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LakeLivin

Poll: Would You Trade Justin Faulk?

Would you trade Justin Faulk?  

42 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you trade Justin Faulk for either Matt Duchene or Leon Draisaitl??

    • Strong Yes
      6
    • Yes
      10
    • Not Sure
      6
    • No
      12
    • Strong No
      8


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Let's make it simple: would you trade Faulk for either Duchene or Draisaitl (whichever you feel would be more valuable to the Canes)?  Ignore salary issues or minor tweaks that might be needed to make a deal work.

 

Justin Faulk: 24yo, 6'0", 215lbs, 37th overall pick. Currently the face of the franchise.  Not much needed to be said as we're all intimately familiar with him.

 

Matt Duchene:  25yo, 5'11", 200lbs, 3rd overall pick. 30 goals and 59 points for the Avs this year. TheHockeyNews scouting report:

Assets: 

Is extremely fast and industrious. Plays with fire and passion. Is a capable playmaker with plenty of goal-scoring prowess. Can play wing, where he uses his speed even more to his advantage, or at center.

Flaws: 

Sometimes, he tries to do too much because of his impressive skill set, instead of letting the game come to him more naturally. Also, his intense, all-out style can lead to too many injuries.

Career Potential: 

Excellent, versatile speed demon.

 

Leon Draisaitl: 20yo, 6'1", 210lbs, 3rd overall pick.  19 goals and 51 points in his first full season for the Oil.  Not yet completely proven, but the consensus seems to be he could reach "elite" status.  Reportedly the Oil value him more than RNH and Jordan Eberle, 2 scoring forwards who are well established.

TheHockeyNews scouting report:

Assets: 

A top offensive forward, he excels at playmaking and puck distribution (but he can also finish off plays himself). Is obsessed with getting better in his overall game and plays with passion. Is a great passer.

Flaws: 

At times, his exuberance gets him into trouble on the ice. Therefore, he needs to become more disciplined in order to maximize his vast offensive talent. Also, he needs to work on his consistency.

Career Potential: 

Talented playmaker with good upside.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I definitely prefer Draisaitl over Duchene, but I'd probably say yes for both. The team, or specifically the line, around them would probably need to be constructed differently for each but both could easily become a #1C on a scoring line for us. I'd also say that I'd do the trade for the 1st overall pick this year to select Matthews. He would be like a Draisaitl++ and easily improve the team in the next year.

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Not sure.  IMO Canes need to assess Fleury and McKeown primarily among others that may prove they belong.  If they provide further depth, then I'd trade Faulk.

 

Justin has been disappointing recently as a more offensive focused player.  His defensive breakdowns are severe and seem to originate from overconfidence.  He tries the difficult pass option when easier outlets are often available.  We know he has the defensive game, but I sense it isn't his priority (too much All Star recognition for his offense?).

 

Fleury and McKeown should be excellent skaters similar to the 3 other yutes.  If their game translates to NHL Faulk is expendable.  We didn't expect Pesce and Slavin to translate so quickly (amazingly?).  Would be great to have 2 more pushing for NHL ice time.

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The two guys you listed are guys that I would do it. It is a risky move in that a perennial contender for the cup needs a Norris-conversation type D man and Faulk is the closest we have to that. I also give some credence to the point Coastal made about L/R d men. I see Fleury as an elite defensive prospect still (Hanifin is uber elite, near generational). But he is a lefty as is Hanifin and Slavin.

 

If Fleury is the man of the future, then someone is playing their off side, or we have a guy like Slavin or Fleury as bottom pair.

 

McKeown is right handed, so if he is ready soon, he could be that guy.

 

The big question would be next year. The defense without Faulk would not be very deep. and Slavin-Pesce could arguably be our top pair as Hanifin might be best suited with one year in the mid pairing. We would have to lean on Wiz-Hainsey too.

 

In two years, I think Hanifin is the guy, Fleury is ready, and Slavin and Pesce are fully formed too....

 

But again, we are talking 65 point, #1 one center potential here. The idea of going Draisaitl-Staal-Rask down the middle for the next 10 years? Even if next year is uneven on the back end, that is a pretty tempting.

