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11 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

I like your sarcasm and I also want to point out that the same kind of attitude was exhibited towards me last off season when I told every one how much this team lacked in talent when compared to our division.  Just throwing that out there as a fresh reminder.

 

If you would like a prize for that I would suggest a biscuit.  U likey biscuits?  BTW it's all intended in good fun BD. ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac
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Quote

Just throwing that out there as a fresh reminder.

Because continually saying "I told you so" and "we suck" is soooo much more satisfying than optimism, acknowledging the long-term plan, and getting over the fact that it's going to take time... 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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45 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

^This just in, Bill Peters is lost and can't find the locker room.  This is not good.  There is a stick puck match tonight and we need somebody yelling "make a *edit* save".  I hope he finds the locker room.

 

This is one of the funnier things I have read in a long while.  We need more of the funny.  Cause thinking too much about the money and time we have poured into this team is way too depressing... and its that time of year again, like a longass time away from next October when we are back tied for first place again for 1 day.

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No comments on the 800lb gorilla in the room? Where is PK? None of us can answer these questions with certainty but:

1. How many games has he actually attended this year? I know he did not normally attend very many when he was a CEO but he is now after all retired so how many?

2. Just how solvent is he after he had to loot from his kids trust fund to provide operating capital for the team only to get sued by his kids?

3. To what extent does league revenue sharing keep this team afloat? 50%? More? Less?

4. Does he even input anymore on what RF decides/does?

5. Hasn't been interviewed once in three years when he last gave a rambling incoherent interview that left Forslund visibly uncomfortable.

6. Does he still have all his marbles?

 

RF is dead in the water as is BP if PK isn't willing to open the purse to the tune of around an extra 12m per season to sign two top end players this summer. For me if the Canes have any hope of improving next season they must land at least one holy-crap-look-who-we-got-free agent and ideally two. Drafting alone won't get it done. If RF could possibly sign one real deal UFA then trade some assets for another real deal player that would be great.  The only untouchables for me are Slavin and Aho. Everyone else; draft picks and rostered players are fair game.  It will cost talent to trade for talent. Everyone can debate what positions are most critical but for me, priority one is a top scoring forward via UFA or trade - a center ideally - but a top scoring winger who plays in the corners and top of the paint is fine too. I would then find two players who are more than willing to drop the mitts if one of our skill guys gets worked over.  Ideally they would be 3rd and 4th line players who can chip in 7+ goals a year along with 10+ assists but most important bring toughness to a weak team.

 

Question is, is PK wealthy enough or interested enough at this point in his life to do what it takes ($$$$) to win consistently and pose a threat to any team we play? 

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2 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

No comments on the 800lb gorilla in the room? Where is PK? None of us can answer these questions with certainty but:

1. How many games has he actually attended this year? I know he did not normally attend very many when he was a CEO but he is now after all retired so how many?

2. Just how solvent is he after he had to loot from his kids trust fund to provide operating capital for the team only to get sued by his kids?

3. To what extent does league revenue sharing keep this team afloat? 50%? More? Less?

4. Does he even input anymore on what RF decides/does?

5. Hasn't been interviewed once in three years when he last gave a rambling incoherent interview that left Forslund visibly uncomfortable.

6. Does he still have all his marbles?

 

RF is dead in the water as is BP if PK isn't willing to open the purse to the tune of around an extra 12m per season to sign two top end players this summer. For me if the Canes have any hope of improving next season they must land at least one holy-crap-look-who-we-got-free agent and ideally two. Drafting alone won't get it done. If RF could possibly sign one real deal UFA then trade some assets for another real deal player that would be great.  The only untouchables for me are Slavin and Aho. Everyone else; draft picks and rostered players are fair game.  It will cost talent to trade for talent. Everyone can debate what positions are most critical but for me, priority one is a top scoring forward via UFA or trade - a center ideally - but a top scoring winger who plays in the corners and top of the paint is fine too. I would then find two players who are more than willing to drop the mitts if one of our skill guys gets worked over.  Ideally they would be 3rd and 4th line players who can chip in 7+ goals a year along with 10+ assists but most important bring toughness to a weak team.

 

Question is, is PK wealthy enough or interested enough at this point in his life to do what it takes ($$$$) to win consistently and pose a threat to any team we play? 

I'll keep it civil if you do, RC.

 

Karmanos is not retired. He co-founded Maddog Technologies after being wrongly terminated by Compuware, according to court proceedings (a finding upheld on appeal--twice, I believe), for which he was awarded $16.5 million.

