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1 hour ago, JCLA said:

 

You. Don't. Build. Continuous. Winners. Through. Free. Agency.

 

It's called patience.  Don't blame 7-8 years of non playoffs on RF when he's only been here for three.  He's doing a fine job.

Just out of curiosity, what evidence is there that RF is doing a fine job?  I just don't see it, at least not yet.  When I see improvement in wins and losses, then I will agree with you.  Until that happens (if it happens), frankly, we have no clue if Francis is a guru or a clown.  Being a Cleveland fan in every other sport, I know all about bad teams, because we have sure seen them.  And there were Cleveland fans who defended Manny Acta (a HORRIBLE manager) and Ray Farner (former Browns GM who couldn't spot talent if his name was Peyton Manning).  

 

Let me ask you this.  How many years does Francis get as GM without the team making the playoffs?  How many does Peters get?  Five?  Eight?  Ten?

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12 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

 The trade deadline is for contenders to prepare themselves for a run and non-playoff teams to maximize their benefits at the expense of the contenders.  Almost anything can happen for sure, but a true shake-up trade will very likely occur in the off-season, before the FA period.

 

That is mostly true, and the safe bet is always against a big trade at the deadline. That is true this year. But the Avs have been shopping the guys we've been kicking around, and you never know what else could be brewing. Hockey trades have happened at the deadline.

 

From Francis' point of view this thing slipped from, "right there" to "not far" to "tough road" to "long shot" in the blink of an eye. Mostly likely this does create more patience in an already pretty patient guy, and lessen the chances for a big deadline deal. If we were knocking at the door and playing well, it would have been a one more piece thing, but less so now.

 

There is a substantial advantage though to get a guy a couple of months with his new team/system, even if it is just to be ready for next year.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I'm just putting down what I'm hoping for, not necessarily predicting.

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28 minutes ago, Bigfist said:

Just out of curiosity, what evidence is there that RF is doing a fine job?  I just don't see it, at least not yet.  When I see improvement in wins and losses, then I will agree with you.  Until that happens (if it happens), frankly, we have no clue if Francis is a guru or a clown.  Being a Cleveland fan in every other sport, I know all about bad teams, because we have sure seen them.  And there were Cleveland fans who defended Manny Acta (a HORRIBLE manager) and Ray Farner (former Browns GM who couldn't spot talent if his name was Peyton Manning).  

 

Let me ask you this.  How many years does Francis get as GM without the team making the playoffs?  How many does Peters get?  Five?  Eight?  Ten?

 

I have heard GM gets a least 5 years, and then typically 3 coaches. So Peters goes first, but I think he is safe this year.

 

To me Francis has made many slick moves. He has executed small ball very well. I still think we have the right coach, and have improved our farm system tremendously and drafted well. We have defensive depth in guys under 22 that has to be near the top of the league if not the top. We have improved our overall forward depth too. Goalie remains an issue, but I think that he is going to snipe a guy pre expansion draft.

 

So that leaves high end forward. That is the big one. That is hard to come by though. But we NEED at least one, probably two guys. That is the move Francis has not yet made, and about the only one I'm looking for. If not now, then later.

 

But I agree this missing the playoffs is getting really tough tough to take.

Edited by remkin

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1 hour ago, bluedevil58 said:

The fire sale begins.  What a nightmare of a season.  So far, I have not been impressed with RF as GM.

And... the dissing begins. If you hate this team so much BD58--well, you know.

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28 minutes ago, Bigfist said:

Just out of curiosity, what evidence is there that RF is doing a fine job?  I just don't see it, at least not yet.  When I see improvement in wins and losses, then I will agree with you.  Until that happens (if it happens), frankly, we have no clue if Francis is a guru or a clown.  Being a Cleveland fan in every other sport, I know all about bad teams, because we have sure seen them.  And there were Cleveland fans who defended Manny Acta (a HORRIBLE manager) and Ray Farner (former Browns GM who couldn't spot talent if his name was Peyton Manning).  

 

Let me ask you this.  How many years does Francis get as GM without the team making the playoffs?  How many does Peters get?  Five?  Eight?  Ten?

