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Playing devil's advocate, I am assuming you have never been to a Canes game scheduled during the State Fair.  I have.

 

It just can't possibly be done at the same time.  It's a nightmare.

 

post-58475-Morgan-Freeman-hes-right-you-

 

Most every team has to make room for another event at some point on the schedule.  The State Fair was in Raleigh long before the Canes.  Traffic and parking would be a nightmare, and most likely very low attendance because of that.

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post-58475-Morgan-Freeman-hes-right-you-

 

Most every team has to make room for another event at some point on the schedule.  The State Fair was in Raleigh long before the Canes.  Traffic and parking would be a nightmare, and most likely very low attendance because of that.

 

Traffic and parking WAS a nightmare.  They tried.  They failed.

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I'm sure this has already been worked through, but one does wonder if the State Fair could go just a tad earlier. I bet we could do pre-season games during the fair. Must be a reason, just seems like a couple of weeks would do it.

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post-58475-Morgan-Freeman-hes-right-you-

 

Most every team has to make room for another event at some point on the schedule.  The State Fair was in Raleigh long before the Canes.  Traffic and parking would be a nightmare, and most likely very low attendance because of that.

I really don't care what was tried years ago. Traffic management has grown by leaps and bounds, and it's silly to put the team in a hole right out of the gate "just because."

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And you know what else? If you go to a big event in a big public venue, you should EXPECT traffic. A few days of mayhem - and that assumes everything is handled as ham-handedly now as it was in the (now ancient) past - so what? It still beats being at work.   :lol:

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I think these are great points and I could not agree more.

 

The October hump is critical for so many reasons: If you are too far out by Thanksgiving your playoff chances plummet. See the last two years. Also, well, see the last two years: This team needs something for people to get excited about. If this team came out of the shoot and went 7-3*, people would look up and say, huh? Then come home and do well and interest would build. I've seen it in past years, and by late January attendance is building. Casual fans need to see this team is different, and a good start would be different. Also, as a young team trying to find it's way with some new additions, one would guess they will get better as time goes on. So a decent start will set that up.

 

*I'm honestly just asking for around real .500, and we'll be fine, but a surprise jump out of the gates would build buzz.

 

The OT/SO thing is also critical. Because of our shot limiting and shot generating, we are in a lot of close games. We were 2-5 in shootouts #25, and out 3 on 3 record was bad too. We lead the league in OT losses. When you are fighting the cut line, those points are big. We have been bad at these two for years. And it makes sense. The coaching, defense, possession, etc, go out the door and it comes down to skill of skaters and skill of goalie. And those have been the issue for a long time.

 

The Corsi and advanced stats suggest that the structure is there. But the finish and the goaltending, the final step, has not been there.

 

I am hopeful that the combination of new additions and skilled players moving up on their growth curve will get us enough goals to make the playoffs, but probably not contend yet for the cup. On the goaltending the fingers are crossed a bit more tightly.

 

+2 per month for the 6 months of season is +12 for the season and 94 points which is IN almost every season.

 

2 lousy games over fake .500 a month.  That's all I ask.

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I really don't care what was tried years ago. Traffic management has grown by leaps and bounds, and it's silly to put the team in a hole right out of the gate "just because."

 

No offense, and I know its frustrating, but now your just being silly. 

 

The infrastructure surrounding the State Fair, NCSU, and the arena have not magically grown by leaps and bounds.  It just hasn't, therefore traffic "management" doesn't factor in at all.  You can't shovel 5 lbs of *edit* in a bucket that only holds 3 lbs of *edit* now matter how high tech your shovel is.  Your really just showing your unfamiliarity with the area and road network. 

 

I can't get my head around why you won't listen to people that were actually there when the State Fair overlapped with Canes hockey (and NCSU football) and who know more than you do about how traffic flows in that area.