 

Late last year Maddog announced it was making an investment in downtown Pontiac by moving three of its startup companies to a building there, an urban revitalization strategy undertaken in downtown Detroit by Compuware during Karmano's tenure, to great effect.

 

PK's 2013 net worth was $1 billion. People with $1 billion tend to continually increase their holdings (and thereby their net worth), unless they are exceedingly clueless money managers (or more accurately, unless the money managers they hire are). And considering that Karmanos and his partners in Compuware seeded an eventually multimillion-dollar company with their tax returns, I doubt Karmanos fits that description.

 

He loves hockey and was recently named to the HHOF. Is he willing to sully that hard-earned achievement by perpetuating his franchise's mediocrity one minute longer than necessary? On top of which, if he is sincerely interested in selling the team outright--which is an open question--it behooves him to build its value for the long haul. The facts that (1) Hurricanes Holdings operates PNC (2) owns the Everblades arena as well, and (3) PK wants to retain operational control of the Canes even if he sells, are all further indications to me that he is both quite solvent indeed, and quite committed to this organization.

 

You might also want to look at the listing of Hurricanes Holdings minority partners. They include longtime associates who moved here from Detroit--and one Ron Francis.

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Then there are no excuses if he doesn't pony up about 12m this off-season for Francis to get a couple of A lister's instead of B/C talent that elevates this team in such an incremental way. His notion however of selling the Canes but retaining operational control is delusional in a capitalist economy. When you sell you hand over the keys as in any sell scenario.   I maintain there is something 'off' about this guy. We will see in July. And to confirm, I have never been the one to initiate non-civil proceedings between you and I.

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15 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

Then there are no excuses if he doesn't pony up about 12m this off-season for Francis to get a couple of A lister's instead of B/C talent that elevates this team in such an incremental way. His notion however of selling the Canes but retaining operational control is delusional in a capitalist economy. When you sell you hand over the keys as in any sell scenario.   I maintain there is something 'off' about this guy. We will see in July. And to confirm, I have never been the one to initiate non-civil proceedings between you and I.

 

I think he backed off on that earlier this season. The premise it not without a history, I think the Islander owner did the same thing. It is difficult to give up something you have built. In the end I doubt that business model would work but I doubt expecting a open checkbook for RF to make deals is realistic either.

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21 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

I like your sarcasm and I also want to point out that the same kind of attitude was exhibited towards me last off season when I told every one how much this team lacked in talent when compared to our division.  Just throwing that out there as a fresh reminder.

 

The victim card.  Not again.

 

Yes, you were highly vocal about how terrible everything was.  It's just hard for me to be that miserable in the summer before the first puck drops.  I think most of us thought this was a team that could vie for the last wildcard spot.  They did just that for about half the season and then the wheels fell off the wagon and nobody seemed interested in putting them back on. 

 

How's the view from that high horse?

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22 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

I like your sarcasm and I also want to point out that the same kind of attitude was exhibited towards me last off season when I told every one how much this team lacked in talent when compared to our division.  Just throwing that out there as a fresh reminder.

As the saying goes "even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile". I don't know about anyone else, bd, but for myself, personally, it's very hard for me to keep wallowing around in misery. It gets extremely agitating to  appear to continually celebrate the  miserable state this team has lingered in for the past 9 or so years, but for some reason, some persist. Are those of us that don't being just as unrealistic as those that continue on, maybe, but what I see are those on the optimistic side do entertain the down side, however it appears that your view never waivers. That does not mean that I personally don't acknowledge the short comings this team has, I just choose to look on the brighter side of things. Now, I know that the advise from my "mentors" is to "hit the ignore button", but I suppose that I'm just a glutton for punishment, and I still respect everyone's opinion, and will read EVERYTHING. Oh, and have a Great Day, the Canes won last night!!

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On 3/9/2017 at 11:11 AM, top-shelf-1 said:

Fixed it for ya. :lol:

On 3/9/2017 at 9:23 AM, danimal-ch1 said:

Kids should be prepared to hear  bad words, loud angry rants, and drunk adults at hockey games whenever the Rags and Flyers are in town.

Fixed it for ya. :lol:

 

You have to add the Slugs in there as well.

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22 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

 

 

Question is, is PK wealthy enough or interested enough at this point in his life to do what it takes ($$$$) to win consistently and pose a threat to any team we play? 

Forbes estimates that the Hurricanes lost a league-high $15 million last season. Petty cash for a billionaire.

