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Yeah the problem with paying Bishop is that you get another big contract and he may or may not be worth it.

 

I wasn't fully serious about the Bishop thing, but I really would do the other one.

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If Eddie had not peed in BP corn flakes he could have done a decent job as the number 2. Now riding Cam game after game has caught up and there are no options...Though the issues of struggling to score the puck are the largest of the 2 dilemmas imo, nonetheless its the same ole same ole here....move along folks just part of the rebuild

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13 hours ago, TheFaulker said:

Rumor is that Galchenyuk is available. Would he be cheaper than Duchene or Landeskog?

Not sure what Montreal would want from us. I think Montreal is looking for more offense and it would appear that they are looking for rental players for this years push. Galchenyuk is young but is being ridiculed for being a one way offensive player. His +/- isn't bad but he doesn't offer much grit. His playing minutes have been declining. I'm not so sure he would be cheap either as he is an RFA  and expectations are that his demands will be high next year. I'm not sure he is the guy we need at this point.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/players/659856/mikhail-grigorenko/#Points Per Game$Trades=1&GameType=279588574&SeasonMax=9999&SeasonMin=1990

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

 

Hmmm. I pull that trigger. Due respect to Justin.

 

I pull it only if the deal is right. Not with a first rounder and prospect added on. That isn't saying we won't need to add something but not that high a price.

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2 hours ago, remkin said:

 

Hmmm. I pull that trigger. Due respect to Justin.

The Tweet's originator wouldn't either.  I listened to his podcast and the feeling is they don't need an offensive minded blueliner.  They want someone to play defense.

 

Its somewhere just after 19:00 minute mark if I'm not mistaken. Podcast

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I think i speak for most people when I say, I'm on the fence regarding a trade right now. Francis has been phenomenal in his drafting and trading thus far. He obviously put the team in a position where we can afford to make a trade for a big name like Duchene or Landeskog. However, I'm not entirely convinced the timing is right for it to happen before this year's deadline. Yes, Duchene for Faulk is enticing, and seems to be fair value-wise. And yes, we have the defensive depth, on paper, to come out ok in this scenario. The reason I say "on paper" is because the names pop out when looking over the roster/prospects but we really haven't seen enough from the young defenders as a whole to say we'd be fine without Faulk. 

Slavin and Pesce have obviously impressed and could be our top pairing in the near future. Hanifin hasn't blossomed yet but that could be due to management rushing his development. There is clearly still loads of potential there and I'm not too concerned about him. The issue becomes, where does the offensive production come from on defense? Faulk is the only one producing right now and I think we'd see a big difference without him. Another big issue is Faulk being a RHD. I think McKeown is the only RHD prospect showing promise of becoming an NHL defender. Faulk could be tough replace. So, while getting an upper-tier/elite level forward, we'd be giving up our upper-tier/elite level RHD who puts up lots of points. Those are highly coveted in the league. Is giving up highly productive RHD worth giving up for a forward like Duchene?

 

Would it make us a playoff team this year? Maybe. Would it make us a playoff team down the road? Most likely. But when looking at our current young core and current prospects, I'm more than convinced we are a future playoff team without making a move like this. Roy, Gautheir, Kuokkanen all look like future NHL players. Bean, Fleury, McKeown as well.

The question is how patient should we be? And how close are those players to being ready for the NHL? We've done so well finding prospects, and those prospects look like studs. Shouldn't we wait to see what we have before trading away one of our best players? Making a trade right now would be a sign we a trying to make the playoffs right now. But even with the trade, it doesn't guarantee we actually make the playoffs. Which means we'd be giving up a rarity in Faulk without the immediate reward of the playoffs. 

 

Sorry if that's all over the place. What it boils down to is, are we so desperate for the playoffs this year that we need to take a risk and trade a player that will be very hard to replace?

 

LW:                                              C:                                       RW:
Jeff Skinner                                 Victor Rask                        Julien Gauthier
Sebastian Aho                            Jordan Staal                       Elias Lindholm
Janne Kuokkanen                       Nicolas Roy                       Teuvo Teravainen
Joakim Nordstrom                      Derek Ryan                        Brock McGinn

How far are we from seeing this lineup? I could see Roy and Gauthier making the jump next year, Kuokkanen may take another year. Does that not excite anyone else? I know it's a super young team, but it could be a lot of fun. When looking at this, it makes me think a desperation trade that doesn't guarantee the playoffs this year isn't worth it. We are only in year 3 of the Francis rebuild. I say let it play out. 

