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Off-Season Talk 2017

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8 hours ago, OBXer said:

NEXT

1 Upgrade Goalie

2 Top 6 Center

3 5/6 defenseman

4 4th line center

 

 

Only #2 is the big one. And make it a top 3 forward at least (my opinion, Francis set the bar more top 6, but may be underpromising)/

 

I think #4 goes to our boy Wallmark. 6 point in 5 playoff games plus a great season. Peters sang his praises and got him back up immediately after a send down. High hockey IQ. Outside shot for Roy, but I don't think so.

 

#3 should be a fairly easy find. I also wonder if Fleury/McKeown might be ready.

Edited by remkin

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From "The Great #1 Goalie Thread"

     

Remkin said:

 

Maybe not a massive splash like a Duchene, but another really nice medium move up front.

 

 

What I would've said if it weren't in the goalie thread:

 

I'm kind of curious what others have to say about this idea (center-wise). If we get Oshie (fingers crossed), then we probably won't get that great, young 1C. It would probably be, in my mind, someone like Derek Stepan. A guy that plays more of a defensive game, or more of a playmaker. Not the flashiest or most exciting player, but someone that can get the job done on paper. I'd like to try and get better up the middle, but I agree that it probably won't be an all-star caliber player. But like I said, I'd like to hear some other opinions on the topic, preferably some specific names that folks would like to see don the Canes sweater next season! :P

 

46 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I wouldn't count out Derek Ryan as the 4C. 

 

Agree 100% on this. I'd love to see him on the team just because he's a great story, but he does have some skill to go along with it.

Edited by Citizen_Quinn

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5 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I wouldn't count out Derek Ryan as the 4C. 

 

We have to sign him first, but very true, he'd be a good option too.

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Not saying I'm a fan of this nor do I think it would happen.  How would you guys feel if the team acquired Eric Staal via trading of their picks?  A cheap two way 1C under a very affordable contract?  Bad joke right?...

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Not saying I'm a fan of this nor do I think it would happen.  How would you guys feel if the team acquired Eric Staal via trading of their picks?  A cheap two way 1C under a very affordable contract?  Bad joke right?...

 

It is Sunday morning.  I'm reading before church, and bludevil58 is drinking already.

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Just ruminating on Peters at the press conference and the notion of keeping up with the metro.  Usually I don't find it useful to try to predict the rest of the division or conference, but Peter's specific language involved keeping up with the Metro division.  Then contemplating the fact that the 2 worst teams in the conference did indeed end up #1 and #2 in the lottery and will both get fairly delete centers in the draft, and the Rangers Columbus Pittsburgh in Washington are already basically power houses.  It really does seem like a situation where Frances needs to make substantial moves beyond the Darling move to keep us in the hunt.

 

Then consider that Boston and Ottawa made the playoffs, as did MTL and Toronto, and that Tampa needs to be passed again, and Florida still has the basis of a pretty good team and it really is not enough to fix goalie and small ball.

 

He needs to go big.

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1 hour ago, bluedevil58 said:

Not saying I'm a fan of this nor do I think it would happen.  How would you guys feel if the team acquired Eric Staal via trading of their picks?  A cheap two way 1C under a very affordable contract?  Bad joke right?...

 

I'm reminded of a quote from the movie Forrest Gump.  I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out which one.

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11 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I'm reminded of a quote from the movie Forrest Gump.  I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out which one.

SIASD

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I will admit that I am an E Staal fan, and I was sorry to see how it ended here, but it ended. Good luck to him going forward, but I can't see him coming back, and being an effective player.

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8 hours ago, remkin said:

We have to sign him first, but very true, he'd be a good option too.

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna be an issue. At this point I think he'd follow BP the the gates of Hell.

 

Plus, he had undeniable chemistry with Skinner. That's not to suggest they'd be linemates, but as a fourth liner, Ryan would anchor the PK and could bring that playmaking ability to the PP.

 

I do think Wallmark and Roy are the future, but there's no question that this roster gelled and that good pairs were identified. I'll be surprised if we don't keep Ryan in the mix.

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33 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna be an issue. At this point I think he'd follow BP the the gates of Hell.

 

 

Me too.  If we were talking Ryan as 1C i don't think any of us would be jumping at it, but as a 4C i think he'd be tough to beat.  4C isn't even an issue as far as i'm concerned - sign him ASAP and focus the time and energy on the top 6.

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I see Ryan more as a third liner than a fourth liner. I would not be disappointed if we signed him  but will understand if we don't. I think a player like Ryan and his desire are a plus for most teams.

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As a team bloated with defensive prospects, I was looking into what teams are bloated in forward prospects. The Toronto Maple Leafs is the team that keeps sticking out. I feel like Canes and Leafs make good trade partners. I wouldn't be against a deal around Fleury and Kapanen. He is putting up impressive numbers for a 20-year old in the AHL. He seems ready to make the jump next season. As much as I love Rem's Oshie theory, I don't know if we'll be big spenders in FA considering we have a handful of young players getting somewhat close to extensions.

Plus, who wouldn't love an all-Finn line of Aho-Teravainen-Kapanen? That'd be some fun.

