Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
remkin

2016 DRAFT talk

Recommended Posts

In simpler terms - he stuck with the plan.

 

If you don't want to see the sausage made. Wait, that might be a bad analogy. Don't you make all kinds of sausage? :letssee: . Seem to remember that somehow...

 

But, in it's most reduced form, yes, he stuck with the plan, but not Plan A. Circumstances forced him to go with plan B, still part of the overall conditional plan though.

 

I really think Francis planned to try to get some piece of Keller/Jost/Brown/Nylander. That was also the plan.  He probably planned several ways to try to trade up, also part of the plan.

 

In the end that didn't work, so we went plan B. Still, the best available plan at the time (probably, only time will tell).

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the cool thing is that even if he has to switch to a plan B, it never gets in the way of the long-term plan A.

 

Plus the long-term plan stays consistent.  One year JR's plan would be puck-moving defensemen so he'd go out and find a dozen of them and give up the entire farm to get them.  Then the next year his plan would be hard-hitting defensemen so he'd go out and find a dozen of them and give up all of the puck movers who he hadn't given NTCs to, a few draft picks, and our entire 3rd-line to get them...

Edited by realmdrakkar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't want to see the sausage made. Wait, that might be a bad analogy. Don't you make all kinds of sausage? :letssee: . Seem to remember that somehow...

 

But, in it's most reduced form, yes, he stuck with the plan, but not Plan A. Circumstances forced him to go with plan B, still part of the overall conditional plan though.

 

I really think Francis planned to try to get some piece of Keller/Jost/Brown/Nylander. That was also the plan.  He probably planned several ways to try to trade up, also part of the plan.

 

In the end that didn't work, so we went plan B. Still, the best available plan at the time (probably, only time will tell).

 

No reason to be snarky.

 

Your speculating all over the place.  I'm not.

 

We don't know the details of any thing that was happening on the floor [yet].  I'm not saying you are wrong by any stretch.  I also would like to know if he was trying to make a deal to move up.  But your coming across like you actually have some inside knowledge of what went down.

 

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No reason to be snarky.

 

Your speculating all over the place.  I'm not.

 

We don't know the details of any thing that was happening on the floor [yet].  I'm not saying you are wrong by any stretch.  I also would like to know if he was trying to make a deal to move up.  But your coming across like you actually have some inside knowledge of what went down.

 

Seriously, I apologize if that came off snarky. Really didn't intend it to. The sausage thing was actually a nod that I know you are a wild game expert, not meant to be an insult.

 

I am speculating a bit. Some is fact. Some is based on quotes from the brain trust. Some is speculation.

I assume that stick with the plan means draft and develop and stay away from older players with fat contracts mainly.

 

My actual proposals and hopes for a trade up would not have gone against the plan of draft and develop. It would have just meant drafting differently. It is hard to believe that we went into this draft hoping to draft a defenseman. I get why we did it, but that was the plan? Maybe, but that's speculation too then. I was just trying to say that there was more to my long, speculative post, than "stick with the plan".

 

I am going by McDonald, who said there were 4 forwards they wanted. Everything else pivots off of that. The rest is pretty likely, though admittedly speculative.  To get a forward on the "4 guys" list, we would have to trade up. That's really not even speculation, it really just a process of elimination and what actually happened (actually drafting a defenseman).

 

It is speculation to say that Francis tried to move up. He might not have. But really, didn't he almost have to at least ask what the price would be? It isn't too much of a stretch, with 3 third rounders to think he'd have paid one of them to move up. So the price must have been higher, and he must not have wanted to pay it.

 

That it was a second rounder is pure speculation on my part. I have no knowledge of that.

 

It is possible that they had Bean so much above Jost/Keller/Brown/Nylander that even if we picked 7-10 we would have picked Bean. That too would be speculation though.