 

I think you have to look at what he's doing.  We're all expecting to win now, when in reality, right now, he's playing the long game.  He's stockpiling prospects and picks that were left devastated by the previous GM.  Our team fell off a cliff this past month with slumps to players that shouldn't be slumping, you can't foresee that.  We were in the playoff hunt until that happened.  If Rask, Skinner, our defense and Ward don't all hit a slump at once, we are probably in the 8-9 seed.  We still need a top line center, which he has to acquire via trade, I surely hope he does.  I don't think he's stupid and I think he knows he needs one.

 

We are currently trying to fix YEARS of horrid drafting and that's going to take more than three years.  But we are a team, that is extremely young, that has been on the cusp of the playoffs when it seemed every team in the Metro couldn't lose.  I think that's enough evidence alone to show that the team is getting better.  We're still realistically 2-4 years away from being a really good team and that's unfortunate for us as fans but it's how it's going to have to be if we want a long, sustained, period of winning.  

 

I think you give Francis his 5 years and then maybe 1 or two extra to see if things are still moving in the right direction.  I also think Peters is the best coach Raleigh has ever had and definitely don't want to see him go but his tenure in Raleigh is going to coincide with Francis'.  Unless Karmanos sells, I don't see either of them going anywhere anytime soon.  Look how long it took him to get rid of Rutherford and he was terrible.

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1 hour ago, JCLA said:

 

RF has spent three years cleaning up the mess JR created which in the sports world is comparable to what katrina did to Louisiana.  

 

If you can't see progress you're just blinded by your pessimist glasses.  You didn't show up ranting and raving until the huge slump our extremely young team has hit in the past month.  

 

Let's not forget our extremely young team was one point out of a playoff spot just a month ago.  If Skinner and Rask don't hit the proverbial wall we are having an entirely different conversation right now.  In our last 13 we are 3-9-1 in which Rask has 0 points and skinner has 4.  

 

Lets also not forget our extremely young team is competing in the toughest division in hockey.

 

Take off the blinders.

JCLA, BD58 knows exactly what he's doing, and I won't call it trolling because I'll be told it's not. Despite the fact that pretty much everyone here has explained what's going on - and that he knows it's true - he posts this crap to get a reaction. Which is... well, that thing.

 

Suggestion: There's an ignore button you can apply to any poster. Works like magic. :)

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I wonder if moving Hainsey means Faulk is safe.

 

I would love to know what Francis really thinks of Faulk. I would also love to know what the other GM's think of him and what has been offered for him.

 

A playoff team with a need for an offensive D man now, and a really nice high end forward prospect to offer, might deal at the deadline. The Oilers come to mind, but maybe there are others? The impetus being the need for this year's playoffs. The thing about the Oilers is that they really don't have pressure to make a deep run. This is a "happy to be there" year, and their building will be full no matter what.

 

I'd be ready to jettison both parts of our low plus minus pairing and get that guy up front.

 

Of course, that seems unlikely, but as with all potential big trades in the Francis era, (and any GM really) the odds favor no deal.

Edited by remkin

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35 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

Almost anything can happen for sure, but a true shake-up trade will very likely occur in the off-season

 

Exactly what I'm thinking.  All though it may appear a small ball move a 2nd rounder for a rental isn't a bad return. Kristo is a move to help the Chex who still have a shot at the playoffs although that window is closing it isn't shut just yet. Kristo is a UFA so you can regard him as a rental for the Chex. 

 

Although Stemp has a year left on his contract I think he might be in play, just a hunch

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Wow JR, thanks for the second round pick!   We just stockpiled more trade ammo.  It better pan out this time, unlike last year where we used none of it for anything.

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22 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

JCLA, BD58 knows exactly what he's doing, and I won't call it trolling because I'll be told it's not. Despite the fact that pretty much everyone here has explained what's going on - and that he knows it's true - he posts this crap to get a reaction. Which is... well, that thing.