 

Hockey fans who do know what's up won't show up if those events were to overlap again.  It simply doesn't work.  Now if you wanted to argue for a downtown arena (which I won't argue for) as an alternative solution this might be something to use as ammo.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I'm sure this has already been worked through, but one does wonder if the State Fair could go just a tad earlier. I bet we could do pre-season games during the fair. Must be a reason, just seems like a couple of weeks would do it.

 

The Canes and the Centennial Authority don't control the State Fair.  The NC Dept of Agriculture does and they are on record as saying the State Fair schedule is non-negotiable.

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I think it's more of an inconvenience for the fans than the team because of the State Fair road trip.  It sucks to start the season on a long road trip, but the team still gets the same amount of home games.   I imagine the Fair has a pretty good economic impact on the area.  I'd like to own one of those muddy pastures they use for parking during the fair.

Edited by super_dave_1

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It would be a moot point were the Canes to avoid the October hole they always fall into.  Might be a total coincidence - they might fall in the hole even if they started the season with a homestand - but the fact the team notoriously starts off so slow makes it easy to point to the annual road trip as huge detriment.

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There is no question in my mind that goal tending is still a big question. So much depends on both goalies having a good year but the goal tending has been good enough to win games if we can score. The problem is we haven't been able to score goals and you aren't going to beat many teams in this league if you can't score 3 or more goals in a game.

 

I'm not convinced we yet have a team that can consistently put the puck in the net but I'm hoping we do. I am convinced I am excited about training camp to find out.

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No offense, and I know its frustrating, but now your just being silly. 

 

The infrastructure surrounding the State Fair, NCSU, and the arena have not magically grown by leaps and bounds.  It just hasn't, therefore traffic "management" doesn't factor in at all.  You can't shovel 5 lbs of *edit* in a bucket that only holds 3 lbs of *edit* now matter how high tech your shovel is.  Your really just showing your unfamiliarity with the area and road network. 

 

I can't get my head around why you won't listen to people that were actually there when the State Fair overlapped with Canes hockey (and NCSU football) and who know more than you do about how traffic flows in that area.

 

Hockey fans who do know what's up won't show up if those events were to overlap again.  It simply doesn't work.  Now if you wanted to argue for a downtown arena (which I won't argue for) as an alternative solution this might be something to use as ammo.

I'm not suggesting hockey fans show up. I'm suggesting hockey is cross-marketed to the fair attendees to draw them over.

 

Regarding traffic management, counters, advances in sensor technology, and a coordinated data collection effort which assimilates the info provided by these instruments, and through which the flows of traffic are directed from the data center to the on-the-ground lot attendants and police, can greatly improve traffic flow. Combined with careful coordination between both orgs, the Fair and a simultaneous sporting event can become a carefully choreographed and mutually beneficial, multi-night bonanza for all who partake.

 

In my opinion :) 

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Canes went 8-2-1 in October in 2005.

 

It can be done.

5-0 at home, 3-2-1 on the road. That's right, five October home games--and every away game was in our own time zone. 

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I'm not suggesting hockey fans show up. I'm suggesting hockey is cross-marketed to the fair attendees to draw them over.

 

Regarding traffic management, counters, advances in sensor technology, and a coordinated data collection effort which assimilates the info provided by these instruments, and through which the flows of traffic are directed from the data center to the on-the-ground lot attendants and police, can greatly improve traffic flow. Combined with careful coordination between both orgs, the Fair and a simultaneous sporting event can become a carefully choreographed and mutually beneficial, multi-night bonanza for all who partake.

 

In my opinion :)

 

You've never been to the State Fair have you?  Anyway, you should contact Troxler and speak with him directly about the economic impact of the NC State Fair on the local economy and convince him a hockey game at the same time is a great idea.  I think he would tell you to....well, he would say it's worth bumping the Canes from town for six games.  ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I will say this.

 

The team could try to get out to Winnipeg early and adjust to the time a little. There are no back to backs.

 

Winnipeg, Vancouver, Oliers, Flames, Flyers and Red Wings. Every one of those is winnable.

 

We've had trouble in Philly over the years, but the Red Wings and Vancouver are in down years.