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On 3/10/2017 at 9:05 AM, raleighcaniac said:

Then there are no excuses if he doesn't pony up about 12m this off-season for Francis to get a couple of A lister's instead of B/C talent that elevates this team in such an incremental way. His notion however of selling the Canes but retaining operational control is delusional in a capitalist economy. When you sell you hand over the keys as in any sell scenario.   I maintain there is something 'off' about this guy. We will see in July. And to confirm, I have never been the one to initiate non-civil proceedings between you and I.

I agree, this is the off-season we've all been waiting for. I think the addition of, at minimum, (a) two top-six forwards or (b) one top-sixer and a bonafide #1 keeper is necessary to prove the org (read: PK) is committed to the plan RF has spelled out from Jump Street. As to the bolded text, I disagree. Plenty of owners want to rid themselves of direct financial responsibility and to become CEOs who serve at the pleasure of a board of directors. Indeed, it's what PK did in the end with Compuware, and it's his status now at Maddog. While I agree with you that it is not the typical deal, neither is it uncommon.

 

An argument can even be made that an ownership group, particularly one with little or no sports ownership background, would prefer to have a guy running things who knows hockey intimately and has been around the NHL block. I could totally see PK's (or a host of other wealthy hockey lovers') "retirement plan" being to draw a salary as an NHL CEO for hire while letting go of whatever business interests "paid the bills" during their "working" years. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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4 hours ago, super_dave_1 said:

 

The victim card.  Not again.

 

Yes, you were highly vocal about how terrible everything was.  It's just hard for me to be that miserable in the summer before the first puck drops.  I think most of us thought this was a team that could vie for the last wildcard spot.  They did just that for about half the season and then the wheels fell off the wagon and nobody seemed interested in putting them back on. 

 

How's the view from that high horse?

 

I'm the victim here!

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Lets keep the discussion civil please.   Calling out members in the public forum won't accomplish anything

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Agreed with the comment above about this being the offseason to make the deals.  We have positioned ourselved nicely. The young defense is coming along nicely.  We have lots of prospects, picks and expansion slots.  I am expecting a busy off-season for us and I believe we will look a little different up front (and in net) come October.

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To reiterate I agree with you ironman, this is the year. The only thing is that our defensive assets have not yet fully matured. That's about the only thing. Everything else lines up for at least one big splash this offseason. I think the team needs it. I think the fan base needs it. But the good parts of this season, games like the last one show that this league-youngest team, has a nice base of talent with a lot of potential talent developing out of sight too, in some ways might be one top forward away.

 

Assuming we don't trade any of our top 7, then a top guy would provide more points than the number 9 guy basically, by pushing the 9 guy down or out. Right now, that is a about a 26 point, 7 goal guy. If this guy can score 27 goals, that would be 20 more goals, and if he could set up 10 more primarily that would be 30 goals. Pretty close to what we need. BUT Aho is already on a higher pace than his numbers (slow goal scoring early), and Lindholm has found a new level. Personally I think TT has another level, and I also think that McGinn does too, this was really his first "full" year.

 

If we get that guy we will be deep in terms of scoring forwards. Possibly still a bit weak at the top, but remember Aho, and others could grow into that. If I'm right about McGinn, just adding one top guy would make us deep 1-9 up front, and have a good, learning to be great defense.

 

Personally I think this is the time for Francis to target THE guy that is potentially available. Overpay but don't move the core. No Slavin/Pesce/Hanifin. No top 7 forwards (unless more than one forward comes back). Move picks, D prospects, certain Forward prospects (not Gauthier), and probably Faulk (I know, I know, but to get a big name we have to move a big name). Overpay if you have to.

 

This one time, it is more important to get the best guy, than the best value.

 

If we head into the season without this move? Blah. If the team starts in it's typically slow fashion, after making no moves? You'll be able to clearly make out what the players are saying on the ice, it will be that empty.

Edited by remkin

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36 minutes ago, remkin said:

Personally I think TT has another level, and I also think that McGinn does too, this was really his first "full" year.

I'll add PDG to that list, and all three provide different games. I could actually see this being our third line going forward.

 

38 minutes ago, remkin said:

Personally I think this is the time for Francis to target THE guy that is potentially available. Overpay but don't move the core. No Slavin/Pesce/Hanifin. No top 7 forwards (unless more than one forward comes back). Move picks, D prospects, certain Forward prospects (not Gauthier), and probably Faulk (I know, I know, but to get a big name we have to move a big name). Overpay if you have to.

