Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
raleighcaniac

Relocation Speculation

Recommended Posts

Having lived in PQ I only know enough French to offend good looking French women, order off a menu and get directions around the city.  But, the gist of this (condensed) en Francais article that just came out this week is that our pal Pete is listening/entertaining sale discussions. Not sure how the shaky Cdn dollar plays into this but its a deep pocket cable company that would buy them. Newer stadium in Quebec City, sell outs every home game.  Like I've said previously, PK has no loyalty to Raleigh; never lived here. Show me the money is his battle cry.  Julian Gauthier has to be thrilled...

 

Capturepk.JPG

Edited by raleighcaniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

Having lived in PQ I only know enough French to offend good looking French women, order off a menu and get directions around the city.  But, the gist of this (condensed) en Francais article that just came out this week is that our pal Pete is listening/entertaining sale discussions. Not sure how the shaky Cdn dollar plays into this but its a deep pocket cable company that would buy them. Newer stadium in Quebec City, sell outs every home game.  Like I've said previously, PK has no loyalty to Raleigh; never lived here. Show me the money is his battle cry.  Julian Gauthier has to be thrilled...

 

Capturepk.JPG

 

Same wishful thinking Quebecois BS that's been going on since they didn't get an expansion team. Yeah, Karmanos is wanting to sell - he's been saying that for years. The reason the Whalers left Hartford is because he didn't get the arena he wanted up there. Here, he's got one of the best arena deals in the league. It would take a lot for him to move the Hurricanes again.

 

Not that I'm saying it is impossible that they move. If they were going to, why would the team even bother to get better? If the team was so lousy that nobody would attend games, it would be much better justification for PK to move them, right? Now, if we get that "blockbuster trade" and it's Skinner, Faulk and Aho for Jamie McBain, maybe the QC folks might have a faint hope....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, JonKerfoot said:

Not that I'm saying it is impossible that they move. If they were going to, why would the team even bother to get better? If the team was so lousy that nobody would attend games, it would be much better justification for PK to move them, right? Now, if we get that "blockbuster trade" and it's Skinner, Faulk and Aho for Jamie McBain, maybe the QC folks might have a faint hope....

 

The problem JK is that the Canes are a lousy team right now at the bottom of the standings and as a result nobody does attend their games with the exception of the 8k faithful who can buy $50 seats in the lower bowl any game. The arena deal PK  has slows his financial bleeding but with 8k fans showing up, many with heavily discounted tickets, he is still in triage mode even with revenue sharing. This is when teams do move. I think you're suggesting PK moves them and retains ownership? I think he just sells them. He's old, he won his cup, he's in the HOF, why bleed any longer? He's probably done so he will sell to highest bidder who then moves the team. The tap root that was the Stanley Cup hasn't been watered in so long it no longer has much local meaning. Why would the team even bother to get better? Because that is a fiduciary responsibility of the management team led by Francis who is trying to build a competitive team with a bottom feeding budget. The reality is that with the exception of maybe 6,000 legit hard core hockey fans and the small biz vendors the team will not be missed when they move.

Edited by raleighcaniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

Having lived in PQ I only know enough French to offend good looking French women, order off a menu and get directions around the city.  But, the gist of this (condensed) en Francais article that just came out this week is that our pal Pete is listening/entertaining sale discussions. Not sure how the shaky Cdn dollar plays into this but its a deep pocket cable company that would buy them. Newer stadium in Quebec City, sell outs every home game.  Like I've said previously, PK has no loyalty to Raleigh; never lived here. Show me the money is his battle cry.  Julian Gauthier has to be thrilled...

 

Capturepk.JPG

Recycled BS without a single named source.

 

I'm beginning to think raleighcaniac is a BD58 sockpuppet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

 

The problem JK is that the Canes are a lousy team right now at the bottom of the standings and as a result nobody does attend their games with the exception of the 8k faithful who can buy $50 seats in the lower bowl any game. The arena deal PK  has slows his financial bleeding but with 8k fans showing up, many with heavily discounted tickets, he is still in triage mode even with revenue sharing. This is when teams do move. I think you're suggesting PK moves them and retains ownership? I think he just sells them. He's old, he won his cup, he's in the HOF, why bleed any longer? He's probably done so he will sell to highest bidder who then moves the team. The tap root that was the Stanley Cup hasn't been watered in so long it no longer has much local meaning. Why would the team even bother to get better? Because that is a fiduciary responsibility of the management team led by Francis who is trying to build a competitive team with a bottom feeding budget. The reality is that with the exception of maybe 6,000 legit hard core hockey fans and the small biz vendors the team will not be missed when they move.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that an owner can't move a team without the leagues approval.  And from a big picture perspective regarding growth of the sport, the league has said it wants hockey to stay in underdeveloped markets.  Look  at attendance figures for Florida and Arizona over the years. Not saying circumstances are the same, but it's not like PK (or a buyer) can just move the team, even if they so desired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

One thing to keep in mind is that an owner can't move a team without the leagues approval.  And from a big picture perspective regarding growth of the sport, the league has said it wants hockey to stay in underdeveloped markets.  Look  at attendance figures for Florida and Arizona over the years. Not saying circumstances are the same, but it's not like PK (or a buyer) can just move the team, even if they so desired.