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Well, I've posted it already I know, but I don't think Duchene helps us much. If we do get him and I'm wrong, that's awesome. I just don't see him bringing anything like the grit we need to win in this division. The lineup posted by The Faulker is potentially exciting, but if RF is true to his word, neither Kouk nor Gauthier is here next year. Both are still in Juniors and I think the Hanifin experience has only further steeled Ronnie's resolve not to rush anybody.

 

So let's say, realistically, they make the roster not next year but in 2018-19. If the goal is improving on the weak areas of our game every season, who currently in the organization brings BOTH the leadership and physicality this team has lacked since 2006, and can bridge us to the guys we're developing? Realistically Roy and Kouk and Gauthier are five years from their NHL prime. Do Jordan, Skinner, Rask, or does anyone else on the roster still look like a Captain to anyone here? 

 

Two Eastern teams need new leadership: us and Boston. If the overnight reports are right, Boston is close to getting Landeskog; Sakic was reportedly at the Bruins game last night. And if Dater's report on Faulk being in play is right, that leaves one question: In exchange for whom? Reports seem to indicate we want Duchene. 

 

That's why Ronnie's got the job and not me--but personally, I'd much rather get a rough-and-tumble potential Captain who can score than another deke-'em/dodge-'em "elite center" whose game may or may not translate to this Conference.  

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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10 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

The lineup posted by The Faulker is potentially exciting, but if RF is true to his word, neither Kouk nor Gauthier is here next year. Both are still in Juniors and I think the Hanifin experience has only further steeled Ronnie's resolve not to rush anybody.

 

Gauthier is eligible to be a full time AHL player next year as he will be twenty before the end of December and will have played four years in juniors. He is either in Charlotte or Raleigh next year. Kuokkanen is probably going back to Finland next year. There is reportedly some friction between the Finnish club and Kuokkanen and the Knights that will probably have him return there for next year to continue development.

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12 minutes ago, MinJaBen said:

 

Gauthier is eligible to be a full time AHL player next year as he will be twenty before the end of December and will have played four years in juniors. He is either in Charlotte or Raleigh next year. Kuokkanen is probably going back to Finland next year. There is reportedly some friction between the Finnish club and Kuokkanen and the Knights that will probably have him return there for next year to continue development.

Yeah, my point re both was that they're probably not in Raleigh, and I doubt Roy is, either. I think (hope) Ronnie is done rushing guys to the NHL. I think everybody gets at least a year in the A going forward, unless we somehow win the lottery when a generational talent is available.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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I am not trying to start a new debate, and I know I lot of people on here think this way, but every time we've started losing, the "we need more grit" comes out. And it may be true. I frankly don't know. It's much less measurable than the importance of other things that have been debated here. Clearly hockey is physical game. But the intimidation factor is not a huge part of most teams that have contended for the cup, including the closest thing to a dynasty in hockey, the Blackhawks. (But also the Penguins, the Lightning, the Red Wings of the fairly recent past). Yes, LA got some cups with a heavy game, but speed and scoring seems more important. Washington can hit for sure, but what is dominant about them is putting up 5 goals per night.

 

A huge hit is demoralizing. A goal against is far more demoralizing.

 

Saying Duchene wouldn't add much is like saying Aho hasn't added much. One of my favorite players of the past was Tuomo Ruutu. That guy could hit hard and score. But when his scoring dried up, he was really not useful anymore, to be frank.

 

Gauthier and Roy can both hit. Kuokanen is another small, skilled guy.

 

I am not against adding grit. But it must be harder than we think to find, because adding a "gritty winger than can put up some points" has been on the check list for ever.

 

Last year, the teams that lead the league in scoring all made the playoffs except one.

 

Again, if Landeskog can get back to his offense, he may have a better blend of grit and scoring, and I'd be great with him. But Duchene would add a lot.

Edited by remkin
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13 hours ago, TheFaulker said:



 

 

Would it make us a playoff team this year? Maybe. Would it make us a playoff team down the road? Most likely. But when looking at our current young core and current prospects, I'm more than convinced we are a future playoff team without making a move like this. Roy, Gautheir, Kuokkanen all look like future NHL players. Bean, Fleury, McKeown as well.

The question is how patient should we be? And how close are those players to being ready for the NHL? We've done so well finding prospects, and those prospects look like studs. Shouldn't we wait to see what we have before trading away one of our best players? Making a trade right now would be a sign we a trying to make the playoffs right now. But even with the trade, it doesn't guarantee we actually make the playoffs. Which means we'd be giving up a rarity in Faulk without the immediate reward of the playoffs. 

 

Sorry if that's all over the place. What it boils down to is, are we so desperate for the playoffs this year that we need to take a risk and trade a player that will be very hard to replace?

