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30 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

PDG, McGinn, and Ryan need to be no higher than the 4th line with a chance to move up during injury or rest.  

 

 

I'd even try to package Ryan in a deal and then take a shot at Sam Gagner currently a UFA with Columbus. He should be able to be had fairly cheap. He's younger than Ryan at 27,weighs more at 200+ , scored 40+ points seven times in the NHL. 

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

 

 

And for me the verdict is still out on PDG and McGinn when it comes to my ideal Canes lineup.  The possibility is there for one or both, but I haven't seen enough yet to count on them at this point.  They could very well develop into solid contributors, but I'm sure not writing either in in ink just yet. 

 

 

No more than 4th line for me. All depends on what Ronnie can do in the off season.

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5 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

This.  Someone (can't remember who) recently said something about Jordan perhaps requesting a trade this offseason - wouldn't surprise me in the least.  And if Francis can sweeten the deal enough to turn Jordan into a legit 1C so we can move Rask to 2C, that's already an improvement i think.  We still need more, obviously, but that wouldn't be a bad start.

Twas I, SuckaPunchd. And I agree with your statements good sir.

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If we get one top forward, then the 9 slot would stay open for McGinn or PDG or someone else (dare I say Gauthier?, or Zykov?). If we get two guys, then that would likely push them down or out.

 

The thing about McGinn is that he hits people, hard. He has skill, but can he bring it to top 3rd line level consistently? If so, I like his grit. If not, move that grit to the 4th line.

Edited by remkin

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6 hours ago, legend-1 said:

Only way RF doesn't regret it is if J was one of the guys contributing to the phone it in mentality we saw a few short weeks ago.

 

Big *edit* emphasis on the if so folks don't try to run with me saying he "was".

ok, what do you think?  Care to offer an opinion?  Was he?  We both watch the guy/team.

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Who leads the team in even strength points (if you watched from home you heard Forslund provide the answer tonight).  By order of points going into tonight's game:

a. Skinner

b. Aho

c. Rask

d. Staal

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There's a Sucka born every minute.  There are many problems with the PP.  

 

Just something to consider before anyone tries running him out of town.  Btw, there is only one forward with > 2 games played on the team that is a plus player.  Let the +/- means zip crowd roar.  Right....

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18 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

I'd even try to package Ryan in a deal and then take a shot at Sam Gagner currently a UFA with Columbus. He should be able to be had fairly cheap. He's younger than Ryan at 27,weighs more at 200+ , scored 40+ points seven times in the NHL. 

I get the sentiment, but he's not what you want in a fourth-line center. You want Jay McClement, and at four years younger than McC, and with McC a UFA, I'm thinking Ryan is next cowboy up for that slot.  

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14 hours ago, Manwolf said:

ok, what do you think?  Care to offer an opinion?  Was he?  We both watch the guy/team.

My opinion is he's apart of a veteran group of players who all seem to have their finger on their nose saying "not it" in terms of being the Captain which leads to teams quitting on games. Is he THE problem, I still have no idea as I said before. Just saying if RF did a Primeau for Roddy swap those types of deals don't always sink the ship.

 

Nor am I advocating for his trade which is what I think you're upset about, I think all of this came up because Sucka said he wouldn't be surprised if he requested a trade. That's neither one of us wanting him gone thats us not being surprised if J Staal would wanna jump ship.

 

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1 hour ago, Manwolf said:

There's a Sucka born every minute.  There are many problems with the PP.  

 

Just something to consider before anyone tries running him out of town.  Btw, there is only one forward with > 2 games played on the team that is a plus player.  Let the +/- means zip crowd roar.  Right....

I don't think anybody wants to run him out of town. I just think that if we can get a legit 1C, it gets very hard to keep him, with Rask being the better producer, and locked in for the next five years, at a lot less money. Now, if we can get the 1C without involving Jordan, and J is okay with third-line minutes and slotting in on special teams, fan-freakin'-tastic.

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2 hours ago, legend-1 said:

My opinion is he's apart of a veteran group of players who all seem to have their finger on their nose saying "not it" in terms of being the Captain which leads to teams quitting on games. Is he THE problem, I still have no idea as I said before. Just saying if RF did a Primeau for Roddy swap those types of deals don't always sink the ship.

