how to interpret his numbers from Europe; his highest praise seems to be that he may have have some Aho in him (who, in spite of great promise, hasn't proven anything at the NHL level yet either). 

 

I'm certainly not saying that I think Tolchinsky is a lock. I just don't think our new yutes have hurt his chances nearly as much as some of the rest of you.  And for the record, I'll be thrilled if our other prospects make him "fringe", but I think that's putting the cart a bit before the horse.    

 

The smurf prototype was Martin St Smurf, and he led the league in scoring and was built like a terminator, so that is what canessmurf is up against for smurf success in the NHL.

 

Become a sniper and never get hit.

 

Now we've got Johnny Gadreau; not built like a terminator, but still an elusive sniper who doesn't get hit.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Now we've got Johnny Gadreau; not built like a terminator, but still an elusive sniper who doesn't get hit.

 

I have to admit I haven't watched him play but looking at his numbers, I'd have to agree he is the current alpha-smurf.

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If Canes could signed a vet D to a 2 year deal for expansion exposer would u do a Murphy, Nesty, & the lower pick out of the canes or Rags 2nd for Tyler Johnson???

 

TB is more likely to trade someone to be able to sign Kucherov. That would give TB 3M more to sign both of their RFAs.

 

Johnson had a bit of an off year last year, but had 50pts, & 72 pts the previous 2 years. He did go on a PPG tear in the playoffs. Johnson would be a RFA after this season.

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If Canes could signed a vet D to a 2 year deal for expansion exposer would u do a Murphy, Nesty, & the lower pick out of the canes or Rags 2nd for Tyler Johnson???

Nope. He's small, and a center. We're fully stocked in both departments.

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But he's also arguably more skilled with the puck than any of last year's Canes not named Skinner. 

I think the premise is flawed. Comparing Tolchinsky to last year's roster dodges the real issue: Can he make the current one? Great skills, no question. But Aho and TT are the ones pushing him down the depth chart. If he's at a crossroads - and I tend to agree that it's too early to say that - the way we're building is the reason why.

 

If he wants to play in the top nine, I don't think anything less than Marty/Gaudreau production gets it done. But he could become that fourth-line energy guy with the skills to provide scoring and get spotted on the PP. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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