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In-Season Talk 2016-17

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It is so obvious that BP has totally lost this team.   We all wanted him to succeed but he just isn't cutting it as HC.  Now I will give him a pass due to the talent on this team.   But next season, if they start out bad through the 1st 10 games.  He should be fired ASAP.  By the way, in before the blind optimist defend him and tell me I am wrong and that this is part of the rebuild process.

Edited by bluedevil58

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14 hours ago, Pkling40 said:

11 gamer here- (only because I live 2 hours from raleigh or would be more) 7 seasons...renewed on the 2nd ... guess I'm a glutton for punishment - I just can't get the moments like  canes2017 mentioned above out of my head-not to mention the .02 second game winning goal - or the one and only hat trick by E.Staal on hat night or... number 59 who played with passion and heart- or Rutuu getting his face busted open -stitched and scored...or Timmy playing with a fishbowl on his head- how many games did we send "Marty" down the tunnel? I know how great it can be-and believing it will be again ????‍♀️ LETS GO CANES

 

Thanks for more smiles!.. helping me get over my anger and frustration of this year.. as great as brodeur was.. we really were his kryptonite!.. he must have hated when revelaed the playoff seeds and we had to face him.. since this is making me feel better some more good memories..

 

- commies bathrobe( even sold it at eye)

- Whitney's camera bombing the pregame interviews

- the "secret weapon".. esp the O.T. Winner and jumping on glass as he tied all time playoff winning goals

-dixies hat and leprechaun dance

-beating buffalo and just laughing as all the sabre fans sulked out of building

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40 minutes ago, canes2017 said:

 

-beating buffalo and just laughing as all the sabre fans sulked out of building

Oohhhh definitely enjoyed that one.  Got a walk up single ticket at the ticket office  for game seven.  Almost got thrown out because one was too drunk and talking smack to another fan.  All that hooting and hollering after the 2nd period, just to be thrown in their faces.

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46 minutes ago, canes2017 said:

 

 

-dixies hat and leprechaun dance

 

I was a fan of dixie and especially the leprechaun dance! Bring it back!

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18 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

This off season we will see if RF has the money to spend that he has said he does. I personally don't think he does.

I'm not convinced he will spend either. I have been waiting patiently to see something and the payroll remains at the bottom of the league. RF and PK have to show me they are willing to spend. Yes RF has stated that they have Cap space and also salary space so they Could do something there as well. They also may choose not to add any significant salary. I truly believe that PK and RF have to spend in the off season to keep this build going. If not the build dies any momentum that it has gained and they will suffer dramatically from a fan base perspective.

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What if you've been an ok employee and join a new organization.  You slump at the outset and then suffer a mishap, or a concussion.  Not the start you wanted.  Your manager then decides to berate you in front of everyone, including your workplace friends, and the news of it hits your Social Media sphere.  Sure, you'd be motivated to perform better.  Uh, I doubt it.

 

Sorry, but BP was out of line on this one.  Call him aside and have the chat you've already had with Skinner and Rask. Hate to say it, but when they stop responding the HC is the one to go.  I think RF will stick with him, but we fans should be concerned.

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18 hours ago, ironman87 said:

First time I've heard him use the term "working their bag off". A bit vivid.

 

He definitely threw Eddie under the bus. Forslund said last night that he thinks there's more to this. I wonder about double concussion, it's just weird not getting either one in a game, but even without that, Forslund speculated it might be about practice habits or something besides just a bad game and stats.

 

Coaches rarely singe a guy out for bad play by name, and seems even more rare for goalies.

 

For whatever reason, the Eddie Francis thought he was heisting from Vancouver is not the Eddie that showed up here.

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I've rarely seen much good come from a manager or head coach calling out a player in public.  We all know that Lack has been awful, but Ward hasn't been very good either. 

Edited by Bigfist
left out two words

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6 minutes ago, Bigfist said:

I've rarely seen much good come from a manager or head coach calling out a player in public.  We all know that Lack has been awful, but Ward hasn't been very good either. 

That's because BP doesn't know what to do.  He has lost the team.  I found this to be extremely unprofessional and out of character for him.