 

I think Faulk really can become a franchise type dman. But it is far from certain that he will. Kind of like Ward, he had a brutal start defensively, a nice middle, and a rough ending. Still, if his value it high enough to pick up a top 30 young forward? OK, yes.

Edited by remkin

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First, I'd love to have either player on the Canes, and good choices for conversation about a trade Lake. 

 

I voted no, while recognizing the points made by those in favor of a trade.

 

I think the timing is bad, and I don't like the idea of developing defenseman slotted on their off side.  And I don't think lightning will necessarily strike twice with Carrick, Fleury, and McKeown in terms of being ready for NHL duty - see Murphy.

 

My $.02.

 

How did you vote Lake, if you don't mind me asking?

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Yes, but only if we get someone that fits what BP wants - he's often said that the Hurricanes didn't play with enough speed this past season - and, more importantly, who buys into the BP system.

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.....I don't think lightning will necessarily strike twice with Carrick, Fleury, and McKeown in terms of being ready for NHL duty - see Murphy.

 

Need clarification, and respect you're insight about our D.  Do you mean ANY of the 3 (a 4th, etc. lightning strike) or ALL three (a full second strike)?

 

Just thinking about comments during a few broadcasts where John/Tripp described how some player's game just translates, but it isn't evident until they play in the NHL.  Namely, it wasn't expected of Pesce and Slavin (at least so soon), but it just flourished once it did.  Thanks.

Edited by Manwolf

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First, I'd love to have either player on the Canes, and good choices for conversation about a trade Lake. 

 

I voted no, while recognizing the points made by those in favor of a trade.

 

I think the timing is bad, and I don't like the idea of developing defenseman slotted on their off side.  And I don't think lightning will necessarily strike twice with Carrick, Fleury, and McKeown in terms of being ready for NHL duty - see Murphy.

 

My $.02.

 

How did you vote Lake, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I hadn't voted as of your post because I didn't want to start out with the poll reflecting my opinion. But I just voted "strong yes". 

 

As good as Faulk is offensively, I think he gives back maybe 20-25% of that production because of his defense.  And I'm not optimistic about him ever becoming especially strong on that front. Although he's still young, he does have 5 NHL seasons behind him. I look at Slavin in his first year and I trust him more now on defense than Faulk after 5 seasons. 

 

I fully appreciate your point about slotting d-men on their natural sides.  But as I mentioned in another post, Wiz is a right shot and RF thought he was good enough to bring in for $8m over 2 years.  I'm comfortable with Wiz and Pesce as the top 2 on the right side, Hanifin, Slavin, and Hainsey on the left side, and I don't think filling in the 3rd pair right side spot should be all that difficult (of course, I could be wrong). 

 

If this question had come up at the end of December I'd have probably had a tougher time choosing because Faulk was scoring at a Karlsson-esque pace over the first half of the season.  But now I question how repeatable that is given that almost all of it came on the PP, and then he went about a quarter of a season with almost no offensive production before he was injured.  

 

I do notice the difference when Faulk isn't out there blasting his slap shot.  I'm trusting that Wiz (who's also supposed to have a howitzer) would partly make up for a Faulk-less Canes D and that the 3 wonder-yutes will significantly improve their shots over the summer.  But make no mistake, I think we'd miss Faulk's shot from the point.

 

But the big thing is that I see Duchene or Draisaitl as legitimate top 30 overall NHL forwards (Duchene now, and I firmly believe Draisaitl will be).  And I think it's really, really hard to get those kind of guys under any circumstances. I think you have to either have a top-3ish pick, get lucky with later picks, or overpay the rare elite UFA forward (unless you're a choice destination, which we're not).

 

I guess I see this as a potential rare window for both the Canes and the Oil/ Avs, made possible only by a confluence of events.

  • the emergence of the 3 wunder-yutes giving us unheard of depth (for the Canes). I project all 3 as potentially being legitimate "top pair caliber" or at worst, very good 2nd pair (and that's not just by previous Canes standards)
  • a ridiculous imbalance between O and D in Edmonton
  • an imbalance between O and D in Colorado combined with 2 years missing the playoffs which mgmt sees as completely unacceptable, to the point where they've said they'll consider altering the team's core.