 

Nor am I advocating for his trade which is what I think you're upset about, I think all of this came up because Sucka said he wouldn't be surprised if he requested a trade. That's neither one of us wanting him gone thats us not being surprised if J Staal would wanna jump ship.

 

Cool. My only disagreement is highlighted.  I don't get upset.

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I don't think anybody wants to run him out of town. I just think that if we can get a legit 1C, it gets very hard to keep him, with Rask being the better producer, and locked in for the next five years, at a lot less money. Now, if we can get the 1C without involving Jordan, and J is okay with third-line minutes and slotting in on special teams, fan-freakin'-tastic.

Cool.  We disagree on his value to the team.  The part I highlighted is where I disagree a great deal.

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20 minutes ago, Manwolf said:

Cool.  We disagree on his value to the team.  The part I highlighted is where I disagree a great deal.

They are very close in most respects, but Rask is without question (IMO) better offensively. Jordan, OTOH, is an absolute stud at the dot and great on D. The major difference to me is that we know where J tops out, while Rask, who is already more skilled offensively, is still improving.

 

If all things were equal, it'd be a close call. But they're not, and when you factor in age, remaining contract term, and as-yet-unrealized upside, I think it tips the scales toward Rask. 

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14 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

They are very close in most respects, but Rask is without question (IMO) better offensively. Jordan, OTOH, is an absolute stud at the dot and great on D. The major difference to me is that we know where J tops out, while Rask, who is already more skilled offensively, is still improving.

 

If all things were equal, it'd be a close call. But they're not, and when you factor in age, remaining contract term, and as-yet-unrealized upside, I think it tips the scales toward Rask. 

I agree with the comparison although Jordan is still a valuable piece in the top 6 currently. The question is if we get a legit 1C how does BP slot Rask and Jordan...tough call.

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Only if Jordan wanted out would I want to even consider moving him.

 

The whole point of adding a clear 1C would be how strong we'd be down the middle whether it's Stud/Jordan/Rask or Stud/Rask/Jordan. Either way we end up with strong 2C and an elite 3C.

 

But really, if we were able to do that, we'd be able to roll three scoring lines that could be described with a straight face as 1, 2a, 2b. Few teams can match that.

 

I'd go a step further. If one or two prospects (Zykov? Poturalski, Gauthier, Roy, etc) could come up, or if we could find another serviceable UFA winger, adding a 1C would push PDG/McGinn to the 4th line. Assuming we don't re-up McClement, we should be able to get a bit more out of our 4th line too.

 

Edited by remkin
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4 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

They are very close in most respects, but Rask is without question (IMO) better offensively. Jordan, OTOH, is an absolute stud at the dot and great on D. The major difference to me is that we know where J tops out, while Rask, who is already more skilled offensively, is still improving.

 

If all things were equal, it'd be a close call. But they're not, and when you factor in age, remaining contract term, and as-yet-unrealized upside, I think it tips the scales toward Rask. 

 

Rask seems to have more offensive capabilities than Jordan, but only once the team has established the zone. Jordan can skate rings around Rask right now and has a bigger body, so I'd give him the edge on offense created off the rush.

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4 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

They are very close in most respects, but Rask is without question (IMO) better offensively. Jordan, OTOH, is an absolute stud at the dot and great on D. The major difference to me is that we know where J tops out, while Rask, who is already more skilled offensively, is still improving.

 

If all things were equal, it'd be a close call. But they're not, and when you factor in age, remaining contract term, and as-yet-unrealized upside, I think it tips the scales toward Rask. 

If I saw things as you do with Rask as best #2 center I also would consider moving Jordan.  There are probably 29 other teams that would love to have him in that role IMO.  At $6MM per he could bring back more than a #3 center is worth.

 

Rask may have potential in that role, but we're certain Jordan can fill it. 

4 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

I agree with the comparison although Jordan is still a valuable piece in the top 6 currently. The question is if we get a legit 1C how does BP slot Rask and Jordan...tough call.

See above.

 

I see Jordan's value as a guy who makes his wingers better.  IMO Lindy has learned how to shape his game by flanking Jordan and seeing how to play the game right.  I also believe it is no accident that PDG, McGinn, Zykov and Aho all have seen time flanking Jordan.  Before that it was Nesty and Nordy, who are in oblivion at present.  Before that it was Dwyer and Gerbe.  They're both beyond oblivion now.

