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remkin

2016 DRAFT talk

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Well there is definitely a strong bias against trading, and the higher the pick the bigger that bias. It is true that getting into the top 3 is unlikely.

 

I do wonder about getting to #5 or 6 and grabbing Tkachuk or DuBois though.

 

Mostly every draft is mostly GM's  just stepping up and picking in place.

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Edmonton needs another Forward like we all need another (whatever comes to mind....).

 

If they do use the pick, then they should be looking to deal a current roster player.  It'll come down to whether RF and team have a guy in kind they really want, and then a wait until the earlier picks are in on Draft Day.

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With the top 5 likely being forwards and their lack of need for forwards, i could totally see them trading the #4 pick to drop 2 or 3 spots and still get Sergachev/Chychrun/Juolevi if it gets them a good-enough extra defenseman in return.  But i don't see them wanting to drop all the way to #13 for anything short of Faulk, and despite my documented lack of confidence in Faulk, i think he's worth more than the #4.  EDM's the obvious place to look for young forwards, but i no longer see them as a viable trade partner after yesterday's lottery.

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I think they might be interested in this trade:

 

Carolina: #4 overall 2016

 

Edmonton: #13 overall 2016, Roland McKeown

 

They don't need defenseman, they need right shot defenseman. With this trade, they get a ready, or nearly so, RHD player that could legitimately start on their 3rd pairing and maybe work his way up the lineup over the season, plus the 13th pick which puts them in the reasonable range for selecting the better RHD in the draft; Bean or Fabbro. Just dropping back into the middle of the top ten still only gets them the LHD prospects, something that they probably have enough of for three pairings.

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I hadn't even looked at their LHD vs RHD - i just knew they needed defensemen.  Downside is that even with our stack of defensemen, we're actually much thinner in RHD as well.  Which is part of what puts the extra premium on Faulk and, yes, McKeown...

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I was actually a RHD in my pickup games though... think they'd sign an overweight 48-year-old who's currently taking medication for gout and who can barely walk from one side of the living room to the other, much less put on skates at the moment?

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I think they might be interested in this trade:

 

Carolina: #4 overall 2016

 

Edmonton: #13 overall 2016, Roland McKeown

 

They don't need defenseman, they need right shot defenseman. With this trade, they get a ready, or nearly so, RHD player that could legitimately start on their 3rd pairing and maybe work his way up the lineup over the season, plus the 13th pick which puts them in the reasonable range for selecting the better RHD in the draft; Bean or Fabbro. Just dropping back into the middle of the top ten still only gets them the LHD prospects, something that they probably have enough of for three pairings.

I like the idea of this, but I think that for now we'll be clinging to all our RHD like grim death. After all the years of struggle on D and the pleasant surprise of this year - and, good as they were, the possibility of sophomore slumps for Pesce, Hanifin and Slavin - I think (hope) we are still viewing our D-velopment as a work in progress, just to ensure we err on the side of caution.

 

That's why, for this off-season and maybe next, my money is on - well, money. And picks. We have enough $$ now that we can get the O pieces we need short-term, and if they work out, maybe they become longer-term deals. We have tons of picks to fill in the O side of the development pool. And thanks to the TD, we have two and maybe three forwards who could step in right now.

 

With Eric's contract gone and with the savings we will realize from Cam's, I think we bring in two top-nine RWs. Maybe one is an FA we sign long-term; the second a Versteeg type. This narrows the available forward slots, gives Lindholm and Rask veterans to work with, and raises the level of competition for the remaining slots among our prospects.

 

Beyond that, I believe next year is largely for determining whether Rask and Lindholm are our centers of the future. The answers will determine whether we need to pick up top forward talent next off-season, while giving our prospects another year of development. 

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Unless there is some sort of impact now / rock star available during our 1st - 1st round pick, I am of the opinion that we should trade it for an impact now roster player.  Be that a guy who can play wing on the 1st or 2nd line (preferably RW).  With the recent acquisition of Saraala and with both Aho, Wallmark, and Roy coming down the pipe.  I say go for prospects in the later rounds.  We need roster players and we will be way better off if we don't get into a bidding war come UFA for 2 50 point/year wingers.