As someone mentioned, Faulk's value may never be higher.  And even if it does stay the same (or even go up), that may be a moot point because what are the chances of a top 30ish forward even being available?  If there's a window for a top 30ish forward, I'm guessing it won't stay open for too long. 

 

Lastly, the Canes aren't going to be able to keep all of Faulk, Hanifin, Slavin, Pesce, and Fleury (let alone McKeown if he pans out) long term anyways.  Sure, it would be nice to wait to see exactly how things develop before making any moves.  But there's also lost opportunity cost. If making a big move a couple of years before it's forced on us gets us a Franchise Center, I say go for it.

 

Sorry, I couldn't summarize my views with just $.02.   I think I've got at least a dime in there. :grin:

Edited by LakeLivin

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Need clarification, and respect you're insight about our D.  Do you mean ANY of the 3 (a 4th, etc. lightning strike) or ALL three (a full second strike)?

 

Just thinking about comments during a few broadcasts where John/Tripp described how some player's game just translates, but it isn't evident until they play in the NHL.  Namely, it wasn't expected of Pesce and Slavin (at least so soon), but it just flourished once it did.  Thanks.

 

 

I think expecting any one of those players to mirror the path of Slavin or Pesce to the show is a long shot.

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I think expecting any one of those players to mirror the path of Slavin or Pesce to the show is a long shot.

 

Okay, despite my comment yesterday on the another thread that I'd do a deal like this in a heartbeat, I just voted "not sure." Coastal's post above is what forced me to really look at it closely. (Coastal, I urge you to move along now, lest the length of this post puts you over the edge!)

 

All three members of our "3D surprise" - Slavin, Pesce and Hanifin - have one thing that Fleury, McKeown, and Carrick all lack, despite the general notion that they'll be our next three 'in the system" guys to make a push for the NHL roster. That one thing is Division 1 college hockey.

 

When the brain trust put Hanifin on the NHL roster, it said his development and performance at BC meant he didn't need time in the AHL, despite being just 18. It is hard to overstate the rarity of a player like this. 

 

I've written elsewhere about the clear difference between the Canadian Junior system and Div. 1 hockey when it comes to developing defensive talent. Specifically, the CHL doesn't give a rat's patoot about D. The CHL and its fans want scoring and lots of it. Now, I do think Fleury is pretty special. His numbers suggest he's a student of the game and a D stud, at just 19. And I think D is emphasized more in the WHL, where Fleury plays, than the CHL's two eastern leagues.

 

Nonetheless, I consider Canadian Juniors a full step below NCAA Div. 1 and the AHL when it comes to developing D talent, so I have to agree with Coastal that the odds of Fleury breaking the NHL roster next year are low. Fleury needs - and I think the brain trust will insist he gets - the better part of a year, and very possibly more, in CLT before he shows up in Raleigh.

 

Who could? Well, we are getting Wis back, which we all seem to forget, and that's big. An argument can be made that he's enough, but another can be made that with Liles gone, he fills that void. So, outside of him? Carrick maybe. He's had lot of time in the AHL and didn't look bad in a couple games with the Canes. Robertson, Chelios? Maybe. Both are journeymen minor leaguers at 24 and 25 respectively. If they're going to play in the NHL, the time is now. 

 

We really do need at least one elite scorer. But is moving Faulk now the BEST option for getting that guy, especially when we're also flush with cash?

 

Get an Okposo on the FA market and there's no need to move Faulk.

 

Still, I'm not opposed to it, if it's our BEST option. Based on what our D was able to do without him down the stretch, it is tempting.

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I voted "not sure" and here's why. I think Ron Francis knows that he can't win consistently in Carolina doing things like everybody else. Just like how Billy Beane of "Moneyball" fame knew he couldn't compete with a smaller checkbook in MLB, Francis knows he is going to have to find a different approach. At the season review presser, they were asked about the new advanced stats guy, and they said pretty much "he's doing a good job, and we aren't going to talk about what he does". To me, that said a lot without saying things.

Moving Faulk would hurt and especially on the right side. Being a RHD does increase his value though.

