Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
OBXer

Trade rumors and talk

Recommended Posts

On the Ottawa Senators and Colorado Avalanche …

Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun: Ottawa Senators GM Pierre Dorion was on TSN 1200 yesterday and confirmed that he’s spoken with Colorado Avalanche GM Joe Sakic. Dorion indicated a deal was unlikely due to the high asking price, and didn’t say whether they talked Matt Duchene and/or Gabriel Landeskog.

It is believed that the Avalanche are asking for Cody Ceci, a 2017 first round pick, one of Thomas Chabot or Colin White, plus more for Duchene or Landeskog

“I don’t think the reports are always accurate and sometimes it’s better to hear from the horse’s mouth. Joe and I talked and, at this point in time, I can’t see us going in that direction. It wouldn’t make sense. We want to do something to try to improve the team and making deals is very difficult to do.”

Dorion added to give up three or four or five future assets would be really hard to do in any deal.

 

 

So that would suggest that Sakic is still in the asking for the moon area.

 

But....

 

Terry Frei of the Denver Post: Avs GM Joe Sakic is expected to be with the team today as they play in New Jersey. He’ll be with them in Buffalo on Thursday and Carolina on Friday. Sakic will be watching Hurricanes defensemen Justin Faulk, Jaccob Slavin, Brett Pesce and Ryan Murphy. The Hurricanes also have defensive prospects in Jake Bean, Haydn Fleury and Roland McKeown.

 


That is yet more smoke to the possible ongoing trade talk fire in our back yard .

 

The above suggests Sakic wants to get multiple guys: how about Faulk, Murphy and a second rounder for Duchene or Landeskog?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Murphy is in the lineup Friday, that would represent a bit more than smoke to me, maybe even a little spark.  Not that he'd be more than a throw in on any deal, but I can't see why we'd play him if not to showcase him for Sakic. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reports over on Avs board quote a guy who's apparently well plugged into the Bruins org and well respected.  He say's a Bruins Avs deal is close and Sakic has decisions to make regarding scouting (I'm guessing for some of the add-ons).  Reports are that Bruins are after Landeskog, so even if true, Duchene would still be in play.
 

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, remkin said:
 

The above suggests Sakic wants to get multiple guys: how about Faulk, Murphy and a second rounder for Duchene or Landeskog?

I've been saying Faulk and Murph since my first post on this thread--plus Lack for Jeremy Smith, their journeyman AHL keeper who recently did his first backup stint in Denver.

 

I'd give Faulk, Murph and a second (or McKeown or Carrick--Sakic's choice) for Landeskog in hopes of swiping him from the Bruins. Duchene brings nothing close to the physicality and leadership this team has lacked since Roddy retired.  

 

There is also reason to believe we could still be in the running for Gabe. This posted to TheFourthPeriod four days ago. There's no way I move Slavin (or Pesce), but the elephant in the room is that Jaccob's from just north of Denver, and probably grew up an Avs fan.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

This is cool.  So for comparison, Skinner (13%) and Aho (12%) collectively account for 25% of the Canes goals this season.

Not sure if the data is old or how he calculates "Primary Points" in the table.  I took Primary Points as Goal and 1st Assist when I read it.  However, some show fewer "Primary Points" than goals they've scored.  For example, Jeff Carter has 29 goals at present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think primary points are goals and primary assists but I'm not sure.  I didn't feel like checking.  Aho probably has more primary assists than Skinner so from that perspective he's probably made more of a contribution.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not trade Slavin for either of those guys straight up.  He is already as good or better than both Duchesne and Skog, he's younger, and cheaper.  It would make no sense from our PoV.   There is no such thing as an untradeable guy on our team, but Slavin is the closest thing to it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Sakic can windowshop Slavin and Pesce all he wants but he can't afford em.

 

 

 

 

Not true, I'd let him have Slavin for Mac, Landy, and Duchy. Seems fair to me. I'd even throw in PDG or McGinn.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

If Murphy is in the lineup Friday, that would represent a bit more than smoke to me, maybe even a little spark.  Not that he'd be more than a throw in on any deal, but I can't see why we'd play him if not to showcase him for Sakic. 