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16 minutes ago, TheFaulker said:

As a team bloated with defensive prospects, I was looking into what teams are bloated in forward prospects. The Toronto Maple Leafs is the team that keeps sticking out. I feel like Canes and Leafs make good trade partners. I wouldn't be against a deal around Fleury and Kapanen. He is putting up impressive numbers for a 20-year old in the AHL. He seems ready to make the jump next season. As much as I love Rem's Oshie theory, I don't know if we'll be big spenders in FA considering we have a handful of young players getting somewhat close to extensions.

Plus, who wouldn't love an all-Finn line of Aho-Teravainen-Kapanen? That'd be some fun.

I know Fleury gets mentioned a lot as potential traidebait, but I think he might be more than just a great prospect, in terms of the org's development process. As the first first-rounder that RF selected as GM, I think there's probably some anticipation on his part to get him to the NHL in our colors as a sort of litmus test for how the re-tooled AHL org is doing with prepping/assessing guys' readiness. 

 

NHL teams always need D. If our AHL side can develop D the right way, it opens trade opportunities after guys have proved themselves at NHL 5-6 for a couple years, letting us decide whether to move them or knowing that we can move an older/UFA guy with confidence that the kid is ready to step up.

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43 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

 

NHL teams always need D. If our AHL side can develop D the right way, it opens trade opportunities after guys have proved themselves at NHL 5-6 for a couple years, letting us decide whether to move them or knowing that we can move an older/UFA guy with confidence that the kid is ready to step up.

 

This sort of idea is what I've been kicking around in terms of big picture also. The closer players get to being proven at the NHL level, the more they're worth in trades. But when they are prospects it's tougher to get value. This is especially true for D because they take longer, as a rule to develop. But until they are developed they are just prospects. And we need offense and are first round prospect tilted to defense.

 

This is why a hockey trade for a top performing, proven NHL forward seems so hard to envision with just picks and prospects, and one major reason that Faulk's name kept coming up. What would Faulk have returned when he was a prospect vs. what he would return now? It gets tougher too because our present and accounted for NHL Dmen of value, are generally not guys we (or at least I) want to trade. I would consider Slavin untouchable. I think Pesce is de facto untouchable because he is underrated and thus will not bring fair value, and he is a RHD, where our pipeline is mostly LHD. Hanifin is just coming into his own, which is another example of not trading guys while their developing. What would a 19 yo. bad plus/minus bottom pair, not looking as good as a couple of guys in his draft class, mistake prone prospect bring? What if that same kid is an All Star defenseman in a couple of years? The organization clearly thinks he's substantially better than Fleury. Faulk? We've beaten that to death, but in terms of peak value...Faulk did look better defensively at the end of the year though, and brings needed D offense and is RHD.

 

So, we are left to ponder trading prospects such as Fleury, McKeown, Bean. But what is the return for them? Fleury, for instance, started the year pretty average at best in Charlotte. As late as January, posters on here were calling him a bust. But the guy finished strong. He's probably nearly NHL ready. But do other GM's value him as the second defenseman taken in his draft?

 

I guess we'll find out, but it just seems that pulling the trigger on trading one of those prime D prospects while they're still prospects almost assures lower return than the same guy traded after he's at least had some NHL games.

 

The exception would be prospect for prospect. The problem there is that we need help now, this year. We need proven NHL. So if we trade for a near ready prospect, that is not proven NHL ready. This could still be a very nice move. Faulker mentions Toronto, or I think Edmonton maybe, but it gets tricky looking at other team's prospects just like it is for them to look at ours.

 

So, I come back to TJ Oshie. Yes, a one man wish list (the UFA list really doesn't contain anyone else of much interest). We want instant help now. There it is. I get that it will be tough as he's the only really good UFA out there, making it even more competitive to get him, but he would instantly fix our scoring issues in a big way.

 

Anyway, I get that Oshie is a long shot. He's a long shot for any team since there are probably 31 teams that would like to have him. But if somehow it happened, we'd be in the catbird seat. Our immediate problems solved, Francis can take his time trying to turn all of our quantity into at least one more,  young quality forward, even if that guy is a prospect. ie: Fluery for XXXX high potential prospect forward, maybe close to NHL ready, but on the verge. Or maybe a current young NHL player with breakout potential, say a Jonathan Drouin (would have to sweeten the pot, which gets a bit back to the issue of prospect for proven guy).

 

Anyway, more and more, I think Francis has to find at least one 60 point potential guy, and another 50 point type guy to keep pace with the Metro, or even the East. NJ got Hall, and now will get Patrick Nolan at #1,  Columbus, already very good, got Pierre-Luc Dubouis #3 overall last year. Philly will get another talented center in Hirshier at #2. Washington can lose Oshie and others and still kick butt in the regular season. Pittsburgh? Powerhouse. NYR? The only team that could teeter is the NYI really, and with Tavares, they can always be good.

 

I know I'm raising the bar from what Francis himself laid out, but Peters was the "excited cop" to Francis "understated cop", and Peters was clearly indicating that this is the year for bold moves to keep up with the Metro, and while Francis was promising less, in the end he did say he and Peters are on the same page.