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You've never been to the State Fair have you?  Anyway, you should contact Troxler and speak with him directly about the economic impact of the NC State Fair on the local economy and convince him a hockey game at the same time is a great idea.  I think he would tell you to....well, he would say it's worth bumping the Canes from town for six games.  ;)

I'm really not interested in what Troxler thinks. The State Fair owns the complex, and could take steps to improve ingress/egress for its patrons. The Ag community loves to yap about the right to "free enterprise," but apparently everybody else is expected to suspend THEIR right to it for 10 days in October, just because the State Fair is too cheap to improve the infrastructure surrounding its own event.

 

Carter-Finley/PNC have more-than-adequate traffic infrastructure on two boundaries. Post-game traffic is only nightmarish during the State Fair because of the State Fair. The traffic infrastructure bordering the State Fairgrounds is woeful--and the Hurricanes pay the price. 

 

Troxler could sacrifice - to the state which has supported the Fair since 1853 - a few of the 344 acres the State Fair owns to expand the roads abutting its grounds and running through it: Youth Center Drive, Blue Ridge Rd and Hillsborough Street. Doing that, and restricting ingress and egress of traffic for the Fair during concurrent events to the Fair's south and east - while PNC/Carter-Finley direct traffic to the north and west - would do away with the traffic nightmare the State Fair so protests, and both the Fair and other businesses would mutually benefit. But that bigger picture and its additional windfall is - apparently - of no interest to Troxler.

 

In the meantime, the Canes at a minimum should schedule October home games in Charlotte.

 

(Heh. Must be the off-season, eh, coastal? ;) I'll be soooo glad when the puck drops... I don't care if it's in Siberia!)

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Top, I have to question the way you want to spend my tax dollars to completely redesign an infrastructure to account for a 10 day event that was taking place for 140 years before the Canes came to town.  I think your tin foil hat may have fallen off.  Find it, and put it back on.

 

("just joking" alert)

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Top, I have to question the way you want to spend my tax dollars to completely redesign an infrastructure to account for a 10 day event that was taking place for 140 years before the Canes came to town.  I think your tin foil hat may have fallen off.  Find it, and put it back on.

 

("just joking" alert)

So, you prefer bad roads and limiting opportunities for economic growth? I wouldn't call improving traffic infrastructure to support the increase in vehicular traffic to the fairgrounds "completely redesigning," just necessary updating.

 

Other events happen all year long at the fairgrounds. Making the traffic flow better in the area surrounding the property, and making it possible to hold events simultaneously with ones occurring there, would only increase Raleigh's marketability as a convention and major-event destination. That would bring more money to the city, the State Fair, and increase commerce more broadly, while giving convention-goers other events to enjoy in close proximity.

 

I guess the question for me is why WOULDN'T a city/state seeking to thrive put the infrastructure in place that allows it to happen? RDU worked before the new terminal--but how much better is it now?

 

And thanks--didn't realize I'd lost the hat! 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I will say this.

 

The team could try to get out to Winnipeg early and adjust to the time a little. There are no back to backs.

Trouble is, Winnipeg is only an hour behind. Jet lag will hit - if it does - on the back end of the trip, after the team has flown back east to Philly, west again to Detroit, and back here for - what else? - the home games.

 

I really don't get why we go three time zones away on this trip every year. If we're gonna get booted from own arena, we should at least lobby the league hard to sked our October games in the east. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Truth is the NC State Fair out grew that old site a long time ago. 

Thank you. But now it's "historic," so they won't move--which is fine, provided they help update the infrastructure serving the site.

 

In new construction zoning, developers are routinely required to provide part of their tracts for public access like dedicated ingress/egress lanes and overall widening of the roads serving the site, to accommodate the increased trips that the new construction will create.

 

The fact that the Fair began before such requirements became SOP shouldn't prevent it from meeting the same standard. Grandfathering is one thing, but when the broader community is adversely affected and the subject organization steadfastly refuses to adapt, that's not grandfathering anymore. It's just being intractable.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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