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Trade rumors and talk

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We need a top line forward no doubt, but noah a first rounder and a top prospect no way!! our system is in the best shape its probably every been and we are extremely young and in position to be really good for a long time. Don't ruin that just trying to make the playoffs this year we aren't in shape to win anything this year. In 06 we had the goods and added weight and the recking ball to finalize the cup run. We sacrificed the future in the process but it was worth it for the cup. We should not do that this year to win once series at best! 

On another note where can i find the rules of the expansion draft? That will be a huge part of the decision making process as well!

 

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The more I think about it, the more I think that our best move is to acquire another legitimate 1st line forward if at all possible, even at the cost of slightly losing a hockey trade (we shouldn't significantly overpay).  RF has done a good job scraping together decent talent at very low cost, but who have we got going forward that we're comfortable is going to be at the "top line" level we'd like in order to be perennial cup contenders?  For me, it's probably just Skinner and Aho.  Sure, we've got others who might get there. But, e.g., I'd much rather project Rask as my #3 center going forward than depending on him as a true franchise #1.  One of either Gauthier or Roy might make eventually be legit top line talent, but I don't want to tread water for years on the hopes that one of them reaches his ceiling at the NHL level.  And the domino effect: I'd love to see a 4th line comprised of players like McGinn.  I'm comfortable with our quality and depth on the back end going forward, I think it's time to even out our offense and defense.   

 

I'm with danimal (or at least where I think he's coming from).  RF has done a great job in accumulating unrealized assets.  The next step is optimizing use of them.  I've said before that most fans tend to value "their own" at max potential instead of more realistic projections.  But rationally we know that many won't achieve hoped for expectations .  Which means a decrease in value over time.  At some point, acquiring assets that you're unwilling to cash in on becomes hoarding (not that I think we're anywhere close to that, but you get the drift). While there are exceptions, the adage "one in the hand is worth two in the bush" has some legitimacy, imo.

 

Note that I wouldn't pay Sakic's current reported asking price for Duchene.  But I don't think anyone else will, either, and I hope that RF is still talking to Sakic when his price becomes more reasonable.

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1 hour ago, redzonenorth said:

On another note where can i find the rules of the expansion draft? That will be a huge part of the decision making process as well!

 

 

Rules for 2017 expansion draft @  nhl.com

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so first and second year players are safe! we will be able to protect everyone of our top guys then! we basically won't lose anything valuable because aho brett slavin and noah are automatically protected. thats awesome and gives us the ability to have plenty of options at the deadline

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44 minutes ago, redzonenorth said:

so first and second year players are safe! we will be able to protect everyone of our top guys then! we basically won't lose anything valuable because aho brett slavin and noah are automatically protected. thats awesome and gives us the ability to have plenty of options at the deadline

We still have one detail to work out, we need to qualify one d-man in order to not expose Faulk.  RF has several options, I don't see it as being much of a problem.

Edited by LakeLivin

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http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/10-under-the-radar-trade-targets-for-the-2017-deadline

 

Two Canes make the above list, Hainsey and McClement.  Assuming we're not contenders at the deadline, of course. And if we keep playing like our last 3 games (minus about 2 minutes), I like our chances of being contenders at the deadline. 

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i don't think were going to be sellers its so important for us to make the playoffs even if we just squeak in for financial reasons a few home games would be huge and also get the fans back involved and excited about next year. hopefully this will be the years we make some big moves to acquire that one monster forward we so desperately need!

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I'm going to just throw this out as a reason to make the move for Duchene.

 

Victor Rask is struggling. Rask is a great story overall, and when he's playing at peak he's capable of being a first line center. He's still having a nice year overall, and I still like him a lot, but right now he's not a first line center. I don't know if he's banged up, or what, but taking the pressure off of V. Rask might actually make him better too. Duchene pushes Rask down to 3C or 2Cb if you prefer to rank the other lines equally. Just like Jordan just isn't quite skilled enough to be a IC, Rask is just not quite ready to be that. Duchene would not only add the points up front and the possible chemistry with key forwards, but push both Rask and Staal down.

 

Rask would instantly be among the best third line centers in the game as J would be among the best second line centers in the game. As importantly we could ice one of the better third lines in the game too.

 

Of course I still bite down hard on what we'd have to give up, but it could end up being a really key move if Francis can somehow swing it.

 

Edited by remkin

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our staal aho lindholm line is very nice but not your typical talent for a top line. i agree with that but they are our best line and they get the job done. i also agree that it would be nice to but the lines down by adding matt! but not at the price they are currently talking. its just not worth it

how is matt in the face-off department? we are pretty strong there now 

Edited by redzonenorth

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1 hour ago, redzonenorth said:

our steal aho lindholm line is very nice but not your typical talent for a top line. i agree with that but they are our best line and they get the job done. i also agree that it would be nice to but the lines down by adding matt! but not at the price they are currently talking. its just not worth it

how is matt in the face-off department? we are pretty strong there now 

Number two in the league. He'd almost certainly up our percentage.