I have to wonder about Jordan. Ideally he's our #2 C, but he's played a bunch smaller than we need him to all year, despite being injury free and having the chance to establish himself as a leader. Is he just unhappy here? Who knows? But if moving him can help us bring back a young top-three forward and #1 keeper, (assuming Jordan agrees, of course) I can see Rask being an equally or more-effective #2 C, with better speed, scoring, and playmaking.

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15 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I have to wonder about Jordan. Ideally he's our #2 C, but he's played a bunch smaller than we need him to all year, despite being injury free and having the chance to establish himself as a leader. Is he just unhappy here? Who knows? But if moving him can help us bring back a young top-three forward and #1 keeper, (assuming Jordan agrees, of course) I can see Rask being an equally or more-effective #2 C, with better speed, scoring, and playmaking.

 

 

This.  Someone (can't remember who) recently said something about Jordan perhaps requesting a trade this offseason - wouldn't surprise me in the least.  And if Francis can sweeten the deal enough to turn Jordan into a legit 1C so we can move Rask to 2C, that's already an improvement i think.  We still need more, obviously, but that wouldn't be a bad start.

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I'll add PDG to that list, and all three provide different games. I could actually see this being our third line going forward.

 

I have to wonder about Jordan. Ideally he's our #2 C, but he's played a bunch smaller than we need him to all year, despite being injury free and having the chance to establish himself as a leader. Is he just unhappy here? Who knows? But if moving him can help us bring back a young top-three forward and #1 keeper, (assuming Jordan agrees, of course) I can see Rask being an equally or more-effective #2 C, with better speed, scoring, and playmaking.

Funny, I thought about both of those guys as I posted. I agree on PDG. Down in Charlotte one of his coaches commented on some creative and elite moves to the goal, only some of which had come out in games. And he had a run of points last year. I like what he brings even without points, but both he and McGinn could be guys who put up decent points if they can create a little more consistently at the NHL level. What I like is we have both, and even if one really hit's his full potential that would be good.

 

J is a tough one. He is not a big point producer consistently, but has been a big point producer in the past over pretty good stretches. But even so, he makes his wingers better, and is so good in the shut down role that I hate to see him go, even if he brings a nice forward back. I don't know how happy he is here. That could be an issue. Francis wants guys who want to be here.

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20 minutes ago, remkin said:

....J is a tough one. He is not a big point producer consistently, but has been a big point producer in the past over pretty good stretches. But even so, he makes his wingers better, and is so good in the shut down role that I hate to see him go, even if he brings a nice forward back. I don't know how happy he is here. That could be an issue. Francis wants guys who want to be here.

Thank you for tempering the suggestions to move Jordan.  IMO that is a move RF would regret.  We really need to find out if some of those prospects have game that translate into NHL.  Tough to do with expansion and having to play Murphy just to have an asset exposed for the draft.

 

I'm not as optimistic about PDG and McGinn.  IMO they're overslotted and marginal.  We need better depth than what McClement and Nordy provide. Cap space can add lots of value in the bottom 6 beyond what is in place.

 

Of course the top priorities of 1C, Goalie and Captain, as everyone's pointed out, have to be addressed first.

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Only way RF doesn't regret it is if J was one of the guys contributing to the phone it in mentality we saw a few short weeks ago.

 

Big *edit* emphasis on the if so folks don't try to run with me saying he "was".

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57 minutes ago, Manwolf said:

Thank you for tempering the suggestions to move Jordan.  IMO that is a move RF would regret.  We really need to find out if some of those prospects have game that translate into NHL.  Tough to do with expansion and having to play Murphy just to have an asset exposed for the draft.

 

I'm not as optimistic about PDG and McGinn.  IMO they're overslotted and marginal.  We need better depth than what McClement and Nordy provide. Cap space can add lots of value in the bottom 6 beyond what is in place.

 

Of course the top priorities of 1C, Goalie and Captain, as everyone's pointed out, have to be addressed first.

I tend to think along these lines too.  It's tough to as$ess what Jordan brings as much of it isn't readily measurable.  As a tangential example, look at our PK since we traded Stalberg and Hainsey.  Seems like our PK has been downright ordinary lately, and I wonder how much of that is due to the absence of those 2 guys, especially Stalberg up top?  

 

And for me the verdict is still out on PDG and McGinn when it comes to my ideal Canes lineup.  The possibility is there for one or both, but I haven't seen enough yet to count on them at this point.  They could very well develop into solid contributors, but I'm sure not writing either in in ink just yet. 

 

edit:had to edit the word "as$ess" in order to keep it from being censored, lol

Edited by LakeLivin

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