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In-Season Talk 2016-17

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Slavin is a stud almost all the time. He would be at the top of my do not trade list.

 

It is interesting though because Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury and Bean are all LHD. Unless someone makes a long term habit of playing their off side, at least one, and probably two of them would eventually have to go...

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Slavin is a stud almost all the time. He would be at the top of my do not trade list.

 

It is interesting though because Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury and Bean are all LHD. Unless someone makes a long term habit of playing their off side, at least one, and probably two of them would eventually have to go...

 

 

I know Babcock, and by extension Peters, is big on the LHD/RHD thing, but it's something i never heard much about until the past few years.  If i'm not mistaken Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, and Doug Harvey were all LHDs who played RD.. and man, if it worked for them, it works for me.  I honestly don't know what side Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury, and Bean prefer to play on, but personally i think their preference should take precedence over some compulsory 'he's left-handed so he should play on the left'.  Mind you if they all feel more-comfortable on the left, then yeah, definitely something to take into account.

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Trip has been going on and on about it lately since we've had Dahlbeck and now Tennyson on their off side. Basically it is harder, but doable. Peters has mentioned it too. Like you, I am far from an expert on it, but it has been a topic of discussion in trades too, (how teams are looking for RHD, etc).

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Yeah, i can't argue with that - it's definitely a topic of discussion in today's NHL, and has helped Tripp fill up some precious minutes.  I just wonder, if Orr came along now instead of 40-something years ago, would Peters be pigeon-holing him as a LD because he's left handed?  I mean who knows, Orr, Bourque, and Harvey may have been even better had they played on their 'natural' side - but playing on their off-sides may have been what made them Orr, Bourque, and Harvey.  I know it's not the way of things anymore, but i just think quirks such as players preferring to play on off-sides may be preferable to trying to make everyone fit into the 'typical' mold.  Not saying any of these guys do because i don't know - but in a way it's like an orchestra hiring an excellent cellist and telling her she should instead play violin because she has small hands.

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I would say the main argument in a guy playing his off-side is that we could more easily justify keeping more of our current and future D men if one or more could switch to the right side effectively.

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The link below uses quantifiable metrics to answer your speculations on the importance of "handedness" of NHL defenseman in today's game.  It's pretty conclusive if you are willing to give it a read.  Finding a balanced d-corp is certainly a trend over the last 10 years.

 

handedness.JPG.ffd445a630c0446198d6bae675570f1c.JPG

 

An excerpt:

 

"After performing various tests to both validate the importance of handedness with respect to the performance of d-pairings and determine exactly how important it is as a variable, it is safe to conclude that NHL teams are justified in their pursuit of a balanced shooting d-corps. Correspondingly, handedness definitely warrants a place in the decision making process when identifying ideal pieces to fill a vacant roster spot."

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/03/04/quantifying-the-importance-of-handedness/

 

 

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4 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I know Babcock, and by extension Peters, is big on the LHD/RHD thing, but it's something i never heard much about until the past few years.  If i'm not mistaken Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, and Doug Harvey were all LHDs who played RD.. and man, if it worked for them, it works for me.  I honestly don't know what side Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury, and Bean prefer to play on, but personally i think their preference should take precedence over some compulsory 'he's left-handed so he should play on the left'.  Mind you if they all feel more-comfortable on the left, then yeah, definitely something to take into account.

Certainly being NO expert on the game, and never claiming to be, realm, but it seems to me, and correct me if I'm off base, but The game has certainly evolved since those greats' you've mentioned time, and I suspect that not only players conditioning has dramatically changed, making hockey almost a 12 month sport, but also the equipment.

 

Now, based on the enlightening discussion I had with top recently, where he's illustrated the hockey stick designs, and knowing that these sticks are made out of lively composite material, I'm wondering if Orr, Bourque or Harvey, whom as you state handled the "sidedness" seemlessly, had these issues to deal with? Just asking? 

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9 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I know Babcock, and by extension Peters, is big on the LHD/RHD thing, but it's something i never heard much about until the past few years.  If i'm not mistaken Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, and Doug Harvey were all LHDs who played RD.. and man, if it worked for them, it works for me.  I honestly don't know what side Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury, and Bean prefer to play on, but personally i think their preference should take precedence over some compulsory 'he's left-handed so he should play on the left'.  Mind you if they all feel more-comfortable on the left, then yeah, definitely something to take into account.