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Kings seem to be ceasing the day on MD.  They have been shedding salary in order to make room for someone(s) then Ek comes out with a rumor about MD and the kings.

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6 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Kings seem to be ceasing the day on MD.  They have been shedding salary in order to make room for someone(s) then Ek comes out with a rumor about MD and the kings.

Works for me. We need Landeskog, not Duchene. We're T6 in the league in F/O percentage, and just got rid of an overpaid "franchise center" who plays no D. Why bring on another one?

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6 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Kings seem to be ceasing the day on MD.  They have been shedding salary in order to make room for someone(s) then Ek comes out with a rumor about MD and the kings.

 

They may be shedding salary and want MD, but do they have the pieces that Sakic has said he wants? Doesn't seem like a good fit to me.

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I know they want to build around MacKinnon and he's younger, but Duchene has similar, if not actually better numbers this year than MacKinnon on a ppg and goals/game basis, and about the same overall.

 

I don't follow the Avs at all, so I don't know this, but I'm thinking that Duchene has faced mostly top pair D men over his career, while putting up his top line numbers too.

Edited by remkin

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From the Avs board I get that Rantanen is as untouchable as Mackinnon.  And that while it's possible that both Duchene and Landeskog get moved, it's not definite that they both would.  Could be one or the other depending on the deal(s), but Duchene is seem as the more likely as he's seem as having more value to another team while Landeskog is younger which is important given how far away the Avs are from contending. 

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You know, lusting after this Avs trade like one does with a new car, as we sit on the precipice of playoffs, suggests to me, more and more as these critical games unfold, that Ron Francis is not going to deviate from his plans for this team. Further, if one steps back and analyzes these 2 players, Landeskog or Duchene, with respect to this team, this year,  could you really say that either, with the "trade off" we'd have to make, that acquiring either could improve playoff chances for 16-17?

 

Further, for this year, in my opinion, the real chink in our armor is #30, and his likelihood of some type of injury, as, if he goes down, with the uncertainty of Eddie, I fear the season would come to a screeching halt. The other part of my thoughts is that even if Landy or Duchene could elevate scoring, and I really doubt either could do so significantly, you still have the uncertainty of Cam's health even though he appears to have weathered the huge workload thrown at him at this point?

 

No, I've come to believe that if RF wants to improve chances for this year's playoffs, he needs to stay away from the bidding war which will surely attend the Avs 2 guys, and look to relief through a "dependable" back stop goalie, and possibly an alternative 2nd/3rd line scorer, someone who could bring "net front" presence?

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I think there is a whole lot more of an opportunity for RF to make an advantageous trade prior to the expansion draft.  If he spends his money (assets) now by overpaying the Avs, he will be broke when stuff hits the clearance rack.  There are going to be teams with players that they are going to have to make decisions on whether to use a protection slot or lose for nothing.  The Canes are in a unique situation to capitalize on some of the other teams' pain. 

 

RF is playing the long game

Edited by super_dave_1
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2 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

I think there is a whole lot more of an opportunity for RF to make an advantageous trade prior to the expansion draft.  If he spends his money (assets) now by overpaying the Avs, he will be broke when stuff hits the clearance rack.  There are going to be teams with players that they are going to have to make decisions on whether to use a protection slot or lose for nothing.  The Canes are in a unique situation to capitalize on some of the other teams' pain. 

 

I agree completely here. And I think based on our team and the expansion draft rules, we will be shopping for goalies and defenders, not forwards. We have protection spots open for the goalies and defenders that we can use which removes some of the risks/costs for acquiring players before the expansion draft. With forwards, we don't have that. If we were to acquire Duchene, for example, then one of the guys we are planning to protect now, becomes vulnerable. Better to trade for forwards after the expansion draft. 

 

I'd try to grab a defender that can't be protected by their current team and then flip them after the expansion draft, or keep them and flip one of our defensive prospects for a forward. Doing so before the draft reduces our value gained.

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4 hours ago, super_dave_1 said:

I think there is a whole lot more of an opportunity for RF to make an advantageous trade prior to the expansion draft.  If he spends his money (assets) now by overpaying the Avs, he will be broke when stuff hits the clearance rack.  There are going to be teams with players that they are going to have to make decisions on whether to use a protection slot or lose for nothing.  The Canes are in a unique situation to capitalize on some of the other teams' pain. 

 

RF is playing the long game

 

4 hours ago, MinJaBen said:

 

I agree completely here. And I think based on our team and the expansion draft rules, we will be shopping for goalies and defenders, not forwards. We have protection spots open for the goalies and defenders that we can use which removes some of the risks/costs for acquiring players before the expansion draft. With forwards, we don't have that. If we were to acquire Duchene, for example, then one of the guys we are planning to protect now, becomes vulnerable. Better to trade for forwards after the expansion draft. 

 

I'd try to grab a defender that can't be protected by their current team and then flip them after the expansion draft, or keep them and flip one of our defensive prospects for a forward. Doing so before the draft reduces our value gained.