 

LW:                                              C:                                       RW:
Jeff Skinner                                 Victor Rask                        Julien Gauthier
Sebastian Aho                            Jordan Staal                       Elias Lindholm
Janne Kuokkanen                       Nicolas Roy                       Teuvo Teravainen
Joakim Nordstrom                      Derek Ryan                        Brock McGinn

How far are we from seeing this lineup? I could see Roy and Gauthier making the jump next year, Kuokkanen may take another year. Does that not excite anyone else? I know it's a super young team, but it could be a lot of fun. When looking at this, it makes me think a desperation trade that doesn't guarantee the playoffs this year isn't worth it. We are only in year 3 of the Francis rebuild. I say let it play out. 

IMO RF is at the most critical period and at a fork in the road of the 5 year build. I don't view a trade right now as a sign that we are trying to make the playoffs but to build the team forward. Do we make the playoffs this year with an addition of MD or GL? No we don't. Do we miss the playoffs because Faulk or another D prospect is traded, No. I can't believe that either MD or GL would be a miss in this organization as both are proven NHL players. The team needs to be continually infused with current NHL proven talent to keep up with the 5 year plan. If Faulk or another Dman is moved RF needs to be busy in the off season.The lineup posted above looks promising but that is having three NHL unproven rookies in our lineup two years down the road. Is this the lineup I want to see after a 5 year build and a team that will get us to making the playoffs on a continual basis? Probably not. I believe we need two additional forwards, two defensive players and a Goalie to keep pace with the build. RF has to keep infusing the core to have any effect of our yutes to add the value when they are NHL ready. A trade happening now isn't a luxury but rather a necessity.  

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So it's either acquire proven NHL forwards to bolster our top 6.  Continue to be mediocre and build from the draft and sign 3rd liners and give them top 5 minutes and proceed to miss the playoffs for another 5 years.  Or option 3 is to tank this season, and acquire a top notch prospect in order to put us over the top.  Something tells me it will be option 2.

Edited by bluedevil58

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34 minutes ago, remkin said:

 

 

I am not against adding grit. But it must be harder than we think to find, because adding a "gritty winger than can put up some points" has been on the check list for ever.

 

Last year, the teams that lead the league in scoring all made the playoffs except one.

 

Again, if Landeskog can get back to his offense, he may have a better blend of grit and scoring, and I'd be great with him. But Duchene would add a lot.

Landeskog has been turning it on as of late and has 5 points in his last five games. He took 8 shots against Pitt and tallied one goal. My definition of Grit isn't someone who is always throwing the body but does so when it is required. We have always been discussing net front presence and the need for someone to fill that role. Our current team has shown that we can do it and when we do we are effective. As Top has posted previously many of our guys refuse to do it on a continual basis and do not play the system on a nightly basis.I wouldn't label Aho gritty but he is the guy that is always inside the dots and is buzzing the net. I would take MD or GL without the discussion of who can provide grit but who can bring the organization forward with additional offense.

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14 hours ago, TheFaulker said:

I think i speak for most people when I say, I'm on the fence regarding a trade right now. Francis has been phenomenal in his drafting and trading thus far. He obviously put the team in a position where we can afford to make a trade for a big name like Duchene or Landeskog. However, I'm not entirely convinced the timing is right for it to happen before this year's deadline. Yes, Duchene for Faulk is enticing, and seems to be fair value-wise. And yes, we have the defensive depth, on paper, to come out ok in this scenario. The reason I say "on paper" is because the names pop out when looking over the roster/prospects but we really haven't seen enough from the young defenders as a whole to say we'd be fine without Faulk. 

Slavin and Pesce have obviously impressed and could be our top pairing in the near future. Hanifin hasn't blossomed yet but that could be due to management rushing his development. There is clearly still loads of potential there and I'm not too concerned about him. The issue becomes, where does the offensive production come from on defense? Faulk is the only one producing right now and I think we'd see a big difference without him. Another big issue is Faulk being a RHD. I think McKeown is the only RHD prospect showing promise of becoming an NHL defender. Faulk could be tough replace. So, while getting an upper-tier/elite level forward, we'd be giving up our upper-tier/elite level RHD who puts up lots of points. Those are highly coveted in the league. Is giving up highly productive RHD worth giving up for a forward like Duchene?

 

Would it make us a playoff team this year? Maybe. Would it make us a playoff team down the road? Most likely. But when looking at our current young core and current prospects, I'm more than convinced we are a future playoff team without making a move like this. Roy, Gautheir, Kuokkanen all look like future NHL players. Bean, Fleury, McKeown as well.

The question is how patient should we be? And how close are those players to being ready for the NHL? We've done so well finding prospects, and those prospects look like studs. Shouldn't we wait to see what we have before trading away one of our best players? Making a trade right now would be a sign we a trying to make the playoffs right now. But even with the trade, it doesn't guarantee we actually make the playoffs. Which means we'd be giving up a rarity in Faulk without the immediate reward of the playoffs. 