 

Anyways, I like to speculate. I try to label it as speculation, or quote or link to facts, but sometimes it gets mixed up.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Francis gets that prospects and cap space is the new currency in the league.  He isn't going to overpay for anything.  I don't see this as a "Plan B" thing at all.  I'd imagine they wanted one of the forwards to fall, but stuck with the plan of taking the best player available.  Got Gauthier at 21 takes the sting away from another old boring d-man at 13.  Look around the interweb and take a look at the draft grades.  I know that it's an inexact science (to say the least), but the Canes are looked at as having an excellent draft.

 

Understand that the draft is a crystal ball looking 2 to 3 years down the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, unless and until we find out what went down at the table, the whole move up, or not thing, is speculation.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rem, no worries, I guess I just took the comment the wrong way. 

 

SD really captures my thoughts.

 

I would love to know what happened on the floor but I seriously doubt that we will get much more out of Fort Francis. ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thnx Coastal.

 

I agree Super Dave. Mixed into my super long speculative post was the sentiment that given where we picked, we did very well.

 

Have to put it in context. We were not picking at the top.

 

And Bean looks good too.

 

For me, if Gauthier turns into the steal I think he will be, it will be all smiles when he is flying down the wing and potting goals in front of the net in the NHL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gauthier may be about the only 18 year old kid that I have seen get drafted that does not need to put on any muscle to play in the league.  The kid has the body of a Greek God, or a WWE superstar.  I don't have a clue how a kid that age puts on that kind of muscle.  Of course his dad and grandpa are body builders, so I guess he had a weight bench in his play pen.  If the team can maximize his potential, he could be a special player.

 

It may look like Francis is driving in the slow lane with his blinker on, but he isn't driving the car in the ditch.

Edited by super_dave_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Francis doesn't give up much but he does give hints on what he is doing. In interviews before the draft he clearly stated he would look on what deals were available. He also said the scouts had multiple candidates at the various picks. Peters also made reference he would be watching RF work his magic. Reports leading up to the draft appeared to indicate francis had been working the phones.


 


None of us know for sure but Francis strikes me as GM with a plan but also the reality that circumstance may alter the parts to make that plan wok. He also appears (to me) to be a GM that accumulates less desirable assets in order to secure a desirable asset. He also isn't afraid to think two or three moves in advance. This guy (RF) is not a one dimensional thinker IMO


 


The short version: There is more than one way to skin a cat.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 He also isn't afraid to think two or three moves in advance.

 

Every time he gives an interview that's what I'm thinking.  He's really thinking 3 moves ahead but is giving us the GM speak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every time he gives an interview that's what I'm thinking.  He's really thinking 3 moves ahead but is giving us the GM speak.

 

He learned his craft well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He learned his craft well. 

Well, he sure didn't learn it from JR...he was looking three trades down the road...or three more bags of pucks down the road...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. Francis has his eyes on different horizons at the same time too. There is immediate needs, this year needs, the next couple of years needs, and long long term (in pro sports terms that's 4-5 years or so).

 

Since he wants to methodically build a long term, consistent cup contender (like the Hawks or Redwings (past), etc) he constantly seems to have his main discipline in the 2-3 year time frame. What I mean is that whatever he does, he is not going to hurt that team.

 

And overall it seems to be working. He is picking up parts the best he can, but the common denominator is young talented assets being accumulated in numbers now. Like a mix of seeds and saplings being sewn. As they grow, ultimately it will produce depth, but also more pieces than we need, that can be moved for other parts in later phases.

 

The really amazing thing to me is that he is doing it without getting bad enough to get to pick the Auston Matthews of the world, not even close. Aho, TT, maybe Gauthier, and more. And it is good too, because it's hard to see us getting bad enough to go that way any time soon.

 

But I completely agree that he is not one dimensional or fixed on one plan with no thought to other ways to help the team. He made an offer to Eric apparently. He re-signed Ward. And I'll give one piece of inside info, Francis offered Sekera a deal that was very close to what he ended up getting with the Oilers, but Sekera balked. After the dollar exchange and taxes, he's making less now, and has to live in Edmonton. It's not like he was hell bent on short-changing Sekera to get the pick and prospect, which would be the one plan way to go. He knew Sekera could be a nice piece to have, but the deal had to make sense.