I agree, it would also represent a higher possibility for a loss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

I agree, it would also represent a higher possibility for a loss.

Or, if Murph is going to look good against anybody, the worst team in the league is his best shot at doing so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ironman87 said:

I would not trade Slavin for either of those guys straight up.  He is already as good or better than both Duchesne and Skog, he's younger, and cheaper.  It would make no sense from our PoV.   There is no such thing as an untradeable guy on our team, but Slavin is the closest thing to it.

No way I give up Slavin (or Pesce) at all, for anybody. We haven't had a shutdown D pair since 2006, and it is borderline miraculous that they have developed such chemistry so early in their careers. This is a pairing that can lead the way on D for this team for the next decade or more. I can see RF treating them like the Sedin twins: Inseparable. As he should.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, to me Slavin and Pesce are 1-2 on the no trade list. Sure if we got some crazy return maybe, but that's not happening.

 

Interesting that Duchene is on the list Lake brought us.

 

But what stuck me was Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews both on the list accounting for around 45% of Toronto's goals. Both guys new to the team, both kids. Both elite, picked #1 and #4. They have turned Toronto around on a dime from bottom dweller to playoff team in one year. Yes, they have a great coach and other factors, but take that scoring away and they're easily near the bottom again. Similarly, Connor McDavid, while he doesn't have a teammate on the list, is at the very top. I heard it said on XM about a week ago, that if you take Connor McDavid's effect off the team, they're back near the basement too.

 

This is why a deal "like" the one we keep kicking around probably has to happen at some point if we are to hit Francis' goal of yearly cup contender. You just need that guy. At least Duchene or Landeskog are close. I keep coming back to Johansen and Hall as the only seriously point producing forwards traded for in the last couple of years. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but these deals just don't happen that often.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me Slavin and Pesce or the equivalent to what Nashville had for years in Weber and Sutter (SP?).  No way would I trade them.  I don't think a move will be made.  But I also don't think that building from the draft and adding value signings/ acquisitions over the off season is the solution either.   I mean seriously, how many first round picks have turned out to be complete busts with us?  I also think it is foolish to project Roy and Gauthier and even Fleury in our line up next season and then we will be ok.  A move or moves have to be made but I am not sure as to what moves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MinJaBen said:

 

Not true, I'd let him have Slavin for Mac, Landy, and Duchy. Seems fair to me. I'd even throw in PDG or McGinn.

 

Then after the deal you step back, look at the line up and drop an F bomb when you see what you did to the defense lol.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

To me Slavin and Pesce or the equivalent to what Nashville had for years in Weber and Sutter (SP?).  No way would I trade them.  I don't think a move will be made.  But I also don't think that building from the draft and adding value signings/ acquisitions over the off season is the solution either.   I mean seriously, how many first round picks have turned out to be complete busts with us?  I also think it is foolish to project Roy and Gauthier and even Fleury in our line up next season and then we will be ok.  A move or moves have to be made but I am not sure as to what moves.

 

I actually agree with you. Betting on no move is always the safe bet, since few trades actually happen, though I really wonder here. It all comes down to how highly Sakic values what we are offering. I think if All Star, goal producing young Veteran Faulk is in play, and Sakic likes him, that could be a sell high scenario, or at worst a fair hockey trade.

 

But while I am very bullish on Gauthier, and Fleury, and bullish on Roy, it is a fair point that none of them are like to come in and be major pieces right off the bat, and that means all of next year. Sure, they could, but looking even one year ahead, where is the improvement going to come from in terms of additions-subtractions that put us into the playoffs next year. Sure, maybe this year, one more time, improvement with no playoffs is enough. But next year? Not likely.

 

IF that is true, then adding a piece has to happen before next year. I am open to offseason moves, and the expansion draft might shake something loose, but that won't help this year's team.

 

Also, while a trade right now could shake the team up in a negative way, it also could shake the team up in a positive way. And the way the last 8-10 games have gone, shaking up might be worth trying.