The problem is that the game was much, much slower then. Guys do not have anywhere near the time they once did at the point, and if a guy is closing on you and you're on your weak side, your odds of keeping the zone fall off the cliff.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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4 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Certainly being NO expert on the game, and never claiming to be, realm, but it seems to me, and correct me if I'm off base, but The game has certainly evolved since those greats' you've mentioned time, and I suspect that not only players conditioning has dramatically changed, making hockey almost a 12 month sport, but also the equipment.

 

Now, based on the enlightening discussion I had with top recently, where he's illustrated the hockey stick designs, and knowing that these sticks are made out of lively composite material, I'm wondering if Orr, Bourque or Harvey, whom as you state handled the "sidedness" seemlessly, had these issues to deal with? Just asking? 

D's sticks are seldom as curvy as O's. Think of them as clubs, and forwards' twigs, by comparison, as surgical instruments. 

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16 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

OK, i'll back down on this - the consensus is clearly LHD=LD and RHD=RD and the analytics back it up.

 

I don't think this is settled 100% until someone says they would rather have Murphy on his strong side over Slavin on his off side.  If you wouldn't, then it is merely a question of personnel.  You would rather everyone play on their strong side but there are cases where you might want differently.

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3 minutes ago, hag65 said:

 

I don't think this is settled 100% until someone says they would rather have Murphy on his strong side over Slavin on his off side.  If you wouldn't, then it is merely a question of personnel.  You would rather everyone play on their strong side but there are cases where you might want differently.

 

 

Yowza.

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Hanifin has really stepped up his game since the trade deadline.  He is either benefiting from the Slavin pairing, has more chemistry with Slavin, or steps up his game when the stakes are higher.  

 

Either way, if he continues this play he'll be taking his name off the trading block.

Edited by gocanes0506

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41 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Hanifin has really stepped up his game since the trade deadline.  He is either benefiting from the Slavin pairing, has more chemistry with Slavin, or steps up his game when the stakes are higher.  

 

Either way, if he continues this play he'll be taking his name off the trading block.

You mean Faulk right? Hanifins with Pesce

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I think it's time for a major blow up.  Safe:  Aho, Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin.  Everyone else should be traded.  I would rather watch a big, slow lumbering team that played a physical game every night and actually finished checks than this.  I know we have had the debate over and over again about skill and speed vs size and physicality and how skill and speed probably is better suited for Peter's possession style system.  RF tried the speed and skill thing and it hasn't panned out.  I would gladly pay to see a team deliver crushing hits and lose over what we currently are seeing.

Edited by bluedevil58

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1 hour ago, bluedevil58 said:

I think it's time for a major blow up.  Safe:  Aho, Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin.  Everyone else should be traded.  I would rather watch a big, slow lumbering team that played a physical game every night and actually finished checks than this.  I know we have had the debate over and over again about skill and speed vs size and physicality and how skill and speed probably is better suited for Peter's possession style system.  RF tried the speed and skill thing and it hasn't panned out.  I would gladly pay to see a team deliver crushing hits and lose over what we currently are seeing.

 

*edit* is that going to accomplish?  We don't want to be the Yotes of the Eastern conference.  If PK will allow an additional 5 million spending for next season, we could be very good next season.  20 million to sign 2 20+ goal scorers and a 1a goalie is easily feasible.  And we might have enough to sign a mentor or 2 for 7th Dman and a 4th liner.  Our D is pretty solid, PK is top 3, and our youth will only get better.  I can only imagine what Rask could do with top 6 forwards as line mates.