Edited by bluedevil58

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I hadn't even looked at their LHD vs RHD

 

Which is a major failure as most around here start throwing out defensive trades with no consideration of how a balanced defense is built, and how hard it is to find a first-pairing right shot defenseman and build depth on that side.

 

See MinJaBen's post above, he gets it and saves me from having to sound like a broken record on trade proposals.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Unless there is some sort of impact now / rock star available during our 1st - 1st round pick, I am of the opinion that we should trade it for an impact now roster player.  Be that a guy who can play wing on the 1st or 2nd line (preferably RW).  With the recent acquisition of Saraala and with both Aho, Wallmark, and Roy coming down the pipe.  I say go for prospects in the later rounds.  We need roster players and we will be way better off if we don't get into a bidding war come UFA for 2 50 point/year wingers.

I think bidding wars are off the table regardless. I just don't see Ronnie going there. And I don't think we trade up to one of the top 3.

 

But we have a secret weapon, something we haven't had since Lavi: A system that works. It was largely responsible for our success this year. Looking at our roster, who'da thunk we had any chance of doing as well as we did, especially with Eric's lack of output?

 

I think we're a lot more interested in whether the prospects we have and those we acquire are "team" guys or "me" guys. As the eric experience taught us, in this size market, we need to build a roster of above-average guys while constantly developing a few prospects to become impact players a la Skinner. Until those players bubble up from within, we can afford to buy one--so why give up picks? 

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Francis talks draft on The Morning Show

 

 

Not much new info... All options open

 

Yeah. Exploring all options basically. Moving up, moving down, picks for players, etc.

 

He did say that really the only NHL ready guys are at the top: read NOT #13.  Which we pretty much knew too.

 

 

Of course I'm on record saying this, but I feel that all cup winners have one and usually two elite players up front as part of the mix, and I really mean points not just goals. I may be wrong. Clearly others don't agree, but I do think that. Further those guys sell tickets and generate fan base excitement. We have two who are close, but with limitations: Skinner and Jordan, but personally I think we need that guy still. But that guy is hard to get. It takes a major move or picking top 3 in the draft usually. Sure there are guys in the middle of the draft that rise up all the time, but they are surrounded by guys who don't make it at all, so you better pick wisely.

 

I don't know how, but I am hoping that Francis can pool picks and prospects into a deal that lands us an guy with at least elite potential up front. The kind of deals that we've been kicking around in terms of the type of guys we need back: Johansen, Draisaitl, top 3 pick, Drouin, etc. Those deals are hard to find, especially if your defensemen shoot from the wrong side. But I am still hoping for that kind of move.

 

One thing we know, the guys at #13 and #21 are not immediate impact players. So if we want help in the next 2 years from the draft, we need to move picks for players, or move well up in the draft. I know some are good with Rask and Lindholm and Aho, and our current guys going into next year, but I'm not. I don't think Francis is either. Not that he'd ever tell us or anything...

Edited by remkin

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That's all well and good and makes sense but I will say there has been an almost overwhelming opinion around here that these types of players (point producers) can't be found in free agency.

 

I'm not saying the reasons aren't justified (e.g. UFA's won't come here) but that shouldn't exclude at least recognizing that the opportunity exists.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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That's all well and good and makes sense but I will say there has been an almost overwhelming opinion around here that these types of players (point producers) can't be found in free agency.

 

I'm not saying the reasons aren't justified (e.g. UFA's won't come here) but that shouldn't exclude at least recognizing that the opportunity exists.

 

Although we seem to shy away from big dollar signings and some players might not want to come here I agree that opportunity does exist in the free agent market. If all options are really on the table then a FA player signing isn't out of the question.

 

I doubt we make a big splash in FA but we could. We certainly have the money to do it but do we have the team budget to do it?

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Which is a major failure as most around here start throwing out defensive trades with no consideration of how a balanced defense is built, and how hard it is to find a first-pairing right shot defenseman and build depth on that side.

That is precisely why I voted against trading Faulk in the other thread.

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Well, one more thing in the L vs R thing is didn't Slavin come out in an interview and say he was more comfortable on his off-side?  I mean is the concern really LHD vs RHD, or is it simply LD vs RD?  If Slavin is more comfortable on the right side playing left handed and can turn in the season he just turned in, doesn't that at least take some of the L vs R concern away?  Mind you that still only gives 3 RDs instead of 2, but to be sure RF could find a Pothier/Spacek-type journeyman who plays on the right side if McKeown or Faulk were to go anywhere...