 

I'll add a sort of subtle advantage to getting a guy now. There is a known tendency for guys to sometimes struggle with their new team. It often lasts a good half season. While I have no doubt that Duchene or Landeskog would help this year, getting them into the system a year ahead could really help then break out fast next year.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, remkin said:

This is why a deal "like" the one we keep kicking around probably has to happen at some point if we are to hit Francis' goal of yearly cup contender. You just need that guy. 

I'm just going to push back a little and reiterate that we have guys with elite scoring ability. What we lack - and what stats like those Lake shared, which look at scoring percentages, don't take into account - are the things that enable players like that to work their magic. We're not called the CandyCanes around the league for nothing, and until we get those one or two guys up front who can bang - and score - with the best of them, other teams will know that they only need to shut down our one-dimensional players to win games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, remkin said:

It all comes down to how highly Sakic values what we are offering. I think if All Star, goal producing young Veteran Faulk is in play, and Sakic likes him, that could be a sell high scenario, or at worst a fair hockey trade.

Actually the good news in all the rumors (to me) is that we've clearly entered that phase of RF's plan where we are going to actively pursue and acquire the pieces we need to complete the rebuild. It's unfortunate that the ExDraft is happening because it is a fly in the ointment; without it, RF probably would have mades the bold moves which some complained about him not making, last off-season. But he was smart enough to see that doing it then made no sense, with the draft looming. He knew that guys like TT (young, clearly skilled, and still learning the NHL game but with the hockey IQ to succeed) and like Stemp and Stalberg (seasoned vets who will only help you on the ice and in the room) were safe, high-percentage moves, while Stemp and Stalberg were also guys you'd be fine with exposing this summer. 

 

The fact that we finished last season about a year ahead of schedule turned out to be really fortuitous, because the coming draft essentially forced us into a year-long holding pattern. On the plus side, however, it let us confirm that guys like TT and Aho and Lindy will be pieces here for the long term. The Avs rumors are just indicative, to me, that Ronnie is moving into the next phase, and that whether it happens now or in the summer, he's not going to throw away clear, proven positives in a gamble that this or that guy coming back is "the key." If the last 10 years have taught us nothing else, it's that there is no one key. RF is building to be solid top-to-bottom for the foreseeable future, and that is tough because it means disappointing some fans in the short term. But for me, just knowing we're on a clear path is huge; it's something we were never able to say during JR's last seven years in the GM's chair.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I'm just going to push back a little and reiterate that we have guys with elite scoring ability. What we lack - and what stats like those Lake shared, which look at scoring percentages, don't take into account - are the things that enable players like that to work their magic. We're not called the CandyCanes around the league for nothing, and until we get those one or two guys up front who can bang - and score - with the best of them, other teams will know that they only need to shut down our one-dimensional players to win games.

Good debate. I really am intrigued by the idea: how much grit do you need? There is no doubt in my mind that you need guys who will go into the corners and dig the puck out, and guys in front of both nets. After that? In today's NHL, I think you need less intimidation by far, than you used to. Those physically imposing teams with lower end skill can have nice seasons, but rarely, if every win cups anymore. LA is the closest exception, but it's not like they don't have Doughty, Carter, Kopitar, Gaborik and Quick.

 

It gets back to the three line or even four line team. You can't stop our one guy if we have 7 of them on three lines. Like, say Pittsburgh or Chicago of old.

 

Still, I don't disagree that you can't have 9 guys who don't dig the puck out and don't go to the net. Ideally I think each line would have two scorers and one facilitator who mostly goes to the dirty areas to get the puck.

 

I would say that if Francis picks up Landeskog, he sort of does that (your point). But if he picks up Duchene, we could still make some changes to tweak things at some point if certain guys are scoring OK but not great, and want to trade for more a more physical guy.

 

We could pick up a UFA with grit maybe. Or we could deal some finesse for grit to make that adjustment if needed.

