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Trade rumors and talk

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Just as a general statement on why I feel a shakeup is necessary, it gets tiring watching team jump past us.  You look at Toronto and Columbus.  Those were the two worst teams in the league last year, and now they're both in playoff position.  Toronto's only in their 2nd year of their rebuild.  And it's scary to think of how well Columbus is doing, and they're developing what appear to be a legit #1 Center in Dubois.  It wouldn't look as bad except for the fact that our team hasn't really improved on anything since last season.  Our offense hasn't gotten much better, our PP still sucks, goaltending still sucks.  It doesn't do anybody good if you're operating at status quo, and our status quo is the outside looking in.  I think our absolute necessities to keep, as far as the current roster, are:

 

Skinner/Rask/TT

Aho/Staal/Lindholm

Nordstrom/McClement/Stalberg

 

Slavin-Pesce

------  -Faulk

 

That leaves a full line open on offense, and half of the defense.  I think the likes of Roy and Gauthier don't have much further to go, and as mentioned in another thread I think Fleury will be ready to go next year.  I would put Hanifin in play for Duchene, any other prospect I have not mentioned for a legit goalie.  Also, with Hainsey's likely departure, I wouldn't mind Carolina targeting a legit RHD veteran in the offseason.

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PK, your points are well taken, but ... Ward is not even close to Bobrovski, and somehow, the team in front of him meshed this year in a way that is mystifying after last year's performance. Watch Columbus next year though. Torts has a history of cratering every where he has been after a really good season. It's hard to compare us to Toronto. They went all in to tank for Matthews, and their number came up. We have not had the chance to draft a guaranteed game changer like Matthews or McDavid. Plus, I know Toronto has a young team, and I'm not sure where they stand this moment as to the cap, but money is never an object when they see a player they want. They don't think twice about burying their mistakes in the minors, even if it costs millions of dollars. They sold out every game when they were terrible last year (and at much higher prices than tix in Raleigh), and 75% of all Canadian born players dream of playing for them. So it is a greater challenge to rebuild in a market like ours. But we have some good young players and the assets, if the will is there to address our need in goal by next year, and hopefully upgrade our team up front. It's painful, but we are closer than we have been in a long time if we manage our assets wisely. RF has loaded up on draft picks and seems to have drafted well. Now we need at least one trade to put the team over the top. Goalie? Forward? Both? Think Primeau for Brindy. RF has yet to prove he can make a real hockey trade that can change the course of the team, but that is the next step he needs to take.

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There are a few more occasional flashes of talent on this years group to include Ward. But Ward has always made great saves and always let in the cheesey shots. Overall its the same mess, we cant score and we cant defend..reference the gf/ga..I will admit the ga isnt all that horrible but its still -16.. BD you make a good point in the fact that we have had no lotto pick for a real game changer.. My two pennies, if you cant win the lotto, then you have to find away to get what you need and thats a full grown, big time hockey trade.. As it is, no one (other that the die hard fans) really want to attend the games as its the same ole same ole to most..Its time to make something happen RF/PK.....as judge Smails said......"Well were Waiting"

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I think the fundamental area where some of us are missing each other's point is around "offense" and "elite."

 

Of course we "need offense," i.e., pucks in the net. But elite scorers alone don't get you that in this league anymore, IMO--and the scoring numbers over the past 10 years back that up. If you're not creating chaos and screens in front, I don't care if you shoot the puck out of a howitzer; it's not finding the twine.

 

Now, that being said, what is "Elite"? Skinner, Aho, and Rask all have laser shots. So does TT. Lindholm and Staal are maybe a notch below them, but still very real threats.

 

But who is consistently creating that O-zone chaos? Nobody--despite 10 years of all of us saying "we never crash the net" and "we never hit anybody."

 

So yeah--let's get another sniper, instead of addressing the fundamental, long-term issue: We're doing nothing in the O-zone to take top D and keepers off their games and to "collect the garbage."

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I think the fundamental area where some of us are missing each other's point is around "offense" and "elite."

 

Of course we "need offense," i.e., pucks in the net. But elite scorers alone don't get you that in this league anymore, IMO--and the scoring numbers over the past 10 years back that up. If you're not creating chaos and screens in front, I don't care if you shoot the puck out of a howitzer; it's not finding the twine.

 

Now, that being said, what is "Elite"? Skinner, Aho, and Rask all have laser shots. So does TT. Lindholm and Staal are maybe a notch below them, but still very real threats.

 

But who is consistently creating that O-zone chaos? Nobody--despite 10 years of all of us saying "we never crash the net" and "we never hit anybody."

 

So yeah--let's get another sniper, instead of addressing the fundamental, long-tern issue: We're doing nothing in the O-zone to take top goaltenders off their games and to "collect the garbage."

 

Exactly. We are still looking for Brind'Amour 2.0

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Just now, winger52 said:

 

Exactly. We are still looking for Brind'Amour 2.0

Are we? That's the biggest question in my mind. I am confident that the people in charge are, but consistently stunned at how many fans still seem want Eric 2.0: A toothpick center who couldn't set a screen in a double-hung window.