I think you make good points about the challenge of relocation but given that Quebec is a hockey ready market with new rink I think the only reason PK would hold off selling is if Quebec (or Seattle) was awarded a new franchise; the new franchise fee money he would get on top of what he just got from the Vegas entry. Don't know anything about AZ or FL ownership so can't speak to their motivation to stay or leave. I just believe that given PK's age and what he has already accomplished he's done and will sell as soon as an acceptable offer is tendered and accepted by him and the league. Time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, raleighcaniac said:

I think you make good points about the challenge of relocation but given that Quebec is a hockey ready market with new rink I think the only reason PK would hold off selling is if Quebec (or Seattle) was awarded a new franchise; the new franchise fee money he would get on top of what he just got from the Vegas entry. Don't know anything about AZ or FL ownership so can't speak to their motivation to stay or leave. I just believe that given PK's age and what he has already accomplished he's done and will sell as soon as an acceptable offer is tendered and accepted by him and the league. Time will tell.

 

But you missed my main point, which is that no matter who owns the team they can't relocate it without approval of the league, and the league has said that it wants the team in Raleigh. I'm not going to bet my life on Bettman not reversing his stance, but look at it from the other owners perspective: where do you see bigger potential long term growth for the league, out of Quebec or out of the US south? And imo the league has already show a pretty strong commitment to the big picture (expanding the market) given what went down in Arizona. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

 

The problem JK is that the Canes are a lousy team right now at the bottom of the standings and as a result nobody does attend their games with the exception of the 8k faithful who can buy $50 seats in the lower bowl any game. The arena deal PK  has slows his financial bleeding but with 8k fans showing up, many with heavily discounted tickets, he is still in triage mode even with revenue sharing. This is when teams do move. I think you're suggesting PK moves them and retains ownership? I think he just sells them. He's old, he won his cup, he's in the HOF, why bleed any longer? He's probably done so he will sell to highest bidder who then moves the team. The tap root that was the Stanley Cup hasn't been watered in so long it no longer has much local meaning. Why would the team even bother to get better? Because that is a fiduciary responsibility of the management team led by Francis who is trying to build a competitive team with a bottom feeding budget. The reality is that with the exception of maybe 6,000 legit hard core hockey fans and the small biz vendors the team will not be missed when they move.

 

Right, and the NY Islanders are worse than the Hurricanes so far this season, and they have been last in the league in attendance for so many years in the past ten that I don't see why they haven't been up and sold to Quebec City long ago.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason Carolina will not move to QC is because of Winnipeg.  The NHL learned its lesson from the Jets.  Everything aligned right with the Thrashers being bad, attendance dwindling, and the city of Winnipeg building a new arena.  Since then, the only people that have benefited from the move is the citizens of Winnipeg.  Relocating a southern team back to Canada did nothing to benefit the league.  That's why the NHL fought so hard to keep a team in AZ, and why there's been no pressure on moving Carolina or Florida.  We've proven in the past that we will fill out an arena, it just takes time and winning.  The only scenario I see Carolina moving is Seattle.  Without Carolina, the only presence the NHL has in the SE region of the country is in Florida.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also have to say it's a strong positive that there are 18 minority owners within Hurricanes Holdings, LLC, right? Even though PK obviously has majority ownership and pulls the most weight, we still have the leverage of 18 minority investors who (I hope) will always want to keep the Canes in Raleigh.

 

That was one of the largest differentiators between the Canes and Thrashers' situations - Atlanta was owned solely by a dysfunctional ownership group, and when they wanted to sell, the league kind of had their hands tied with just one perspective being vocalized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JonKerfoot said:

 

How can you put any stock into it? No real sources - just a "report from 98.5 radio"....

 

 

What frustrates me though is that a credible source in NBCSN is quoting it as if there's anything to this garbage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

 Without Carolina, the only presence the NHL has in the SE region of the country is in Florida.

...and we all know Florida is not the South, just transplanted NewYawkers.

 

This said by a Jersey boy.  36 years removed.

 

Edited by WilmingtonCaniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, was at game also and full STH as well, so I too am bemoaning the lack of a crowd, but full expect things to turn around WHEN WE START WINNING. 1st period tonight and 1/2 2nd was brutal, then things got interesting. Don't know how many posts Montreal hit, but at least 3. Then the 2 blasted goal reviews. But we won, and that's all that matters, except that we've officially gotten on a streak. I know we've had 3 backup goalies, but in years past, we've found ways to make them look brilliant, so this too looks like progress.

 

On this report of Karmanos and the relocation phobia, it was mentioned on the Aftermath on the way home, than it's a rumor that has an uncanny way of surfacing whenever Montreal seems to make their way to our city. Coincidence? Jealousy? Or plain Francophilia?

Edited by KJUNKANE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI, the rumor was debunked by Karmanos himself a few hours after the initial report.