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. . .

  And I don't think lightning will necessarily strike twice with Carrick, Fleury, and McKeown in terms of being ready for NHL duty - see Murphy.

. . .

 

 

I think expecting any one of those players to mirror the path of Slavin or Pesce to the show is a long shot.

 

I'm in complete agreement with you there coastal.  While I'm optimistic about at least 1 (probably 2, and maybe even all) of the 3 being NHL ready not too far down the road, I think it would be foolish to count on any of them being ready next season.  IF we were to deal Faulk, I think that RF would want to pick up another right handed d-man for the 3rd pair for a season or 2.  I'm assuming that getting a serviceable 3rd pair d-man wouldn't be unreasonably difficult or costly, but that is an assumption.        

Edited by LakeLivin

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14 votes in and it couldn't be much more even: 5 voting in the affirmative, 5 the negative, and 4 undecided.  The "yes" people do feel a bit more strongly about it than the "no" people, with 4 of the 5 "yes" votes being of the strong variety as compared to only 1 of the 4 "no" votes.

 

I've got to say, I'm a bit surprised that there's not a single "you're an idiot" post so far. :boxing:  Everyone has expressed their own view without tearing down the opinions of others. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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The arguments, pros and cons, have been eloquently made, and I certainly don't have the wealth of knowledge to pitch in anything different. While acting rashly ALWAYS carries with it an increased risk of error, the way I see this scenario, if any of the pundits out there have any credibility, and there is an avid desire to resurrect the franchise in its present location(ie Raleigh area), there has to be some urgency to produce NOW.

 

Thus top, I guess I'll take your position and say, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

 

Now, as justification of my vote, I'll make a few other statements. 1st and foremost, while I know the consensus is, and I further agree, RF's style is methodical and long range. Fine, well and good, and unquestionably that's the sound way to build A TEAM, but the question I pose, as a small, non-traditional market, can the Carolina Hurricanes continue through too many more lean years, or will the ground swell from our Canadian brethren force a relocation? Sure the team stays together, and continues to improve, but do they stay at PNC. Now please don't think I'm "chicken littling" with that statement, nor a doomsday mentality, But I think we need to get to the big dance like yesterday!!!

 

2nd, I love the analysis Lake makes above, that we might be in a unique confluence of needs involving top notch, YOUNG players on teams that have either a glut of defensemen(us) or forwards(Oilers or Avalanche) which could result in exponential strides for trading partners. Could we attain the offense we obviously need in ways to not sacrifice Justin, probably, but would we attain a player or players with such longevity, doubtful.

 

Finally and most importantly to me, I believe I am seeing Justin's ability plateau. Do the advanced metrics substantiate that, I have no clue. Is he still "young" and have more to give, again I don't know. Will we regret trading him away, yes, but if the 2 players being discussed, most interestingly Draisaitl, are truly available I make the deal.

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What a boneheaded thing to say! You're an idiot!

 

(Had to...)

 

top, I'm a bit disappointed you weren't a bit more original.  Now, if you'd said "that's the dumbest idea ever" . . .  :P

Edited by LakeLivin

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Somewhere out there is a village in desperate need of an idiot because you're here making polls about trading Justin Faulk.  That said, the village on the other side of the hill is also in need of an idiot, because i'm here as well.

 

I trade for Duchene in a heartbeat and i seriously consider Draisaitl as well.  Lots of people have questioned this because of the fact Fleury, McKeown, et al have not proven themselves in the NHL, so therefore you want to hold on to the proven defensemen.  Which is great - if you think Faulk is proven.  Personally i think Faulk has proven himself to have a howitzer on the power play - but i'm yet to see where he's proven he can play defense.  Granted i spent some time away and wasn't regularly watching hockey during a couple of Faulk's seasons, but from what i have seen, 5, 54, and 74 have all proven to be more-adept at actual defense than Faulk.  And with that in mind, he's little more than a second-line defenseman to me, and if you can trade him for a top line forward, it's a no-brainer.

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Just listened to the Francis/Peters presser. Not a lot of hand tipping, but it was interesting how enthusiastically Peters mentioned Fleury's development. "really come on", "great progress". 