 

Suggestion: There's an ignore button you can apply to any poster. Works like magic. :)

 

So quick to label.  This off season I was told I was wrong and look at what the team did last season.  They will only get better and could push for a playoff spot.  Fast forward to now and we are bottom of the East.  I get there should be a rebuild and we are seeing a rebuild but we should also see progress from said rebuild.  I now see threads of how Hanifin should be put on notice.  Which leads me to the conclusion that we are still whiffing on 1st round picks like we did all through this past decade..

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The only GM i thought could possibly give more than a 4th-rounder for Hainsey was JR.  Blammo.  This isn't the big trade the Hurricanes need, but it's more than i dreamed of for someone who i sincerely hoped would not be here next season.  And it provides not only an audition spot, but a rental to help the Checkers in the process.  Like everyone else, i say no way is this enough - he just had to get something for Hainsey, and he got more than i expected.  Waiting for the next hat to drop...

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45 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

So quick to label.  This off season I was told I was wrong and look at what the team did last season.  They will only get better and could push for a playoff spot.  Fast forward to now and we are bottom of the East.  I get there should be a rebuild and we are seeing a rebuild but we should also see progress from said rebuild.  I now see threads of how Hanifin should be put on notice.  Which leads me to the conclusion that we are still whiffing on 1st round picks like we did all through this past decade..

 

To me, Hanifin is just having a typical sophomore year. He has good hockey sense and learning the level. Faulk is currently one of our top 3 defensemen and we need to retain him (Please don't trade him!). You want to trade a defenseman, Murphy is the perfect choice. I defense is looking good and we need to let them grow. What we need is offense! We are on the smaller side and we need some big bodies to get in front of the goalie. Aho is coming into this game, Skinner is leading the team, but I am not impressed with Nordstrom. We also need physicality! The game against Toronto was embarrassing! We were getting banged in the walls, pucks were being stolen, and we did not give good pressure. (IMHO)

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Good for Hainsey.  For all the bashing he took here he never said he was a top 4 Dman. On any team except the Canes he would be a solid third pairing and that is where he likely finds himself in Pit for the remainder of the season or possibly a part time 2nd pairing while their D heals up. More important he actually gets to play on a winner in front of a real hockey crowd instead of a comp'd/discounted ticket crowd filling half the rink, and on a team that has as good a chance to win the Cup as any.  Better than staying on our roster that based on league standings is worse, not better, than last year.

 

I'm sure he is pumped going to Pit waiting for his flight at RDU. Probably slamming a few back at 42nd St Oyster Bar in Terminal 2 as I write. Good luck Ronnie.

Edited by raleighcaniac

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3 hours ago, danimal-ch1 said:

Wow JR, thanks for the second round pick!   We just stockpiled more trade ammo.  It better pan out this time, unlike last year where we used none of it for anything.

Our second round picks the last two years have given us Kouk and Aho. Just saying.

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3 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

The only GM i thought could possibly give more than a 4th-rounder for Hainsey was JR.  Blammo.

Yeah, it was a pretty straight-line conclusion for me too: JR put out a few days ago that the Pens wanted to add D. I figure RF picked up the phone before he finished reading the headline. :coollaugh:

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3 hours ago, JCLA said:

 

I think you have to look at what he's doing.  We're all expecting to win now, when in reality, right now, he's playing the long game.  He's stockpiling prospects and picks that were left devastated by the previous GM.  Our team fell off a cliff this past month with slumps to players that shouldn't be slumping, you can't foresee that.  We were in the playoff hunt until that happened.  If Rask, Skinner, our defense and Ward don't all hit a slump at once, we are probably in the 8-9 seed.  We still need a top line center, which he has to acquire via trade, I surely hope he does.  I don't think he's stupid and I think he knows he needs one.

 

We are currently trying to fix YEARS of horrid drafting and that's going to take more than three years.  But we are a team, that is extremely young, that has been on the cusp of the playoffs when it seemed every team in the Metro couldn't lose.  I think that's enough evidence alone to show that the team is getting better.  We're still realistically 2-4 years away from being a really good team and that's unfortunate for us as fans but it's how it's going to have to be if we want a long, sustained, period of winning.  