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I believe that the main problem with this team is ownership's reluctance to spend any money on the team. To have a successful rebuild you need great scouting, coaching, management and veteran leadership. Karmanos has not been willing to spend the money to rebuild this team successfully. An eight year rebuild with no end in sight is just not good enough. Players like Faulk and Skinner Will be playing for different teams before the current rebuild is successful. Francis,Peters and the scouting staff are just treading water in their current roles. They had little to no experience coming in and are learning as they go. For a different take on a rebuild just look at Toronto. The Maple Leafs were a mess until they brought in real hockey guys with experience to handle their rebuild.

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It was a bit out of character the way BP called out Lack. I'm sure some frustration is showing but in the end he said what we all have been thinking. He called out a player that had been given multiple chances over two seasons to grab the crease. If he hurt his feelings, too bad. Peters has stuck with these guys in trying times and he had enough. Good on him! 

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We are now officially the youngest team in the NHL. We have at least 3 potentially high end forward prospects and several on the edge guys. We have defensive depth that is insane. There is a framework, but we need to add to it. We need a legit #1 goalie, and at least one proven, high end forward. There are 3 positions that haunt teams for years if they are vacant: goalie, #1 Dman, top line forward (typically the 1C). I think Slavin is getting close to the #1 Dman, and Hanifin will be there too.

 

So, clearly, we lack that elite forward (or two) and that stud goalie.

 

Really, I think the rest is there.

 

Now I will say this. We need scoring, so in a way trading Skinner seems nuts. He's far and away the only guy on the team with elite scoring sense. But he is not an elite point getter. He is #80 in points per game for forwards. This is the bottom end of first line, but not where you want your top guy to be. Anyways, he is small and unconventional, so in theory trading him for another, different type of first line forward could make sense, but the problem is that we cannot afford to give up any of his goals. And who is going to trade a guy for Skinner who can score as much as him, but is bigger and faster?

 

And this leads me to a numerical expression of where we are offensively: we have built the bottom 7/9ths of our top 9. We have improved in that top 9 depth from the bottom. But we lack the guys at the very top.

 

Just listing the ppg rankings of our top forwards shows it:

 

Skinner: #80

Staal: #121

Lindholm: #122 (and hot)

Rask #127

Aho: #135

TT # 167

Stempniak: #175

 

Since there are 30 teams and 3 guys on each line, an oversimplified way to look at it is:

 

1st line: 1-90

Second 91-180

Third 180-210

 

We have one legit first liner: Skinner, but barely. Then we have 7 second liners. This is very close to being able to roll three very good scoring lines. Except where we are short is at the top. You cannot win consistently in the NHL with no forwards in the top 60.

 

I think this is a pretty good numerical expression that this team HAS improved the middle of the forward line up significantly, but as has been the case for almost all of our losing years, we lack that top line talent.

 

That is hard to get, and Francis, despite trying for Drouin, and working the phones constantly has been to this point unwilling or unable to make that major move of converting his picks and defensive prospects into a top forward. He was unable or unwilling to move up in the draft a few notches and grab a Nylander or Jost.

 

He now has immense cap space. More picks by far than any other team, and a bevy of top D prospects. He simply MUST make that move this offseason, even if it is the dreaded overpay. If you are missing one or two key pieces, and have ton of cap space, is one or even two slight overpays, that huge? If it brings the key piece?

 

Add even one elite name to the top of that forward core and everyone else slides down, with Gauthier, Roy, KK and whoever we get at the top of the draft this year in the wings.

 

 

Edited by remkin
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1 minute ago, OBXer said:

It was a bit out of character the way BP called out Lack. I'm sure some frustration is showing but in the end he said what we all have been thinking. He called out a player that had been given multiple chances over two seasons to grab the crease. If he hurt his feelings, too bad. Peters has stuck with these guys in trying times and he had enough. Good on him! 

 

A great humanoid once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one."

 

Peters saw the team play his system almost perfectly, hold a team to 16 shots, score 3 goals, and lose.  So he did that for the many.  The needs of the one were thrown in the trash, and I didn't see it negatively.  I am sure he has his pulse on the team opinion here and that was the tidbit about earning your teammates respect.  We don't know everything that goes on but it certainly looks like the team also doesn't think Eddie is doing whatever it takes. 

