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Off-Season Talk 2017

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2 hours ago, MinJaBen said:

 

I'm not blaming him for the tank, I'm blaming him for the regression. Look at his numbers of the last four years....they are in steady decline and not fantastic anyway. He is just not worth the assets that are going to be asked.

 

 

 

Im not in the for or against Skog, although I have said before I would rather have a number 1 C if I had to choose.  Looking at Skog's stats, compared to his teammates, he has had a fairly comparable season to those around him.  Avalanche had 5, 60+ point scorers in 13-14, Had 6, 50 point scorers in 14-15 (in which he was tied for the most), 15-16 is where the O took a big loss with O'Reilly, Tanguay, and Iginla out of the picture where they had 4 50 point scorers and Skog was 2nd to Duchene, and 16-17 1, 50 point scorer and(Mackinnon) 1, 40 point scorer (Duchene).  Much like a former center who had a rough time after his best linemates left, I feel like Skog and Duchene (Duchene's numbers have about the same correlation over the time period) had the same luck over the past 2 seasons.  MD and Skog are seeing the best defenders, best shut down lines, & all the attention all the time.  Unlike 3 years ago when they had other 50+ point scorers that other teams had to plan against.  Again not advocating either way just wanted to point out some possible contributing factors. 

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I tend to be of the "you never know what might happen" school of thought, I am also a big believer in getting a guy when his value is down, but despite that, I really can't imagine Francis even quickly glancing in Evander Kane's general direction. Francis values character, and fitting in with the team. He's on record as saying that the single most important thing he wants in a player is that he wants to be here and buys into what we are doing. After living through one malcontentski, I'd be shocked if he goes there.

 

As to the ongoing Duchene and Landseskog thing. I think it fair to say that both have downside, and as such Colorado will not move them for the glorious price they've been holding out for. Both of them are considerations in my view only if they are relative values. Neither one rose above the muck in the disaster that was the Avs this year. And the fact that not only did they both under-perform, but were critical cogs in an embarrassingly bad wheel, should drop their value.

 

Duchene did post a reprehensible plus minus this year, and not great last year either. However, three years ago, he was #2 on the team. Duchene should also be a lower price because he only has two years left on his deal. Personally, I'm OK with the two years. People don't want to get into the "crazy" UFA market and get stuck with bad long term deals, so this gives us a couple of years to decide on Duchene and see which, if any, of our prospects step up. Also, Duchene and Skinner would be UFA's in the same year. We can trade one, or pick. We can always re-sign Duchene if he ended up being the man. He is not the prototypical big, two way first line center. But good luck getting that guy drafting #12 or in the UFA market, or a trade. Teams don't tend to give them up.

 

What I'm saying, is that baring some kind of massive trade: Faulk for a guy with 1C potential for instance, we are not getting a top 20 1C. Not happening. Last time I remember it happening was Johanssen to Nashville, and that took Nashville trading Seth Jones.

 

If we want a guy who can at least line up at IC with a straight face, Duchene is our most apparent option.

 

Landeskog is the captain of a joke of a team. Despite his willingness to hit, he has been on the wrong end of his team in plus/minus for 3 plus years now. His .46 ppg good for a max projection of 37.6 points last year, is bad even on that horrid team. His long contract can actually be seen as a negative. If this guy is actually on the decline, that will be the kind of contract that people worry about with UFA's. All of this is not to say he can't rebound, but that he should not fetch a huge return.

 

To me, both Duchene, and Landeskog carry risks that should lower their value. Both because they were central pieces of a horror show team, and each for the reasons listed also.

 

Both then, need to be had for fair if not value prices.

 

But, if that can be done, both could excel in a new environment on a young and rising team. If not, move on.

 

Edited by remkin
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4 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

I doubt very seriously that either Duchene or Landeskog will ever wear a Canes sweater.

Anyone visit Canes Country this afternoon? Do so if you need something to lighten your day, and look over the proposal there for Landeskog, and don't stroke out!! Seriously, if Sakic expects the type of return mentioned there, and GMRF capitulates, one or both of these two GM's need psychiatric evaluation? 

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22 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

".....For the Canes, this would likely be a 2017 first round pick, Noah Hanifin, Jake Bean, and a 2017 second round pick (which the Canes have three of), plus possibly a late round 2017 or 2018 pick."

 

:rofl:

 

JR doesn't live here anymore.

 

The article talks about how the price has increased since the Avs fell in the draft lottery.  How does that work?

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46 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

 

JR doesn't live here anymore.

 

The article talks about how the price has increased since the Avs fell in the draft lottery.  How does that work?

 

Well, maybe it's not really because the Avs fell in the draft lottery, maybe the price has increased because after Sakic's initial demand, Landy's performance the rest of the season actually went downhill.  Unh, wait a minute . . .

Edited by LakeLivin
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Has Joe, or rather the fan-pundits, been taking part of some Colorado Mother Nature?

Edited by wxray1

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Moving on from making a trade with word volume, like I said, I doubt we are giving up Faulk, Slavin, Pesce, or Hanifin anytime soon when we just signed a goalie that can solidify a rebuild from the back end out for years.  Forget Colorado.

 

Francis is a cherry picker, while being very calculated.

 

Fleury will likely be here next year, and Jake Bean is the best prospect we have in the system, IMO.

 

We are set on D for years if Darling pans out. 

Edited by coastal_caniac
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I don't follow much around the league. I catch stuff here and there. Thought I saw Isles offered Tavares 8 years and 80 million and he still wasn't sure. If that's the case, you wonder if they'll listen in trade offers, especially if this is his last year. I know, it's a even way more of a long shot than Dutch, Skog or Mac... but it's certainly entertaining to think about. 