 

Neither Mitch Marner (tiny) or Auston Matthews are physically intimidating, but their point production has changed everything for Toronto. Interestingly, a couple of years ago we had a discussion about Marner, who is, again, tiny vs. Lawson Crouse, who is physically imposing but still thought to be a decent offensive upside. Both guys went to bad teams in the first round. Of course Marner gets Matthews, but still...so far Marner: 48 points 55 games, Crouse: 8 points 49 games. Time will tell, but I know who I'd pick.

 

The other thing is this. If you go and look at the cup winners since and including our Cup team, every one of them has at least one clearly elite forward, and almost all have two of them.

 

I get that Aho or heck maybe Lindholm, or eventually Teravainen or Gauthier, or Roy, could get there, but our chances increase if we get that guy some other way. And this does not preclude re-balancing the team if we need to trade talent for grit at some point.

 

Are Landeskog or Duchene that elite? That would be a good question. Duchene has had a year where he clearly was. But overall, probably just off that. Landeskog, no, but has the potential, and brings other intangibles.

 

I'm not saying we end up making this deal. But I hope we do if it involves Faulk, and retains other major pieces here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, remkin said:

 

I'm not saying we end up making this deal. But I hope we do if it involves Faulk, and retains other major pieces here.

 

The only way I see us moving Faulk is if it's Faulk and only Faulk.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Actually the good news in all the rumors to me is that we've clearly entered that phase of RF's plan where we are going to actively pursue and acquire the piece we need to complete the rebuild. It's unfortunate that the ExDraft is happening because it is a fly in the ointment; without it, RF probably makes the bold moves which some have complained about him not making last off-season. But doing it then made no sense with the draft looming. He knew that guys like TT (young, clearly skilled, and still learning the NHL game but with the hockey IQ to succeed) and like Stemp and Stalberg (seasoned vets who will only help you on the ice and in the room) were safe, high-percentage moves that also gave you guys you'd be fine with exposing this summer. 

 

The fact that we finished last season about a year ahead of schedule turned out to be really fortuitous, because the coming draft essentially forced us into a holding pattern. On the plus side, however, it let us confirm that guys like TT and Aho and Lindy will be pieces here for the long term. The Avs rumors are just indicative, to me, that Ronnie is moving into the next phase, and that whether it happens now or in the summer, he's not going to throw away clear, proven positives in a gamble that this or that guy is "the key." If the last 10 years have taught us nothing else, it's that there is no one key. RF is building to be solid top-to-bottom for the foreseeable future, and that is tough because it means disappointing some fans in the short term. But for me, just knowing we're on a clear path is huge; it's something we were never able to say during JR's last seven years in the GM's chair.


As you know that is mostly what my position is in terms of the phased rebuild. Not really Earth-shattering, but a reasonable way to look at the process.

 

Here is a question I'm pondering though. How do we get a big fish from the expansion draft? If you have a guy like that isn't he pretty much automatically going to be protected? Seems to me that the expansion draft is going to loose guys who are underperforming bad contracts, or marginal players, especially scorers who aren't scoring. Say we still had "he who shall not be named-sky". We'd just expose him.

 

I'm not seeing how this would free up anyone but a team's worst value up front. I guess it is a league-wide shake up that could shake something loose, but I would think we'd have a better shot at another cap-relief deal netting us a prime forward than getting is as an expansion draft casualty.

 

It would seem to me at first glance anyways, that the big exception could be goalie. Since some teams have two good ones and have to expose one. The flipside is that one team can only actually take 2? goalies in the draft, but if you have a really really good back up, you might want to trade him?

 

IF that's right, get the forward now, and the goalie before the expansion draft.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, remkin said:

Ideally I think each line would have two scorers and one facilitator who mostly goes to the dirty areas to get the puck.

This is exactly right.

 

I think the days of intimidation are long gone, and I couldn't be happier about it. But clean checking and the ability to muscle guys off the puck will always have a place, and when I look at our top two lines right now I three guys on both who play essentially the same games. McGinn and PDG could become two of the kind of guys I'm talking about, and of course Gauthier and Kouk project to do so as well. But we're ready for top-line-proven guys for those roles right now, IMO, to create some chaos in the O-zone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...