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Pre Season and Training Camp 2016

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I guess the hope i still had was that Murphy's supposedly high end offensive skills could start to show up, at least on the PP, and he could at least function in the #6 slot and get offered up in the expansion draft. He had looked better before the concussion last year, and there had been notions that he could train harder, so maybe this offseason he could have done that and at least provide some of the offense we need.

 

I had not seen him play at all this year though, so I hadn't really heard anything until this. If he has a bad camp and pre-season? Yeah, it's basically over. But that's a #11 pick, so if it's over it's a big, sad, whiff. I guess even a marginal #6 dman from a #11 overall pick could be considered a miss too, and it's getting hard to think his upside is much better than that.

Edited by remkin

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9 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

It was really hard to tell who looked good.  The Wild iced their NHL roster. 

I could only get the radio feed, but I'll tell you who sounded amazing: Slavin. I mean, yeah, we knew that in one sense, but in the first half of the game, it sounded like if not for him and Leighton, there was no way the game stayed that close.

 

Part of me wants to see our "A" group out there too, but there's another part that says don't overdo it. We've got that long road trip to start; let's not expose our top guys to kids trying prove something any more than is necessary. I want to see how things roll as much as anybody, but I'm also glad we're saving our best for when the games start to matter.

 

Preseason is the brain trust's only chance to see where the yutes are in terms of their ability to play the system at the NHL level - without their lapses hurting us in the standings - so we can send them to CLT with specific things to work on. I think there's also something to be said for taking this big group on the road together, so the yutes get a taste of the culture BP is instilling and the NHL lifestyle. Feeling "part of" - and not riding buses - can be big motivators.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Preseason is the brain trust's only chance to see where the yutes are in terms of their ability to play the system at the NHL level - without their lapses hurting us in the standings - so we can send them to CLT with specific things to work on. I think there's also something to be said for taking this big group on the road together, so the yutes get a taste of the culture BP is instilling and the NHL lifestyle. Feeling "part of" - and not riding buses - can be big motivators.

 

 

This.  The Hurricanes ice a mostly-AHL roster against the Wild's mostly-NHL roster in preseason, lose by a couple goals, and once again some think the sky's falling.  There were posts on Facebook about the 'karma' of ES scoring the game-winning goal... again, against a team mostly made up of yutes, and, again, in the preseason.  Whoopie-crap.  This is the time for Peters to see where the yutes are right now in a vaguely-NHL game situation, he's seen it, and now cuts will be made and he can get on to the process of getting the NHL-ers ready for the season.

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Good call, coastal. Heaven forbid the whole fourth line went down, but if it did, that trio could step in and we'd be okay. When's the last time we could say that?

 

Much as I hate to say it (because his creativity in the O-zone is a joy to watch), I think making this team has become very tough for The Chin. Too Gerbs-like at the end of the day. 

 

I also want to add - and this based purely on Chuck's call yesterday - it sounds like Nesty hasn't missed a beat. I may see him as a grinder, but he's clearly more than that, and good on him. It's actually Nordstrom who I'm now wondering about, on that line. If the chemistry is there, I'm not sure how you opt for him over PDG.

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Ok, not likely to happen, but I'm wondering if a big change is in the works for the lines from last year. We know Peters likes to fool around with line combinations, and we know some of the young kids are pushing hard to be included vs heading down to Charlotte. So I wonder if something like this could be effective for us:

 

Skinns - Staal - Stemp

Aho - Lindy - Tsquared

PDG - Rask - Zykov

Bickell - Nordy - Nesty

Stalberg

 

McClement - buyout/waived

 

I think McClement is really holding the fourth line back. He has no speed and no hands. He is good on the PK, but that is not enough to make the team in my opinion. Still wish we had resigned Nash.

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Good stuff Coastal and Top. I completely agree that rolling the yutes and bottom lines out there on the road trip was fine. My thought is this: there are three preseason games left. Admittedly one is a back to back, but I want our actual team to get a chance to gel before we start 0-4 or something like that. There are 3 games in 4 nights, but then there are 5 days off.  We need TT and Aho to have as much time as possible to get the PP and the system down, and that Linds and Finns line, especially to gel. We also need to get Nordstrom-J-Nesty back.

 

OK now Min weighed in while I was typing. Love the out of the box thinking, but don't see it, at least not to start. That said, I do agree about McClement. As most of you know, I really lamented letting Nash go over McClemement. I was hoping we could package McClement into a deal. We want a 4th line that can score, and he will need a big bounce back to help with that. Maybe there was some injury or other reason he fell off, but I also wonder if Ryan, or someone might still take that spot. While McClement would be a cheap buy out, you only get so many buyouts, so I would hope maybe a trade, even for a draft pick could be done.

 

The thing is, I am very bullish on keeping that Nesty-J-Nord line in tact. Nestrasil is noticeable on the boards and is a better player than his numbers. And Nordstrom takes that better than his numbers thing a step further. He is that all around guy who is smart and seems to almost always make the right play. The fact that those guys were, as a group, the only net positive players (that played more than 8 games) on the entire team, despite playing vs. the top lines in the league night in and night out, is all you need to know really. But there was a three month period where J was on fire, and two months he was actually at a ppg, for 2 complete back to back months. That was playing with Nord and Nest.

 

Further, the fact that they can function at such a high level, allows us to pool our other 6-7 quality forwards onto the other two lines.

 

The one guy I think could slide onto literally any line is PDG. He's fast and plays hard all the time. He has skill. He was even on plus minus, making him next best after J, Nest, and Nord, and thus could fit in on that shut down line.