 

I think you give Francis his 5 years and then maybe 1 or two extra to see if things are still moving in the right direction.  I also think Peters is the best coach Raleigh has ever had and definitely don't want to see him go but his tenure in Raleigh is going to coincide with Francis'.  Unless Karmanos sells, I don't see either of them going anywhere anytime soon.  Look how long it took him to get rid of Rutherford and he was terrible.

Peters the best coach Raleigh has seen??  Really?  Better than Maurice?  Better than Laviolette? Based on what, may I ask?    Better than a Stanley Cup winning coach and a guy who got us to the finals once, and made the playoffs multiple other times?  Right now, the evidence is he (Peters) is no better than Mueller.  I know, but this and but that.  GM's and coaches are judged by wins and losses and championships.  Really nothing else matters in any professional sport.  Otherwise, guys like Marc Crawford and Ron Wilson would still have jobs.  

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26 minutes ago, Bigfist said:

Peters the best coach Raleigh has seen??  Really?  Better than Maurice?  Better than Laviolette? Based on what, may I ask?    Better than a Stanley Cup winning coach and a guy who got us to the finals once, and made the playoffs multiple other times?  Right now, the evidence is he (Peters) is no better than Mueller.  I know, but this and but that.  GM's and coaches are judged by wins and losses and championships.  Really nothing else matters in any professional sport.  Otherwise, guys like Marc Crawford and Ron Wilson would still have jobs.  

 

Maurice sucked. Laviolette won us a cup yes, but had one playoff season.  Peters so far hasn't made a playoff but he's been coaching during a rebuild.  Hard to make the playoffs during a rebuild.

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2 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Good for Hainsey.  For all the bashing he took here he never said he was a top 4 Dman. On any team except the Canes he would be a solid third pairing and that is where he likely finds himself in Pit for the remainder of the season or possibly a part time 2nd pairing while their D heals up. More important he actually gets to play on a winner in front of a real hockey crowd instead of a comp'd/discounted ticket crowd filling half the rink, and on a team that has as good a chance to win the Cup as any.  Better than staying on our roster that based on league standings is worse, not better, than last year.

 

I'm sure he is pumped going to Pit waiting for his flight at RDU. Probably slamming a few back at 42nd St Oyster Bar in Terminal 2 as I write. Good luck Ronnie.

Of course, if we made the playoffs once every five years or so, the arena might be more than half full.

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Lisa Dillman of NHL.com: With the emergence of several young defenseman this season, Hurricanes GM Ron Francis might start getting calls on 24-year old Justin Faulk.

 

I know it's just speculation, but she speculated about Hainsey to Pittsburgh yesterday so....

 

Just realized we have 3 second round picks this year. The NYR and Pittsburgh will late rounders, but maybe throw one or both low end ones into a trade.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Lisa Dillman of NHL.com: With the emergence of several young defenseman this season, Hurricanes GM Ron Francis might start getting calls on 24-year old Justin Faulk.

 

I know it's just speculation, but she speculated about Hainsey to Pittsburgh yesterday so....

 

Just realized we have 3 second round picks this year. The NYR and Pittsburgh will late rounders, but maybe throw one or both low end ones into a trade.

 

I would be very surprised if we traded Faulk now. I admit there is and has been a lot of speculation about Faulk but I don't see it. He wouldn't go for a rental price, I'm sure of that. If someone wants him bad enough I suppose it could happen but they would have to overpay. 

 

We don't have anyone in the system that can replace him yet.

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3 hours ago, JCLA said:

 

Maurice sucked. Laviolette won us a cup yes, but had one playoff season.  Peters so far hasn't made a playoff but he's been coaching during a rebuild.  Hard to make the playoffs during a rebuild.

I still am unclear as to your reasoning why Peters is the best coach that has been in Raleigh, but I think an equally good argument could be made, based on win/loss record, that he has been the worst.

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4 minutes ago, Bigfist said:

I still am unclear as to your reasoning why Peters is the best coach that has been in Raleigh, but I think an equally good argument could be made, based on win/loss record, that he has been the worst.

 He's wrong.  Lavi was the best coach because he brought in a cup.  In each round he told the players to make a run at the goalie to get into their heads.   Also, the NJD series, where we shot.low for the first 30 minutes then lit Brodeur up.  So so smart.

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