 

Aho was a dream on his wing, but too good a player to need a boost from #11.  At 19 he's already trying to boost others.

 

I'm not looking for you to agree, but simply stating my view.

 

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The thing about Jordan is just put guys with him and they are better.  That's always been good enough for me. I really like his game.  Still do. I wish Pastor Bill would roll with Aho and Lindhom and Jordan for the rest of the season.

 

Also, Victor Rask has a ways to go to reach a Jordan Staal status. 

 

With that said IMO Jordan doesn't want to be the captain or he would be already.  I also have had conversations with friends about how he fits or wants to going forward after Eric has left.

 

It's messed up the team is trying to rebuild, but around who?

Edited by coastal_caniac
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2 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

The thing about Jordan is just put guys with him and they are better.  That's always been good enough for me. I really like his game.  Still do. I wish Pastor Bill would roll with Aho and Lindhom and Jordan for the rest of the season.

 

Also, Victor Rask has a ways to go to reach a Jordan Staal status. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I really like Aho, Staal, and Lindholm together but in typical fashion it was abandoned after a couple of bad games (by the whole team), now we a are back to the Rask, Skinner, and Lindholm experiment. Skinner to me has faded back into the guy who cherry picks, avoids contact of any sort, stays on the perimeter, and tries to do too much on his own, but that is another story...

 

I think Rask and Skinner should stay together, but I really felt like Lindholm had something going with Aho, and Staal brought it together.

 

Anyway, count me in as someone who still likes a lot of what Staal brings to the table. My only concern is his motivation and desire to stay here moving forward.

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11 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

The thing about Jordan is just put guys with him and they are better.  That's always been good enough for me. I really like his game.  Still do. I wish Pastor Bill would roll with Aho and Lindhom and Jordan for the rest of the season.

 

Also, Victor Rask has a ways to go to reach a Jordan Staal status. 

 

With that said IMO Jordan doesn't want to be the captain or he would be already.  I also have had conversations with friends about how he fits or wants to going forward after Eric has left.

 

It's messed up the team is trying to rebuild, but around who?

 

Great question.  Hopefully it will be someone that management acquires this off season.  Though I find that to be highly unlikely.  I would be happy if this team took the route of the Florida Panthers.  One off season they went all in via Free Agency and made the playoffs.  I would take that over what we are all currently experiencing.  Should be an interesting off season and I have no expectations because I have seen this scenario before with this team.

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I think the main idea is we are building around our D, which kinda blows because we didn't do it from the net out like, in my opinion, you should. (I guess you could say we did, but re-signing Wardo wasn't really building anything new, just like extending a lease on something) Slavin and Pesce this year cemented themselves as capable NHL defensemen in their early 20's. Like Faulk did a while ago. I think they hope Hanifin, and one of Bean, Fleury, McKeown establish themselves next. Now offensively our offense is carried by Skinner, Aho has stepped up in his rookie year and shown he's probably going to be a real big treat for us. Rask has incrementally improved his offensive output steadily in his still young NHL career. Lindholm had a slow start, and still can't really score goals, but he's finding ways to create offense in other ways. Staal, Teuvo are decent supplementary scoring, but we lack the lead by example we need a goal i'll go score it forward. In my opinion anyways. As for Ward, if we could score, I think our D will improve enough to make him look better, and get better stats. I'm babbling now 

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12 hours ago, Kyrule said:

My only concern is his motivation and desire to stay here moving forward.

These are my concerns too.

 

If Jordan wants to stay and we can get what we need without moving him, fantastic. I would like to see better production, which is entirely Rem's fault (!). Like him, I really hoped J would just pick right up where he left off last year, and I'll readily admit to the fact that he did not giving me a, "What is it with these Staal boys and not getting out of the freakin' gate?" moment, and it's stayed around. But I can't dispute others' points about him making his wingers better, which is pretty much what his brother could never do. And count me with those who want Aho and Lindholm back with him. I get trying TT there instead, given his obvious chemistry with SeaBass, but okay, we've tried it. Let's go back to what works. 

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