 

He clearly has a long term plan: draft and develop. Try to avoid bad long term contracts (and full NTC's). Get a great coach with the right system. And get guys who want to be here and practice and play the right way. The plan includes all of those i think.

 

Deals, even UFA's are not impossible, but he is not going to pay a lot for this muffler, and the guy has to want to be here, even in a trade.

 

So far it has been a joy to watch him at work. Even when it doesn't go the way I was hoping, I am confident he is making us better, and massively knows better than me.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the lack of deal by RF has less to do with him and more to do with several other GMs.  There was a ton of chatter about CBJ, EDM, ARI and even Buffalo being ready to listen and deal.  What do they all have in common?  They overplayed their hand.

 

I'm glad RF didn't act or get fleeced like the Yotes did by DET.  So much smoke and talk.  Cost RF nothing to listen, but no deals for ANY of those top picks tells the story IMO.

 

Given the recent record I'm thrilled with the top 3 picks by RF and team, and hope for some luck on the later round selections, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I'm right in my speculation that moving to #10 or even #11 might have cost us our second round pick, who did we get by not doing that and what did our brain trust think of him?

 

Janne Kuokkanen, C, Karpat Jr. (Finland)

MacDonald’s take: “He’s a very skilled player. There’s a little bit of Sebastian Aho’s game in Janne Kuokkanen’s game. He’s a skilled player with good speed. He put up very impressive numbers in the Finnish junior league. We haven’t seen the best of what he has to offer yet. He’s going to develop into a real good prospect.”

 

Francis’ take: “What I like about him is his elite, elite hockey sense. Watching him play, especially at the U-18s, he does some things that remind you in some way to Sebastian Aho. For us, it was exciting to be able to get him. He was a guy we were targeting.”

 

Takes on all of the other picks on the main page: (they sound pretty high on Filipe too).

 

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=887395&cmpid=rss-smith

 

 

Well if Aho turns out the way it looks like he will, I'll take both guys saying Kuokkanen reminds them of Aho. Though his name is much harder to spell.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at Gauthier's size, he would be the perfect poster boy for an AHL exemption (that such a thing should exist).

 

I guess go back to Juniors and learn to pass a couple of times, but seems like he'd be good in the AHL upping his competition, but not quite NHL speed.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for all that may know:

 

How does a team manage to get the player's name on the jersey for the draft?

 

First 5 picks, I can imagine a team has that pretty much "sewn up".

 

But beyond that it is murky.

 

I say this because I noticed that the Canes had Gauthier put on a jersey WITH HIS NAME.  That says a lot to me.  I think they had him at 21 all along.   I noticed other teams at that timeframe gave players generic jerseys.

 

Or is there something else here?  Do they have 50 patches, ready to go, and some elf under the table tacks them on the jersey?

 

Seriously, I think it says a lot.  Did anyone see whether Bean's name was on the jersey?

Edited by wxray1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always been under the impression they have 'slap-on' names.  Can't imagine they're walking in with multiple-named jerseys 'just in case' and no way they can foresee 21 picks into the draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Velcro :)

 

The have several name plates with velcro on them, & one jersey with the opposite side velcro on it. Or in the Canes case they had two jerseys for the first round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hurricanes made the most of their two picks on Day 1, grabbing defenseman Jake Bean and right winger Julien Gauthier. Bean will add to the Hurricanes' stacked defensive pool and they also nabbed Gauthier, who fell further than many predicted at No. 21. A solid defenseman and a steal pick at the end of the first round put the Hurricanes over the hump to a stellar first day of the draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Velcro :)

 

The have several name plates with velcro on them, & one jersey with the opposite side velcro on it. Or in the Canes case they had two jerseys for the first round.

 

Ah, makes sense.  No elves necessary.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...