Edited by remkin

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Also do not underestimate the value of defensemen in trades.  Remember the Devils got Taylor Hall (a top line player) for Adam Larsson (a very good but not great defenseman).  It is true that I think the Oilers were/are stocked with high end offensive talent and could afford to overplay.  But still it does set the market for young defensemen.  If we are willing to trade a Hanifan, we will demand a top line forward in return.  I don't want to trade Hanifan, but if that is what it takes to get a legitimate top line forward in here, then that's what we have to do.  Based on everything that has been said by Francis and Peters, Fleury is ready to make the jump.   So we really only need 1-2 bottom pairing defensemen to round out the roster.  I for one cannot wait to see how June unfolds.  I anticipate us looking a lot different.  And do not rule out a trade for a top-4 defenseman.  Everyone is focusing on forwards, but there will be more defensemen available than forwards, and it would be nice to field 6 top-4 pairing defensemen. And it may be a pre-cursor to trading Hanifan or Faulk for that top-line scorer we desparately need.

 

On a completely unrelated topic, I have been watching the IIHF worlds pretty closely.  Hanifan looks like the best US defenseman and the top PP QB.  Was also watching the Sweden/Germany match and saw Elias Lindholm being helped off the ice after a nasty slash to the calf from a German player.  I hope it is just a muscle injury, but he was down for quite awhile.  That said, he and Rask were looking really good.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

On a completely unrelated topic, I have been watching the IIHF worlds pretty closely.  Hanifan looks like the best US defenseman and the top PP QB.  Was also watching the Sweden/Germany match and saw Elias Lindholm being helped off the ice after a nasty slash to the calf from a German player.  I hope it is just a muscle injury, but he was down for quite awhile.  That said, he and Rask were looking really good.

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/videos/breaking-22-year-old-nhler-carried-off-the-ice-after-ugly-slash-at-world-championship

 

Video of Lindholm slash.

 

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24 minutes ago, JMURaptor said:

 

Looks to me like a classic ACL.  I say that because it hit on the outside of the knee, pressing it in slightly.  Classic way to blow an ACL, along with the fact that the stick nailed the tendon in the right place.

 

Just a guess.  I *EDIT*ing HATE these tournaments.  The Canes have had no luck at all at them.

 

Now, if they don't announce ACL surgery, you can expect the Eric Staal pattern, i.e. a non-surgical route is basically a year off.  If surgery, still count out this year.  He'd be "back" around November 1, but useless for the season, maybe even a detriment.

 

I think we are looking at a year long injury.

 

*EDIT* these marginal players.  I am so steamed right now.

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If Lindy's prognosis is marginal, RF is definitely going to be in the market for an additional forward. 

 

I'm with you fellers on hating these tournaments.  They are fun to watch, but it's hard to hold my breath for that long.

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Video for me was really pixelated, not sure if it's a rough video or if I'm having connection issues.

 

I can't tell what happened it looked like a strong slash to the back of the knee. I'm hoping it just hurt like a mother because optimistically I can't see how he'd tear anything important without severe, abnormal contortion of the knee. 

 

I understand the Olympics, its the best of the best and I understand the players wanting to be there. The frickin World's though? No, I don't get it and I won't get it. The World's are a watered down Olympics that are kind of like Little League giving everyone a trophy. Oh, you didn't make the olympic roster? Don't worry we'll get you into the World's eventually.

Edited by legend-1

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1 hour ago, wxray1 said:

 

Looks to me like a classic ACL.  I say that because it hit on the outside of the knee, pressing it in slightly.  Classic way to blow an ACL, along with the fact that the stick nailed the tendon in the right place.

 

Just a guess.  I *EDIT*ing HATE these tournaments.  The Canes have had no luck at all at them.

 

Now, if they don't announce ACL surgery, you can expect the Eric Staal pattern, i.e. a non-surgical route is basically a year off.  If surgery, still count out this year.  He'd be "back" around November 1, but useless for the season, maybe even a detriment.

 

I think we are looking at a year long injury.

 

*EDIT* these marginal players.  I am so steamed right now.

 SB Nation Yesterday

 

"You may recall that in 2013, Eric Staal suffered a bad knee injury in a collision with Vancouver’s Alex Edler in the World Championships, but thankfully, Lindholm’s injury appears to be minor. He is expected to play on Monday against the United States. "

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34 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

 SB Nation Yesterday

 

"You may recall that in 2013, Eric Staal suffered a bad knee injury in a collision with Vancouver’s Alex Edler in the World Championships, but thankfully, Lindholm’s injury appears to be minor. He is expected to play on Monday against the United States. "

 

OK, OK.  I admit it.  I am extremely FATALISTIC when it comes to these tournaments.   :Aarrg: I always go for worst case.  I firmly believe the E. Staal situation set this franchise back years.  The injuries directly lead to slow starts in the following season.  And we know where that goes...

 

Glad to hear Lindy is feeling good enough to skate.  Now, I will continue to hold my breath.

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