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Trade rumors and talk

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43 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

Respectfully, this is so far from the truth, and is plus-minus blindness, IMO.  Faulk generates more shots than any player on the team, except Skinner.  And shots are only counted if they are on goal, right.  Everybody here talks about lack of finish, no net from presence as main reasons for our lack of scoring.  Who is the guying getting rubber on the net to give somebody the opportunity.....to you guessed it, finish?

 

I do agree with your premise for a trade. 

 

It's a fair point. Faulk is generating more chances and perhaps our lack of forward skill is hiding his true impact.

I'll give you another one. Faulk scores a lot of his points on the PP, which are not counted into +/- but do count in wins.

 

Personally, I am also eyeballing Faulk's D zone coverage and bad pinches, not just relying on +/-.  I think his plus/minus just supports what the eye sees in the D zone. Plus, the eye sees a lot of good in the O zone, so those minuses are coming from somewhere.

 

I think we mainly just differ on plus minus. It would seem that you feel is it entirely useless whereas I think it is mostly useless. I do think that if a guy is on the extreme of his team (good or bad), and finds himself there year after year, there is probably something to it. Faulk is at an extreme. He is -67 the past 4 years on 4 teams that the median player would be about -20 on. He has been in the bottom 3 on the team each of the last 3 years and dead last this year.

 

I would offer up Jordan Staal as a guy on the other end of the spectrum. Here's a guy who doesn't score much himself, faces the best opposition lines, yet is near the top of the team in plus minus year after year. Most guys are in the middle, and there is just too many variables to count it as much for them. So I try to avoid considering +/- except at the extremes.

 

All of that said, I could be well underestimating the overall effect of Justin offensively. It could be that if we had more guys who could ultimately convert the chances Faulk creates it would push his plus/minus up. It just has a long way to go is all I would say.

 

But even if Justin is more effective on the total game than I think, I'd still make the trade because this team needs that finish and I just don't see how else to get it.

 

Edited by remkin

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9 hours ago, remkin said:

....I would offer up Jordan Staal as a guy on the other end of the spectrum. Here's a guy who doesn't score much himself, faces the best opposition lines, yet is near the top of the team in plus minus year after year. Most guys are in the middle, and there is just too many variables to count it as much for them. So I try to avoid considering +/- except at the extremes....

How to win in sports:  Score more than the other guys do.

 

Maybe he doesn't meet everyone's wish for more offense, but the other guys aren't having fun, too.  Works for me.

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A couple more things about Faulk.

 

- Any team that trades for him will have to protect him in the expansion draft.  We are one of the few teams that does not have tough decisions to make in this regard.  So if a trade were to happen prior to that event, our partner would likely trade us two players that we must protect. 

 

- What we would ask for in a trade for Faulk is something most teams in the playoff hunt would not be willing to give us, as it would seriously undermine their chemistry and probably hurt not help their chances at a playoff run.

 

Bottom line -  If we are looking to trade Faulk (I hope not because I like the top 4 we ran out there last time), I will be very surprised if it happens before the expansion draft and SHOCKED if it happens before the offseason.  

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1 hour ago, coastal_caniac said:

Some of y'all need to chill on this trade thing - your tight as *edit*'s hatband.  You do know high blood ;pressure isn't good for you right?

 

 

Speculating on trades is fun... not stressful in the least.  Hate to say it but i think you're the one getting uptight about it.  Peace.

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2 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Some of y'all need to chill on this trade thing - your tight as *edit*'s hatband.  You do know high blood ;pressure isn't good for you right?

I'm with coastal. Scenario roulette is a waste. But to each his own . Hockey is for EVeryone. Right?

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2 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Some of y'all need to chill on this trade thing - your tight as *edit*'s hatband.  You do know high blood ;pressure isn't good for you right?

Well if we were in the playoffs there might be something else to talk about. Until that happens there will always be speculation on how to get better. 

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32 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

Speculating on trades is fun... not stressful in the least.  Hate to say it but i think you're the one getting uptight about it.  Peace.

 

10 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Well if we were in the playoffs there might be something else to talk about. Until that happens there will always be speculation on how to get better. 

 

You mean speculating on ONE trade. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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All this trade talk will have a lot more validity after the season is over d the draft approaches.  Canes aren't making a "buy" move now. Good players on good teams aren't available now.  Good players on "sell" teams have unrealistic prices now because...why not if you are Joe Sakic?  

 

The only trades we will be discussing is the possible move of a depth Canes guy as a sell.  If that happens, I imagine RF will be looking for picks beyond this summer's draft.

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32 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

 

You mean speculating on ONE trade. 

No, there has been talk about Hanifin, Murphy, Ryan and the Yute farm. Yes Faulk has gotten most of the discussion. Perhaps the Mods can have a special Trade Faulk page so that you don't have to read about it or perhaps just don't  read the Trade Rumors and Talk thread.:shakeshead:

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27 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Perhaps the Mods can have a special Trade Faulk page so that you don't have to read about it or perhaps just don't  read the Trade Rumors and Talk thread.:shakeshead:

 

Not gonna happen.  I'll read and make observations freely. :D 

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15 hours ago, remkin said:

It has to happen. If not now, then offseason, but it has to happen.

I'll demur just a bit and say that, given the picks we've amassed, we could throw a whole bunch of them at the Avs (or someone else) along with a McKeown, Murphy (yes, I know CC, he has negative trade value :) ) and a keeper without including Faulk (who again, at least in the Avs case, they probably don't want anyway). 

 

Some will call this "mortgaging the future" but sorry--no. We could give up half our picks this year and still have a bevy, and when you think about how quickly RF has amassed not only these picks but the "next wave" of players already in the system, I don't see it as mortgaging anything at all. It's spending "money" you've "saved" specifically for this moment.