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I'm not disagreeing the the basic notion of getting guys to the net. That is essential. Peters has been going on about it since he got here. Clearly it is important.

 

BUT, if a guy like Duchenne puts up 55-70 points every year on mostly bad teams, then those points are going in the net somehow. No matter how we characterize his game, it is working at that level, and there is little reason to believe he won't be able to put up at least 60 points here. (He's on a 55 point pace on a team that can't do anything). It is reasonable to project that he would, in essence replace the #9 forward by pushing everyone down. Essentially, trading Duchene for McGinn.

 

But not really because McGinn could be a great 4th liner. So in a way, maybe Nordstrom.

 

But that also doesn't fully account for the fact that Duchene has been scoring on #1 NHL D pairings consistently for years. He's not a one year flash, like say Tlusty was in the lockout year.

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I think the fundamental area where some of us are missing each other's point is around "offense" and "elite."

 

Of course we "need offense," i.e., pucks in the net. But elite scorers alone don't get you that in this league anymore, IMO--and the scoring numbers over the past 10 years back that up. If you're not creating chaos and screens in front, I don't care if you shoot the puck out of a howitzer; it's not finding the twine.

 

Now, that being said, what is "Elite"? Skinner, Aho, and Rask all have laser shots. So does TT. Lindholm and Staal are maybe a notch below them, but still very real threats.

 

But who is consistently creating that O-zone chaos? Nobody--despite 10 years of all of us saying "we never crash the net" and "we never hit anybody."

 

So yeah--let's get another sniper, instead of addressing the fundamental, long-term issue: We're doing nothing in the O-zone to take top D and keepers off their games and to "collect the garbage."

 

Taken from howtohockey.com

THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A CENTERMAN

In general the centerman is the “support man” this means he is helping out the other players when they are in trouble, the centerman is also considered the quaterback as he will win faceoffs, and lead breakouts. The wingers typically stick to their side of the ice, however the centermen has more freedom to roam. Even though the centerman covers the most amount of ice (and usually does the most skating) that does not mean you can just skate around and hope you get the puck. Your general duties as a centerman are to win faceoffs, cause trouble in front of the other teams net, stop players and pucks in front of your own net, score goals, make passes, help out your wingers, lead break-outs and back check.

The key words I took from this is lead breakouts and score goals.  You look at our entries, and often times it's the wingers that are moving the puck through, which starts our offensive attack in low percentage areas of the ice (side walls), which takes longer to set up scoring chances and makes it easier on the defense to neutralize our attacks.  And the fact of the matter is is that we only have 1 player on our team that has scored 30 goals in a season, there's no spinning that stat.  

 

Also, check out this link 

 

You will see the majority of those 30 goals scored from rebounds, deflection, and generally hanging around the net.  Net-front presence is more than just being gritty and blocking the goalie's eyes, it's about reading plays and finding open ice.  There's another clip of all the goals he's scored so far this season, and all but one of them were scored near the crease.  I'm not sure where you're seeing him snipe goals in.

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The question about elite is a fair one. I think I started throwing that word around. Players go up and down the scoring boards year to year, so that also makes it tough.

 

I will describe a guy who is elite, though this might be too strict.

 

1. Makes offense happen. When this guy has the puck you notice. He creates space for himself, and does something special with that space regularly. That thing can be sniping, or making sweet plays for chances, or ideally both.

 

2. Produces actual points in large numbers over more than a couple of years. What is the cutoff? This is where it gets tough, but I'm generally talking about a guy who is in the top 30 in points, the higher the better.

 

Obviously, Crosby and McDavid, Malkin, Ovechkin, Patrick Kane. But in the next level, still "elite" Seguin, Backstrom, Pavelski, Panerin, Benn, Tavares. Names like that.

 

Right now our top point-getter is #71 in the league in points, Skinner. (BTW Mitch Marner is #21 in the league in PPG with at least 25 games. Which shows how just one notch higher on the draft board can make a huge difference (not that we give up on Hanifin at all).

 

Anyways, this year, Duchene would not really qualify for elite. His last elite year was 2013-14. But here's the thing. That year he was #14 in points/game and #15 in points. And had 70 points in 71 games. So, while right now we can count on 55 points, he has 70 point upside. I'd like to think Skinner does too, but you have to go back even farther, for Skinner's peak, ironically his rookie year, at 63 points.

 

I would not quite say Duchene is elite. But then, no one has mentioned more than Hall and maybe Johanesen as any elite type forwards traded in the last couple of years. Not sure we will do better.

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And I will repeat myself once again when I say that I wish both we would somehow end up with both Landeskog and Duchene, but I would prefer Duchene more.  He is a #1 Center primarily, but he has often played RW to MacKinnon. 

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28 minutes ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

You will see the majority of those 30 goals scored from rebounds, deflection, and generally hanging around the net.  Net-front presence is more than just being gritty and blocking the goalie's eyes, it's about reading plays and finding open ice.  There's another clip of all the goals he's scored so far this season, and all but one of them were scored near the crease.  I'm not sure where you're seeing him snipe goals in.