 

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/11/18/hurricanes-president-says-relocation-rumors-are-false/

 

As posted above,  its the same story that comes up every time Montreal comes to town.  Glad we sent them back with an "L".   As a Duke football fan I can say with lots of experience, if you win the people will show up. We have been to the playoffs once in a decade in a league when getting to the playoffs is almost like a participation trophy.  If we keep this level of play up, I think the attendance is going to steadily rise as the year goes on.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thrashcane, you should know, but I view Don Waddell as the grim reaper of hockey franchises. I read the interview he gave at the first intermission last night, and I was not altogether reassured. Even though PK is 74 and has stated he needs a succession plan in place for the Hurricanes, Waddell said they discharged the investment banker PK had been using to try to sell the team 5 months ago. He also stated something like that PK was not actively seeking buyers but would have to consider any good offer that he received. Waddell did not limit those "good" offers to offers that would keep the Canes in Raleigh. 

 

I know the NHL does not need another team in Quebec, but I find it hard to believe that Quebec City funded the construction of a state of the art, NHL caliber arena without some assurance they would have a primary tenant in the near future. I'm not ready to panic, but I could see it being hard for PK to turn down an offer of $500 million US (same as the expansion fee) less whatever it would cost the buyer to buy out the remainder of the Canes lease at PNC. I'm guessing that would net PK north of $450 million. Let's face it, if there was a deal in principal to sell along those lines neither PK nor any Canes executive is going to admit it now and have the team play out the season in Raleigh as a lame duck. I hope my fears are unfounded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Thrashcane, you should know, but I view Don Waddell as the grim reaper of hockey franchises. I read the interview he gave at the first intermission last night, and I was not altogether reassured. Even though PK is 74 and has stated he needs a succession plan in place for the Hurricanes, Waddell said they discharged the investment banker PK had been using to try to sell the team 5 months ago. He also stated something like that PK was not actively seeking buyers but would have to consider any good offer that he received. Waddell did not limit those "good" offers to offers that would keep the Canes in Raleigh. 

 

I know the NHL does not need another team in Quebec, but I find it hard to believe that Quebec City funded the construction of a state of the art, NHL caliber arena without some assurance they would have a primary tenant in the near future. I'm not ready to panic, but I could see it being hard for PK to turn down an offer of $500 million US (same as the expansion fee) less whatever it would cost the buyer to buy out the remainder of the Canes lease at PNC. I'm guessing that would net PK north of $450 million. Let's face it, if there was a deal in principal to sell along those lines neither PK nor any Canes executive is going to admit it now and have the team play out the season in Raleigh as a lame duck. I hope my fears are unfounded.

They're not.  The writing was on the wall as soon as Waddell was hired.  Sad thing is PK is too stupid to realize that it takes money to make money.  Being the bottom spender in the league and expecting winnING team and/or fans to show up in masses after missing the playoffs for 7 straight years is just plain stupid and stupid can't be fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

They're not.  The writing was on the wall as soon as Waddell was hired.  Sad thing is PK is too stupid to realize that it takes money to make money.  Being the bottom spender in the league and expecting winnING team and/or fans to show up in masses after missing the playoffs for 7 straight years is just plain stupid and stupid can't be fixed.

Blah blah blah...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

I know the NHL does not need another team in Quebec, but I find it hard to believe that Quebec City funded the construction of a state of the art, NHL caliber arena without some assurance they would have a primary tenant in the near future.

blah...

 

Cities do stupid things all the time, and it's arguable, given its location and Francophone population, that building that arena was stupid, hockey or not. QC (not Montreal) is the center of the Francophone universe. As the smarmy attitude (toward Americans) of the QCers who keep trolling this and other sites proves, they might as well be from Paris :lol:

 

Negating the unique ownership realities, the status of Raleigh as a Stanley Cup city, the awful Canadian dollar, the league's countless statements of comittment to Raleigh and even (usually clueless) Stephen Harper's own comments that until the CAD recovers relocation of any team is likely a non-starter is just fear-mongering and a needless distraction from hockey on these boards--as far as I'm concerned.

 

If y'all want to keep beating this drum, I suggest the mods start - and enforce - a new thread just for doing so, so the rest of us can roundly ignore it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2016 at 2:52 PM, raleighcaniac said:

TS, I don't know what your problem is but i'll bet its hard to pronounce.  Your days not over.  Get back to your cubicle and sell some more insurance policies.

Not even close, RC. But thanks for playin'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TS, if Waddell had not facilitated the sale and move of the Thrashers, I might be less concerned. Of all the hockey people PK could have brought in as President, why did he not find someone who had success in building attendance instead of someone who helped relocate a team? And spending right at the salary floor could be seen as an owner trying to keep as much money as he can since he knows he has no long term interest in the team. Lastly, when nothing has changed about PK's age and lack of a partner or child ready to step in as primary owner, why has he fired the investment bankers that were looking for a buyer for him? Maybe the answers to all these questions add up to nothing, and maybe QC spent 100's of millions of dollars to be ready whenever the NHL might decide to let a team go there sometime in the next 20 years. I hope that is the case, but all of this and especially Waddell's presence is worrisome.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...