 

I still assume he is in Charlotte to start, but he may push more than we think. Even at camp, while he made mistakes he was a fluid skater and he's a big kid. He may be ready sooner than we think. Not to take over for Faulk, clearly, not, but just saying.

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Given Faulk's exceptional contact, his recent All-Star appearances, his upward trending ability, and his overall reputation in this league, I personally feel we could get Draisaitl plus. Given the Oilers stock of young forwards, their need for a "big-time" defenseman, movement into a new barn, and their fan's impatience, I actually think Faulk could get us a big haul from Edmonton. So yes, I would do it for a package centered around Draisaitl. The Duchene celebration for his 30th goal was a bit of a head-scratcher. Losing by 3 goals, getting beaten out of the playoffs, and jumping for joy over that goal was somewhat telling. Certainly a very admirable accomplishment, but just not the time for an over-the-top celebration. So I'm out on Duchene for Faulk.

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Somewhere out there is a village in desperate need of an idiot because you're here making polls about trading Justin Faulk.  That said, the village on the other side of the hill is also in need of an idiot, because i'm here as well.

 

I trade for Duchene in a heartbeat and i seriously consider Draisaitl as well.  Lots of people have questioned this because of the fact Fleury, McKeown, et al have not proven themselves in the NHL, so therefore you want to hold on to the proven defensemen.  Which is great - if you think Faulk is proven.  Personally i think Faulk has proven himself to have a howitzer on the power play - but i'm yet to see where he's proven he can play defense.  Granted i spent some time away and wasn't regularly watching hockey during a couple of Faulk's seasons, but from what i have seen, 5, 54, and 74 have all proven to be more-adept at actual defense than Faulk.  And with that in mind, he's little more than a second-line defenseman to me, and if you can trade him for a top line forward, it's a no-brainer.

Maybe Faulk is our new RW!!! (kidding)

 

I get the argument about his defense and largely agree with it. But the bottom line is that moving him still forces guys who may not be ready to step in. Without Faulk we know have two and a half proven NHL pairings. With him we know we have all three. Holding him for another year doesn't change his value come the TD or next summer, and buys our other D prospects more development time.

 

We have the cash, the coach, the GM and the buzz to make us an attractive option for a high-end FA.

 

Again, I'm not opposed to moving him. I'm just not sure doing so now - because we are free to trade right now with either of the teams proposed - is the BEST option of the three available. That's not to say it doesn't prove to be the best option if we can't get what we need through the draft and FA moves. But those other two routes, by virtue of their timing, should be the first ones we explore, IMO.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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As always, it really comes down to return. Arizona and other teams have searched for years for the illusive 1C. Here, especially w/ Draisaitl, we are looking at a mostly proven, very young 1C that could set this team up down the middle for years. If we didn't have Hanifin, it would all be different.

 

Sure, we can try to make a splash in UFA, but aside from the much mentioned challenge of drawing a big name to a little market, and even just the mere math of 30 teams, few truly elite forwards available, we still almost certainly do not solve the 1C problem through UFA. But if we want to win next year, and assuming we don't hit the 1/50 chance we win the lottery, we're not solving that issue for the next 1-2 years in the draft either, especially picking at #13. 

 

Yes, there is risk that the Pesce/Slavin/Hanifn trio takes a step back, which might make missing Faulk a more acute issue, or that we get decimated with injuries on the back end, and yes, next year could be a stretch back there, in terms of real cup contention, but the idea of being set down the center, and then having Hanifin/Slavin/Pesce/Fleury coming on in the back end? Just have to figure out goal and we are there. Gotta do it.

 

One other point. Draisaitl has one partial and one full NHL year. He would be expected to "break out" next year or the following year. OK one other thing. I don't think the Oliers want to let Draistail go. But.....

 

One other deal proposed on here was Faulk for RNH AND Oiler's first rounder. I would also do that one, NOT lottery protected. Heck the Oliers shouldn't want to win the lottery. We end up with either Auston Matthews or one of the big time wingers, and still have the #13 and say #22 and two second and third rounders, and RNH....wow.

Edited by remkin

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