 

It was interesting watching those goals. Indeed the first 6 or 7 in a row and about 14 total were Duchene getting within 3 ft of the net. He scored about 6 on odd man rushes or breakaways, about 8 snipes, 1-2 deflections, only one empty netter.

 

Considering he sets up a lot of plays too, that series of clips does make me want him more.

Edited by remkin

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Topshelf did you watch the video?  at least half the goals he was crashing the net, screening or cleaning up the garbage.   And he's an amazing shot, a pure finisher. I'm sold even more after watching that.  I see him and Aho scoring a lot of goals together if we get him.

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Duchene's back hand is sick. 

 

I got to stop fantasizing about getting him, I know he'll end up on pitts or nyr or someone playoff bound.

Edited by danimal-ch1

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56 minutes ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

And I will repeat myself once again when I say that I wish both we would somehow end up with both Landeskog and Duchene, but I would prefer Duchene more.  He is a #1 Center primarily, but he has often played RW to MacKinnon. 

 

We have the ability to get both without ruining our prospect pool. If the Avs are hell bent on loading up on defense, I'd offer Faulk in a one for one exchange with Duchene. I'd even throw in a 3rd if they feel the need to "win" the trade. For Landeskog, I'd offer Fleury, 2017 1st, and one of PDG or McGinn. That gives them their "high end defender or prospect, 1st, and prospect that they've said they want. 

Edited by MinJaBen

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wouldn't that be something.  I really would like to keep Fleury if possible.  He's huge and will be ready next year.   I don't know a lot about Bean, I'd rather give him up since he's still a couple years away and I know nothing about him except he has a strong offensive upside and scouting reports said he is not physical and shys away from board battles.  Fleury could be our big D man that hits hard for years to come.

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Fleury is plus 11 with only 6 penalty minutes in 40something games this year.  that's impressive for a Dman.  well disciplined and the other team doesn't score much when he's on the ice.

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I'm wondering with the recent news releases painting such a favorable view of Fluery are we (fans) being groomed for a move involving Faulk?

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47 minutes ago, MinJaBen said:

 

We have the ability to get both without ruining our prospect pool. If the Avs are hell bent on loading up on defense, I'd offer Faulk in a one for one exchange with Duchene. I'd even throw in a 3rd if they feel the need to "win" the trade. For Landeskog, I'd offer Fleury, 2017 1st, and one of PDG or McGinn. That gives them their "high end defender or prospect, 1st, and prospect that they've said they want. 

I would do Faulk, Roy, 1st, & McGinn or PDG or Nordstrom for both. Maybe a 2nd as well if that is what it takes.  We aren't going to need Roy with Staal, Rask, Duchene, and Lindstrom.

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The below is from Feb 14, mynhltraderumores.com (whoever they are...).  You guys have been talking up a storm re: Duchene all season so remember this: You have to give to get. Sakic is no fool and knows Faulk is not a 'defensive' answer for his team, such as what he may be looking for in a Dman or that a throw in like Murphy will be much help either. So the question is: based on our current upcoming pool of Dmen like Fleury, McKewon, Carrick and Bean it wouldn't be surprising to see a 1 on 1 trade for Duchene involving either Slavin or Pesce...you gotta give to get. Plus will the Canes give up Pesce or Slavin for Duchene who will be a UFA in two more seasons?

 

Terry Frei of the Denver Post: Avs GM Joe Sakic is expected to be with the team today as they play in New Jersey. He’ll be with them in Buffalo on Thursday and Carolina on Friday. Sakic will be watching Hurricanes defensemen Justin Faulk, Jaccob Slavin, Brett Pesce and Ryan Murphy. The Hurricanes also have defensive prospects in Jake Bean, Haydn Fleury and Roland McKeown.

 

Dan Rosen of NHL.com: Gabriel Landeskog is playing in sixth season with the Avs, and Matt Duchene is in the eight. Both are well aware that there names are out there, but realize they can’t control it.

Edited by raleighcaniac

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3 minutes ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

Sounds like Ronnie prefers to see where we are after the 5 game home stand before making any decision. Don't let it slip away Ronnie! These are future players not rentals!

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Francis just let us know he will not make a decision until the end of next week.  So basically if we get ourselves back in the hunt he will most likely make a big move at deadline.  If we don't than he will attempt a big move in the off season.  That's what I got from his espn interview.  Cmon Canes, kick some butt this weekend and next week and give us fans something to be excited about for the first time in 7 years!  I want a blockbuster trade at the deadline and a playoff run!!!

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7 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

So the question is: based on our current upcoming pool of Dmen like Fleury, McKewon and Bean it wouldn't be surprising to see a 1 on 1 trade for Duchene involving either Slavin or Pesce...you gotta give to get.

 

Slavin and Pesce should be off the table. They are far and away the best two defensive players we have. If Colorado insists one one of them, then I'd insist on MacK. 

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No way on Slavin.  For it to be Pesce it better be huge for us but I'd say he's off the table.  Honestly if I were GM I'd say Slavin,Pesce,Fleury are off the table.  I just like that Fleury is huge and will be NHL ready next year.  Faulk, Hannifin, Bean, Mckeown are on.

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