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I've been happier with both Faulk and Hanifin since Hainsey was traded - it was a bit of addition by subtraction on the top 2 pairings.  Unfortunately it didn't help the 3rd pairing, but i'm still of the mind that Murphy's being played so he can hit the requisite 35 games this season to expose him in the expansion draft.  I think we'll be just fine with 2 of the yutes who may be ready for the jump and/or Dahlbeck or Tennyson should they be extended.  The talk of Ward being or not being good enough, to me it's more whether the Ward/Lack tandem is good enough.  I don't think it is.  If GMRF can bring in Dudeman goalie to replace Lack and we go with the Dudeman/Ward tandem, i'm good with that.  Or if he can bring in Dudeman to replace Ward and we go with Dudeman/Lack (i don't see that happening, mind), then maybe i'm good with that as well.  But i don't think another season of Ward/Lack will frost the cupcakes.

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19 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

 

*edit* is that going to accomplish?  We don't want to be the Yotes of the Eastern conference.  If PK will allow an additional 5 million spending for next season, we could be very good next season.  20 million to sign 2 20+ goal scorers and a 1a goalie is easily feasible.  And we might have enough to sign a mentor or 2 for 7th Dman and a 4th liner.  Our D is pretty solid, PK is top 3, and our youth will only get better.  I can only imagine what Rask could do with top 6 forwards as line mates.

 

It is not feasible when guys like Ladd went for 7m/year on the open market last off season.  The only way this team is acquiring true top end talent is landing an impact now player through the draft or via trade.  UFA is a total pipe dream.

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16 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

It is not feasible when guys like Ladd went for 7m/year on the open market last off season.  The only way this team is acquiring true top end talent is landing an impact now player through the draft or via trade.  UFA is a total pipe dream.

 

Maybe the better word is acquire.  Columbus can't protect all their 20 goal scorers.  Minnesota wont be able to protect or afford to re-sign both Nino and Granlund.  There are a couple of other teams that will have problems with the cap and/or draft protection.  We just need to score.  

 

Oshie will get big money but how many other big spenders are going to be able to throw weight around this off season?  I don't think many.  The cap may go down and put hurting on teams.

 

Blowing it up will only further the deminishing numbers in the fan base.  PK can't afford it to kill the fan base if he is serious about selling.  

Edited by gocanes0506

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I find myself now watching the games and trying not to over analyze  the team. I am asking myself at the end of the game who stood out. I'm not sure why but maybe I'm trying to figure out just what we need and  where the team might be headed. You know, what is working, what isn't.

 

You don't fire sale a rebuild or blow it up. You add to it and evaluate player potential. I have not made any conclusions other than we still need work to fill out the roster in forwards, defense and goalie. Yup just about every aspect of the game needs improving. My question is can the young roster players and prospects grow into the game next season with only an addition of a player or two.

 

I wish I knew the answer.

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I do not favor a blow up, but a selective trade or two could be ok. Rask, for instance just doesn't seem to be a true 1C. Maybe he is packaged with a D man or prospect. Teravainen is high skill, but he's soft, maybe a team that needs D and skill might look at him with a D man to get a hard nosed scorer type. Lindholm is growing into a really nice player, but so far the goals are not coming. If someone really wanted him...Skinner is a truly stellar goal scorer and unique talent, but he is not fast, so-so on D, and has an unorthodox style, and is not physical, maybe he could be packaged to bring a big time talent back.

 

I don't know if any of these moves are available or even smart, but I could see doing one of them. But not a complete blow up. Francis has to look over his team and figure out which pieces can go.

 

The problem Francis has, IMHO, is that he ultimately has to mostly trade defense for offense, but those assets are still prospects and thus not at peak value (Fleury, McKeown, Bean), too important to trade (Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin) or Faulk. (Some would include Faulk in the too important to trade).

 

This is the year we see if Francis can transition from accumulating to shaping and building a team. I think he can. I also think he better.

Edited by remkin
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This has been possibly the most difficult season for me in recent years.  The team has been "more fun" to watch, yet I keep seeing the same old stuff I've seen for the past several years.  I reluctantly renewed my paltry ticket plan for next season.  Still not sure why after watching last night's game.  I haven't posted on here for quite some time, in fact, didn't even follow the board for a few months because of all of the bickering.  Good to see the stalwarts hanging in there.  I don't have the answers either, but I do see the need in at least two STRONG scoring forwards, at least one STRONG and AGGRESSIVE defenseman, and if we can catch lightning in a jar a goalie who's ON FIRE.  So much potential - so much disappointment.  (Kinda like my high school report cards!)

 

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