 

This is why I don't see Zykov, or any other yute breaking in. PDG is too valuable, and the other spots are locked down IMHO. We shall see, but I really don't think there's an opening.

 

The opening might be the #6 D man. Reading Coastal and Top's take on Murphy, (and Legend), that spot might be open. During the offseason, Francis told me that Murphy was on the edge and this year could go either way. Basically find his NHL game, or end up the next Boychuk. Sounds like he's not making the NHL case. I would only hold out some because he is in a very advantageous position in terms of the team: 1. We badly need goals and at least at the AHL level he's made points. And 2. we need a guy to offer up in the expansion draft.

 

Edited by remkin

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Preseason back-to-back has hammy written all over it, IMO. Let the kids have one last taste and send two planes out of Milwaukee in opposite directions. Then two games with the opening-night lineup, before hunkering down for a week of preparing for the opener.

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4 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Preseason back-to-back has hammy written all over it, IMO. Let the kids have one last taste and send two planes out of Milwaukee in opposite directions. Then two games with the opening-night lineup, before hunkering down for a week of preparing for the opener.

 

I guess that makes sense. I'd like Aho-Lindy-TT to get all three games, but then again, Aho has played a lot of hockey. Just think Aho and TT need to pick up the system and knock down the turnovers before games count, and Lindy still has some rust too.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Francis told me that Murphy was on the edge and this year could go either way.

He's been pretty upfront about that in the media too, saying, "He really needs to take the next step."

 

I wish BP would have stayed with developing him for RW. (Not on-the-job at the NHL level, mind you.)

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10 minutes ago, remkin said:

 

I guess that makes sense. I'd like Aho-Lindy-TT to get all three games, but then again, Aho has played a lot of hockey. Just think Aho and TT need to pick up the system and knock down the turnovers before games count, and Lindy still has some rust too.

My first draft of that comment actually had Linds and Finns going Tuesday. I think that's fine, but I'd sit 'em the next night. Just can't see tempting fate when the games don't count.

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Part of me thinks we need to acquire someone for the 6th d man.  Murphy is just terrible.  Like to the point where he will cost this team games.  This guy has had way more chances than Boychuck and has failed.

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

He's been pretty upfront about that in the media too, saying, "He really needs to take the next step."

 

I wish BP would have stayed with developing him for RW. (Not on-the-job at the NHL level, mind you.)

 

 

Silly question perhaps, but question nonetheless - if Murphy were to have ended up playing more as a RW (i called for that myself but i don't see it now - we already don't have enough spots for all of the yutes we'd love to fit in so i don't see yet another spot being filled by a defenseman), does he reach a point where he's no longer an 'expansion fodder defenseman', but an 'expansion fodder forward'?  I mean say he plays 40 games this season as a RW - does he, in the eyes of the league, become a forward instead of a defenseman?

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4 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Part of me thinks we need to acquire someone for the 6th d man.  Murphy is just terrible.  Like to the point where he will cost this team games.  This guy has had way more chances than Boychuck and has failed.

 

 

Way more chances than Boychuk despite playing 3 fewer NHL games (but with more points) and about 250 fewer AHL games?

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We have too much depth now for a Murphy on the wing experiment. I am less convinced he'd be that good there personally. Let him try it in the AHL. I'd bet big bucks he'd slot below just about every forward prospect we have.

 

His shtick his niche, has always been the promise of offense from the blueline, which is still hard to come by and much needed on most NHL teams. If he can't even make it as a #6 dman? Not going to make it at all.

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Don't forget Saarela.  My impression (and I don't even know where I got it) was that he might be a better prospect than Zykov.  Don't know if that's true, and even if so, don't know the timeline we're looking at (he turns 20 in Jan.)  And I don't know the extent of his injury, or when he's due to start playing again. But I'm wondering if there's any chance he ends up at least getting a glimpse of Raleigh sometime this year? 

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23 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 I mean say he plays 40 games this season as a RW - does he, in the eyes of the league, become a forward instead of a defenseman?

As far as I can tell, yes. But like you say, it ain't gonna happen, nor should it.

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11 minutes ago, remkin said:

We have too much depth now for a Murphy on the wing experiment. I am less convinced he'd be that good there personally. Let him try it in the AHL. I'd bet big bucks he'd slot below just about every forward prospect we have.

 

His shtick his niche, has always been the promise of offense from the blueline, which is still hard to come by and much needed on most NHL teams. If he can't even make it as a #6 dman? Not going to make it at all.

Bean, Hainsey and Murphy (why not?) for Trouba. :P

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6 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Bean, Hainsey and Murphy (why not?) for Trouba. :P

 

Well one reason to not throw Bean in there would be that according to the WHL coaches poll for the upcoming season, a lot feel Bean is going to be better than Provorov. I'd be pleasantly surprised, but they see him play more than I have seen him play.

 

WHL Pre-season Coaches Polls

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30 minutes ago, MinJaBen said:

 

Well one reason to not throw Bean in there would be that according to the WHL coaches poll for the upcoming season, a lot feel Bean is going to be better than Provorov. I'd be pleasantly surprised, but they see him play more than I have seen him play.

 

WHL Pre-season Coaches Polls

Very cool find Min! Wow. Some had Provorov very high in that draft, I'd even seen him ahead of Hanifin, and he is still very highly regarded. If Bean, a draft year younger is widely seen as the best D man in the WHL? Wow. Looks like he even got one vote as the best player overall, all positions. 

 

This was clearly an against need and type pick for us, in dire need of a forward. That really spoke highly of what our guys thought of Bean. Last time they pulled a similar against type pick they took one Sebastian Aho. 

Edited by remkin

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