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21 minutes ago, RonnieFranchise said:

I believe that the main problem with this team is ownership's reluctance to spend any money on the team. To have a successful rebuild you need great scouting, coaching, management and veteran leadership. Karmanos has not been willing to spend the money to rebuild this team successfully. An eight year rebuild with no end in sight is just not good enough. Players like Faulk and Skinner Will be playing for different teams before the current rebuild is successful. Francis,Peters and the scouting staff are just treading water in their current roles. They had little to no experience coming in and are learning as they go. For a different take on a rebuild just look at Toronto. The Maple Leafs were a mess until they brought in real hockey guys with experience to handle their rebuild.

 

I agree on all your points.  If I am in PK's shoes, would I be a big spender?  Probably not!  Not only does our fan support lack, but our advertising and tv money are some of the lowest in the league. Would I want to spend 10-15 mil more with a hope that everything fits and the team does well?  Its a big gamble.  

 

I understand that our lack of competitiveness has driven down attendance and eyeballs (which drives down advertising money).  Would everything fix itself if were top 3 in the eastern?  No!  Heck as I stated, I got a ticket at the box office for game 7 against the Slugs right before game time.  Point being even we are great, we don't attract a vast amount of attention.  We have to make a conference finals to get close to making money.  Who can guarantee that?

 

this isn't a sky is falling post or a domesday post, just thought provoking.  Its a tough position for PK.  We have 12 million coming off the books with a need to re-sign TT and possibly extend the top D pair. So maybe we can go up slightly while spending the money more wisely.  What would y'all do in his case? 

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

It was a bit out of character the way BP called out Lack. I'm sure some frustration is showing but in the end he said what we all have been thinking. He called out a player that had been given multiple chances over two seasons to grab the crease. If he hurt his feelings, too bad. Peters has stuck with these guys in trying times and he had enough. Good on him! 

My suspicion is that it ties into perceived work ethic.  Lack seems to have a "happy go lucky" personality and I can't imagine anything ticking Peters off more than if he thinks a player isn't working hard.  Pure speculation on my part, but something is up given how out of character it is for Peters, and it doesn't seem likely to me that it was based on just the one game.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I'd like to see a rotation of the guys in Charlotte come up over the remaining games.  It may come at the expense of a few guys that can be moved up/down to make it happen (PDG, Ryan, McGinn).  Sure Checkers want to make playoffs, but finding out if some of those guys have game that translates to NHL speed is more important IMO.

 

Start next year's camp right now and give a few guys a look.

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To lighten the mood:  Apparently, Peters has a second job.  I had to do a triple take.  I wish I knew who this was..

 

 

IMG_0340.JPG

Edited by ironman87

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And regarding the discussion above.   I wonder where we would be if we had at least a league average goalie. My guess is in the hunt at a minimum.  Ward was that for about 2 months.  

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

 

I agree on all your points.  If I am in PK's shoes, would I be a big spender?  Probably not!  Not only does our fan support lack, but our advertising and tv money are some of the lowest in the league. Would I want to spend 10-15 mil more with a hope that everything fits and the team does well?  Its a big gamble.  

 

I understand that our lack of competitiveness has driven down attendance and eyeballs (which drives down advertising money).  Would everything fix itself if were top 3 in the eastern?  No!  Heck as I stated, I got a ticket at the box office for game 7 against the Slugs right before game time.  Point being even we are great, we don't attract a vast amount of attention.  We have to make a conference finals to get close to making money.  Who can guarantee that?

 

this isn't a sky is falling post or a domesday post, just thought provoking.  Its a tough position for PK.  We have 12 million coming off the books with a need to re-sign TT and possibly extend the top D pair. So maybe we can go up slightly while spending the money more wisely.  What would y'all do in his case? 

 2 things..