 

I hear what you guys are saying and don't disagree with the principle.  But my question is: how likely is that strategy going to give us what we most currently need, which is top end front line talent? (at least imo)  Won't it be players like Nordstrom, or at best maybe a TT, that come into play?  It's not like anyone is going to be struggling with the question of whether or not to protect one of their top six. In the past those types of players would have helped the Canes.  But aren't we approaching the point there we've got enough depth and "mid-tier" talent?  Or will have very soon, with prospects like Roy, Kuokkenen, and Gauthier, not to mention some still promising current AHLers (including Nesty, who I hope returns to the form he showed last season)?

 

While I'm not willing to mortgage our future for the now, I'm very conscious of how often a proven top line talent becomes available and the potential opportunity cost in not investigating one when he does.  I'm certainly not advocating significantly overpaying, but sometimes it's worth it to pay a slight premium if a particular piece can markedly improve your bottom line. Is Duchene such a piece?  Opinions will vary. I wouldn't quite put him in the "elite" category, but I suspect that if you asked completely unbiased hockey analysts, almost all would say that he's a notch above any of the centers currently on the Canes.  Imo, you don't even need to look at the numbers; his contributions to Team Canada, the most elite group of talent in the world, makes a pretty strong case for the type of player that Duchene is.

 

Just another perspective . . .

 

 

edit: as far as our exposure to the expansion draft: I believe last I checked we'd have to expose one of Nordstrom or Stempniak. If we got a player like Duchene which forced us to expose both?  I could live with that.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Beginning tonight we have eight games before trade deadline. Sixteen points up for grabs. I think Francis and company wait at least six games before deciding what to do at trade deadline. If this group has a legitimate shot at the last playoff spot doesn't the brain trust owe it to the players that got them in a position to challenge for a playoff spot and the fans who have endured so many seasons of non-playoff appearances to give this group a chance. 

 

I don't know the answer but suspect if we are in a legitimate playoff position we add one or two players that enhance the chance but probable not that big trade we are speculating on. If we are in a position of only having a slight chance I expect out UFAs are all going to be on the market.  I'm sure Francis would rather get something  even if not a big something rather than nothing at the end of the season.

 

 

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I just read the expansion rules.  We barely have enough eligible players to protect, so there is no issue there.  The rub is that every team has to expose two forwards, one defenseman and one goalie that meet the rules in the link above

 

Forwards:  Nordstrom and Stepnaik:  Both meet all the requirements.  No issue here.

 

Goalie:  Lack, same as the forwards.  

 

Defenseman:  As of right now, the only player we have eligible to expose is Faulk.  However, Dahlbeck is a RFA but meets all other requirements.  As I read the rules. the RFA qualifying offer exception only applies to goalies.  I wonder if we give him an extension prior to the draft.  Tennyson is a UFA and has to play 10 more games this year to qualify.  I guess we could trade for someone, but we may have to pay more than we normally would.

 

It will be interesting to see what we do.

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I am still debating whether we are outmatched talent wise or not to some of the more higher powered teams in our conference.  We will see what tonight holds against Washington.  Sometimes I feel we just can't compete with Pitt or Wash due to the forwards that they have.

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3 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

I am still debating whether we are outmatched talent wise or not to some of the more higher powered teams in our conference.  We will see what tonight holds against Washington.  Sometimes I feel we just can't compete with Pitt or Wash due to the forwards that they have.

 

I don't think it is the forwards alone where we can't compete...

 

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59 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Beginning tonight we have eight games before trade deadline. Sixteen points up for grabs. I think Francis and company wait at least six games before deciding what to do at trade deadline. If this group has a legitimate shot at the last playoff spot doesn't the brain trust owe it to the players that got them in a position to challenge for a playoff spot and the fans who have endured so many seasons of non-playoff appearances to give this group a chance. 

 

I don't know the answer but suspect if we are in a legitimate playoff position we add one or two players that enhance the chance but probable not that big trade we are speculating on. If we are in a position of only having a slight chance I expect out UFAs are all going to be on the market.  I'm sure Francis would rather get something  even if not a big something rather than nothing at the end of the season.

 

 

 

Unless the team is realistically out of it at the deadline, I don't see Francis selling anything (as if he has anything to sell).  He doesn't have any big chess pieces on the board that could be played.  If the team is somewhat in the same position as last year (just on the outside looking in), I think he just stands pat and leaves it in the players' hands.  I think if the team makes a legit push in these next few games and closes to "just out" or "just in", he may look to add a player or two for the push.  I agree, I think the team and the fans deserve a shot.

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2 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

Unless the team is realistically out of it at the deadline, I don't see Francis selling anything (as if he has anything to sell).

 

Hainsey. He has had a good year and is great on the PK. Some team would snap him up for a third at the deadline...maybe a second. If we are waffling about our chances, send him to a legitimate contender so he finally gets the chance and we don't waste the resource. Then call up Fleury and see what we've got. Our rebuild is not so fool-proof yet that we can waste a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a maybe. 

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