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Well, one more thing in the L vs R thing is didn't Slavin come out in an interview and say he was more comfortable on his off-side?  I mean is the concern really LHD vs RHD, or is it simply LD vs RD?  If Slavin is more comfortable on the right side playing left handed and can turn in the season he just turned in, doesn't that at least take some of the L vs R concern away?  Mind you that still only gives 3 RDs instead of 2, but to be sure RF could find a Pothier/Spacek-type journeyman who plays on the right side if McKeown or Faulk were to go anywhere...

 

I think he said he was okay on the right, but his preference is on the left, and Bill Peters specifically mentioned that long term he prefers the D on their natural sides.  Also, considering the severe lack of experience on the blueline, we can't really risk trading Faulk and have some journeyman overslotted.  We'd be better off with Faulk.

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And we're right back to the same positions that were well articulated in the "Trade Faulk?" poll, lol.

 

Of course our defense is better off with Faulk on it than not.  But some of us think that the overall team would be better if we were able to exchange him for a franchise level center legitimate top 30 forward and go with Wiz, Pesce, and a 2nd or 3rd pair pick up on the right side paired with Slavin, Hainsey, and Hanifin on the left.  With the idea that there's a good chance McKeown will be a solid addition on the right in a couple of seasons.   Those folks also probably think that picking up a franchise level center is at least as hard as picking up a decent right shot defenseman. ;)

 

Interestingly enough, the poll ended up split almost right down the middle with the "don't trade" fans registering 1 more vote than the "trade" fans.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Yeah, I've never bought the "guys don't want to come here" thing, but I buy it even less now, for reasons I've stated on other threads: We have the coach of team Canada. We have Brindy. Jordan (assuming...). Skinner. Faulk. Francis. And now, what looks like the best young D in the league.

 

Our money spends the same as everyone else's, and I think the logic suggesting some guys want to play in big-time cities cuts the other way too, especially with guys who have done so for some time and/or have started families. I also expect any FA we really want to get the full treatment, i.e., to sit down with our top players for a bit of a sales job. 

 

And at the risk of beating a dead horse... this is yet one more reason to make sure Jordan is all in. If he can muster some enthusiasm, he could be a big draw to potential FAs.

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Yeah, I've never bought the "guys don't want to come here" thing, but I buy it even less now, for reasons I've stated on other threads: We have the coach of team Canada. We have Brindy. Jordan (assuming...). Skinner. Faulk. Francis. And now, what looks like the best young D in the league.

 

Our money spends the same as everyone else's, and I think the logic suggesting some guys want to play in big-time cities cuts the other way too, especially with guys who have done so for some time and/or have started families. I also expect any FA we really want to get the full treatment, i.e., to sit down with our top players for a bit of a sales job. 

 

And at the risk of beating a dead horse... this is yet one more reason to make sure Jordan is all in. If he can muster some enthusiasm, he could be a big draw to potential FAs.

 

Agreed.  In all my years following this team, there's only been one offseason where Carolina has pursued top UFA's.  

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Agreed.  In all my years following this team, there's only been one offseason where Carolina has pursued top UFA's.  

 

I've only been following the Canes for a couple of years. Has there been a time when they were anywhere close to being as far under the cap limit as this year? 

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Agreed.  In all my years following this team, there's only been one offseason where Carolina has pursued top UFA's.  

 

 

That's mainly because of JRs ridiculous deals - hard to go after UFA's when you have $50million tied up in 6 guys and they all have NTCs.

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While we've had bad contracts, there's always been money to go after 1st and 2nd tier UFA's.  The problem was JR always claimed that July 1 always gives out too much money (which is true), and repeatedly claimed that he preferred to wait until the end of the summer for bargain deals.  Instead of spending the $5-6 million on the higher quality UFA, he'd rather give that same money to two bottom six players, and hoped they max their potential.

 

This year it's to the point where it makes more sense to go after top UFA's on July 1 than not.  IMO, we currently have no terrible contracts (just a few slight overpayments).  We have a need for top line players, we currently have no home run prospects to fill the voids, we have more than enough money to sign the players, and we are a competitive team despite not having a top line.  I mean, why trade a valuable asset when you don't have too? 

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