 

Sorry if that's all over the place. What it boils down to is, are we so desperate for the playoffs this year that we need to take a risk and trade a player that will be very hard to replace?

 

LW:                                              C:                                       RW:
Jeff Skinner                                 Victor Rask                        Julien Gauthier
Sebastian Aho                            Jordan Staal                       Elias Lindholm
Janne Kuokkanen                       Nicolas Roy                       Teuvo Teravainen
Joakim Nordstrom                      Derek Ryan                        Brock McGinn

How far are we from seeing this lineup? I could see Roy and Gauthier making the jump next year, Kuokkanen may take another year. Does that not excite anyone else? I know it's a super young team, but it could be a lot of fun. When looking at this, it makes me think a desperation trade that doesn't guarantee the playoffs this year isn't worth it. We are only in year 3 of the Francis rebuild. I say let it play out. 

I see us missing the playoffs for two more years if we go with this lineup.  you have to assume Gauth and Kukk are gonna take a year or two before they put up the goals we need.  We need NHL top 6 fire power added to that.  Rask is not a first line center in my opinion.  This would look great with a true first line center added in.   

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35 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

So it's either acquire proven NHL forwards to bolster our top 6.  Continue to be mediocre and build from the draft and sign 3rd liners and give them top 5 minutes and proceed to miss the playoffs for another 5 years.  Or option 3 is to tank this season, and acquire a top notch prospect in order to put us over the top.  Something tells me it will be option 2.

It better not be option 2.  RF has got to do something about our top 6.  It's close to being dangerous but a little short of the competitions top 6.  I think he makes some big moves or acquisitions at dead line or this summer.  We cannot just keep going with this group, I like them all but they need NHL proven help.  Now that we pretty much have no chance of playoffs again, I guess it will have to be this summer.  Sick and tired of waiting, He better get the fan base excited with a  big acquisition soon.

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top and rem, I love your debate and see merits in both sides. As I see it, the term "grit", as likely does many concepts we banter around in these threads, has a unique meaning depending on who's using the term. To some, it might be the hulking presence frequently in the past known as an enforcer. Others might equate the term, not to size, but to a player capable of separating an opponent from the puck, no matter the physical size of the hitter. Another definition that can be seen is one who "has his teammates' back". I see "grit" applied to the player who goes into dirty corners and comes out with the puck, or one who refuses to be moved when he gets in front of the net? Maybe one associates the term with those players who sacrifice their bodies in front of 100mph shots?

 

Different combinations and permutations of all of those attributes are each of our mind's eye view of a "gritty player". I certainly can't answer who is my "gritty player", but what I do know, that for about as long as I can recall, our team, the Hurricanes, are epitomized as the antithesis of a "gritty team". Easy to play against, the "Candy Canes", etc are other synonyms for our guys.

 

The other thing I know is about as long as I've heard those derogatory terms used to characterize this team, I've also heard the complaint of "no net front presence".

 

The grittiness term crystalizes for me, when I see, 1st hand, a term which displays it on the ice in comparison to our guys. I mean, we get pinned into our D end for excruciatingly long periods of time, opposing players set up camp around Cam, our guys tire and invariably I see a goal against.

 

Now maybe this all points out that there needs to be  an entire team by in, as no single player can provide all these elements, but, like top I think if focusing on, I surely would like to see just one player who can be that factor in the paint, and be an unmovable presence in front of the opposing goalie. To me, and I'm forgetting the Red Wings' player who use to epitomize that, but when you have someone of that ilk, it exponentially increases a team's sniper's abilities. That is where I'd like to see our "grit".

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I agree a certain amount of grit is needed but not at the expense of speed. If we had a lethal power play or at least an above average  power play teams wouldn't be able to take liberties. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, OBXer said:

I agree a certain amount of grit is needed but not at the expense of speed. If we had a lethal power play or at least an above average  power play teams wouldn't be able to take liberties. 

 

 

That.  If taking liberties with the Canes meant a PPG against, that would stop as many liberties as a gritty player sticking up for teammates.  Not that they aren't both important, of course.

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From CBS Sports

 

Quote

At the end of the day, whoever gets Duchene might have one job: Outbidding the Carolina Hurricanes

 

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16 minutes ago, OBXer said:

From CBS Sports

 

 

I wasn't taking it seriously before, but the more blurbs like this i see, the more i raise my ears.  It's getting interesting.

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I wonder who the author of that blurb is?  Av's fans don't think much of Adran Dater's recent revelations.  Lot's of smoke though, which is normal when two teams seem to fit well for a hockey trade in the age of click bait.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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