 

1. The reason for the seats available in 2006 eastern finals.. was bad marketing/explaining by canes-not a case of lack of fan support... we actually had  over 12K season ticket holders that year....but what happened is the price of final tickets controlled by League, not individual teams- So the price jump for a fan base used to low price tickets was very shocking.. their $20 seats went to $100.. their $50 seats to 150-250 etc. etc... So many were really ticked off, blamed canes and didn't get the playoff strips because of the big cost of them- and why the slug fans and you were able to buy tickets. If they had warned fans better there would be this jump in price( as did in 2010) people would have planned better and been ready.. IMO tickets never would have been available.

 

There is a lot of money available... with the revenue sharing from league and with Gale force holdings making a huge Porfit, there is more than enough cash flow and profit for any moves..

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4 hours ago, Manwolf said:

What if you've been an ok employee and join a new organization.  You slump at the outset and then suffer a mishap, or a concussion.  Not the start you wanted.  Your manager then decides to berate you in front of everyone, including your workplace friends, and the news of it hits your Social Media sphere.  Sure, you'd be motivated to perform better.  Uh, I doubt it.

 

Sorry, but BP was out of line on this one.  Call him aside and have the chat you've already had with Skinner and Rask. Hate to say it, but when they stop responding the HC is the one to go.  I think RF will stick with him, but we fans should be concerned.

Okay--this is sarchasm, right?

 

First people complain when our coaches don't call anyone out--then they complain when they do.

 

Eddie Lack is making something like $3 million dollars this year. At the moment, that is $300,000 per game. And it's not like BP didn't already acknowledge his hard luck this year. He did, before his last start, and praised the heck out his performance afterward. But despite pitching a no-no in that game, he skates out there the next time and looks like he's wearing roller skates.

 

BP has shown a deft capacity for pushing buttons that get guys to respond, but I've said it before (and despite being called a conspiracy theorist, I'll say it again): Eddie pissed somebody (read: Bill Peters) off early this year, probably by speaking out when he didn't get the same chances in "the goalie competition" that Cam did. But you know what? He's getting them now, when there is almost zero pressure on, and stinking up the place. FOUR goals on 16 shots? Really Eddie? Maybe you need to make fewer commercials and posts to Twitter and start being a pro--or get outta town, and take your tacos with you.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 hours ago, hag65 said:

 

A great humanoid once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one."

 

Peters saw the team play his system almost perfectly, hold a team to 16 shots, score 3 goals, and lose.  So he did that for the many.  The needs of the one were thrown in the trash, and I didn't see it negatively.  I am sure he has his pulse on the team opinion here and that was the tidbit about earning your teammates respect.  We don't know everything that goes on but it certainly looks like the team also doesn't think Eddie is doing whatever it takes. 

 

I see it kind of this way too.  Something was up more than BPs words.  His face looked like it was about to burst when he was talking about Lack.

 

i have managed people for over 25 years.  A manager that yells all the time is just a yeller  and nobody pays them any attention after a while.  A level headed, patient manager who never "loses" it seems too nice.  I have always thought the well timed explosion is very beneficial.  Every once in a great while I have to let my inner a-hole shine just so my employees know it's available.  It is very effective.

 

IMG_0231.JPG.10cca13e9a2fbcfbd83e10b9d029b5c2.JPG

Edited by super_dave_1
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4 hours ago, remkin said:

First time I've heard him use the term "working their bag off". A bit vivid.

 

He definitely threw Eddie under the bus. Forslund said last night that he thinks there's more to this. I wonder about double concussion, it's just weird not getting either one in a game, but even without that, Forslund speculated it might be about practice habits or something besides just a bad game and stats.

 

Coaches rarely singe a guy out for bad play by name, and seems even more rare for goalies.

 

For whatever reason, the Eddie Francis thought he was heisting from Vancouver is not the Eddie that showed up here.

The only thing missing is Eddie eating popcorn and Tacos while sitting on the bench. I recall a game a few weeks ago and Eddie was sitting on the bench. Skinner just scored and came to the bench. As Skinner was going by,Eddie winked and said nice goal. Skins didn't even acknowledge Eddie and moved by quickly. You have to wonder if Eddie gets any respect from the team mates?

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I am just so tired of one crummy season after another. We had one great year, and rather than building on it, they let it all slip away. I am very happy baseball season is almost here.

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