 

All of this being said, however we achieve it, I don't want Faulk taking up a roster spot on our D-corps anymore. We have all the data needed to know his D style is not compatible with our system. I want him either on a wing (where he could easily shift to the point for the PP)--or, if he's gonna continue being a D man, on some other team.

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14 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

All of this being said, however we achieve it, I don't want Faulk taking up a roster spot on our D-corps anymore. We have all the data needed to know his D style is not compatible with our system. I want him either on a wing (where he could easily shift to the point for the PP)--or, if he's gonna continue being a D man, on some other team.

 

 

Obviously the Canes have a history of trying a defenseman on the wing, but has Peters ever done that?  An intriguing notion because that would pretty much solve my complaints about Faulk.

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34 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Obviously the Canes have a history of trying a defenseman on the wing, but has Peters ever done that?  An intriguing notion because that would pretty much solve my complaints about Faulk.

david tanabe thinks it may not be a good idea...

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37 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

Obviously the Canes have a history of trying a defenseman on the wing, but has Peters ever done that?  An intriguing notion because that would pretty much solve my complaints about Faulk.

BP tried it with Murphy for a few games early in his tenure. The only things what will allow Murphy to stick in this league are about 30 more pounds and the tenacity to use every one of them.

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8 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

BP tried it with Murphy for a few games early in his tenure. The only things what will allow Murphy to stick in this league are about 30 more pounds and the tenacity to use every one of them.

And switch from panties to a jock.

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Joe Nieuwendyk (carolina) scounting Stars/Bruins game. He won't be lonely plenty of scouts in attendance.

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Anyone with a longer memory can feel free to correct me here, but in my recollection, when Faulk first came up, he played decent defense. He really seemed to stick with a guy, rub him into the boards and take the puck a lot. Not only me, but our boy Tripp talks about stretches where Faulk has played solid defense last year, and the last few games have seemed better to me. I keep thinking maybe he's got some better defense he can access.

 

But for me, I just don't know that Francis can put together a good enough package to get us help for next year without him in it. LIke Top, I'm more than willing to give a bunch of second, third round picks, and maybe avoid it, but if lots of smart hockey fans on this site think Faulk has serious value on the market, then to me that is the key. It really comes down to selling high to get the right guy. We have some really nice players, but we probably need two forwards as good as anyone we have to be the team Francis wants to build. If he has a way to get at least one of them and not move Faulk (or Hanifin), it would be great.

 

As to a deadline deal, the history is in favor of no big trade. That is the safe bet. Mostly teams are looking to buy or sell complimentary pieces, and I agree Sakic can wait.

 

My main outside hope would be a team that thinks they are a RHD Offensive Dman from a deep run and has a primo offensive stud prospect available. Not likely.

 

I guess we get to watch Francis pick up some late round picks for McClement and Stahlberg, and .....wait.....again......for the big move. I guess with tons of cap space and the expansion draft, maybe something good will pop up, just....so.....tired of waiting.

Edited by remkin

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I really do not understand a Faulk trade of any kind- yes we have holes in the offense but I'm not understanding why we would create another one on defense ??‍♀️ You have to build a complete team- from the goalie out. In doing so you commit to some core players and build around them-if not you are in a constant rebuild.

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12 minutes ago, Pkling40 said:

I really do not understand a Faulk trade of any kind- yes we have holes in the offense but I'm not understanding why we would create another one on defense ??‍♀️ You have to build a complete team- from the goalie out. In doing so you commit to some core players and build around them-if not you are in a constant rebuild.

I can only speak for myself, but the the holes on offense are at the very top (the hardest by far to fill).  The holes on defense would be in the middle (3-4) since Pesce/Slavin are strong. Personally I think Hanifin will be #3 next year. If so, even w/o Faulk, the defensive holes would start at #4. But we have lots of highly ranked prospects ready to step up and fill the holes on D.

 

But where does our high end scoring come from? Arguably we have holes in top forward and second top forward. Those are massive holes that have lead to this team being way on the wrong end of "goals for" for years now.

 

If Faulk has the trade value to bring a forward capable of instantly becoming our top scoring forward, we can fill the hole on D with Fleury and McKeown and still have Bean, the true magic Bean, in the system.

 

Some, myself included, think Faulk's defensive issues play in as well, especially if his trade value is high.

Edited by remkin

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Details of the Kings/Lightning Trade and Coyotes/Wild Trade.

Tampa Bay trades to Los Angeles for Peter Budaj, defenseman prospect Erik Cernak and a seventh-round pick in 2017 and a conditional pick in this year's draft.

 

The Minnesota Wild acquired center Martin Hanzal from the Arizona Coyotes for a first-round pick in the 2017 NHL Draft, a second-round pick in 2018 and a conditional pick in 2019. Minnesota will also receive center Ryan White and a fourth-round pick in 2017.

Edited by hopper915

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1 hour ago, hopper915 said:

Details of the Kings/Lightning Trade and Coyotes/Wild Trade.

Tampa Bay trades to Los Angeles for Peter Budaj, defenseman prospect Erik Cernak and a seventh-round pick in 2017 and a conditional pick in this year's draft.

 

The Minnesota Wild acquired center Martin Hanzal from the Arizona Coyotes for a first-round pick in the 2017 NHL Draft, a second-round pick in 2018 and a conditional pick in 2019. Minnesota will also receive center Ryan White and a fourth-round pick in 2017.

I liked Hanzal as a under the radar move.  Had no idea his worth was this high.  

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41 minutes ago, RonnieFranchise said:

With the return on some of these trades I would be very active as a seller.

 

 

Yea could we pawn McClement for a 3rd?  Maybe a 2nd?  Get a 1st for Ryan?

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