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1 hour ago, super_dave_1 said:

JR doesn't live here anymore.

 

The article talks about how the price has increased since the Avs fell in the draft lottery.  How does that work?

It works only in the Bizarro World of Joe Sakic.

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18 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

Has Joe, or rather the fan-pundits, been taking part of some Colorado Mother Nature?

Apparently, and so much so that they're changing the old saying to "Don't Sakic that thing, my friend..."

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Francis will only trade for Duchene or Landeskog if their price is relatively low (not low but value). Since this is not likely, I agree that it will not likely happen. But if Sakic is really set on moving one or both, (and it's going to be tough for him to go into next year without making some major changes...and who else is he going to move if not one of them), then his price could drop and if it does, we could make a deal.

 

It will be interesting to see if Francis can use the cherry pick method with the expansion draft and get what we need. If he can, then great. But he may have to alter that at least once and make at least one splash, even if it's out of his modus operandi to this point.

Edited by remkin

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9 minutes ago, remkin said:

 if Sakic is really set on moving one or both

This is really the crux of it. If he is, he's gonna have to drop his price. A TD has come and gone and nobody wanted (or thought they needed) either of them badly enough to pay whatever nutzo price Joe was asking. I'm unconvinced he is actually determined to move both, but like you said, he pretty much has to from a cap perspective.

 

Of course, that's also why he has to drop his price. Top, established D aren't going to save him much money, and whether it's Pesce, Slavin or Hanifin, they're gonna have to get paid after next season, so same problem. 

 

Rebuilding is painful (as we know all too well), but the longer he waits the more painful it's going to be. Indications so far, based on the returns he wants, are that he's not thinking realistically about what he needs to do. It might just be that the big headline out of Denver this off-season is "Sakic Fired." 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I don't have cement shoes attached to Landeskog or Duchene.  My thoughts are to stay as far away from anything to do with losing, which is Colorado.  A franchinse in disarray and we aren't looking to go back there or anything about that, at least I hope so. Negative waves man.

 

Stay Away GMRF.

 

I bet he will.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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9 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

I don't have cement shoes attached to Landeskog or Duchene.  My thoughts are to stay as far away from anything to do with losing, which is Colorado.  A franchinse in disarray and we aren't looking to go back there or anything about that, at least I hope so. Negative waves man.

 

Stay Away GMRF.

 

I bet he will.

If we don't get Gabe I'm okay with it, I just think he's been really misused in CO primarily because Sakic was more interested in getting butts in the seats than in developing talent. His hiring of Roy proved that for me. Patrick was great in the crease but that doesn't negate that he's a showboat hothead with no business behind the bench. Skog, meanwhile, was a rookie of the year and has shown that he has the grit and gifts to play at a high level in this league--plus he plays a 200-foot game. Just seems like a great fit for BP's ethic/system, far more than Duchene.

 

In fact, if the report I saw is correct and Iginla still wants to play, I'd go after him too, waaaay before Duche. He's an FA, another RW, a strong veteran presence, he can still bang, he still wants a Cup, and we could do a one-year deal at about one-fifth the price, buying Gauthier a year in the AHL. If we can get Stalberg back, sure, by all means do it. But if not, Jarome would bring weight to the third/fourth and to the PP that we currently lack. Imagine having Scog on the first PP unit and Iggy on the second. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I mentioned this on the IIHF thread.  I watched the US/Sweden game closely yesterday.  Skog has big-time "sandpaper" and goes to the dirty areas very willingly.  He's not Connor McDavid, but based on what I saw he can still skate and handle the puck.  This is EXACTLY the type of player our team needs.  Not to mention, he also seemed to have chemistry with Lindholm and Rask.  They are Sweden's best line.

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12 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Apparently, and so much so that they're changing the old saying to "Don't Sakic that thing, my friend..."

Watch it, you may have gone one step over the line.

 

50 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Not for what Smokin Crack Joe wants. 

Don't bogart that crack pipe.

 

Apologies to all millennials and clueless who may not be in on the jokes. :)

Edited by wxray1
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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

If we don't get Gabe I'm okay with it, I just think he's been really misused in CO primarily because Sakic was more interested in getting butts in the seats than in developing talent. His hiring of Roy proved that for me. Patrick was great in the crease but that doesn't negate that he's a showboat hothead with no business behind the bench. Skog, meanwhile, was a rookie of the year and has shown that he has the grit and gifts to play at a high level in this league--plus he plays a 200-foot game. Just seems like a great fit for BP's ethic/system, far more than Duchene.

 

In fact, if the report I saw is correct and Iginla still wants to play, I'd go after him too, waaaay before Duche. He's an FA, another RW, a strong veteran presence, he can still bang, he still wants a Cup, and we could do a one-year deal at about one-fifth the price, buying Gauthier a year in the AHL. If we can get Stalberg back, sure, by all means do it. But if not, Jarome would bring weight to the third/fourth and to the PP that we currently lack. Imagine having Scog on the first PP unit and Iggy on the second. 

 

For many years (a Cup does this), Colorado sold out.  Then it dropped during hard times (sound familiar?).  Joe pulls a few short term stunts and gets a near sellout year again (and they made the playoffs, despite Roy's antics).  But it was all for short term.  I don't know if the guy has the vision a GM needs.

 

Like you said, "Sakic Fired!" may just happen.  It will be hard though.  The collective man crush on Joe is very strong in them hills.

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8 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

Watch it, you may have gone one step over the line.

 

Don't bogart that crack pipe.

 

Apologies to all millennials and clueless who may not be in on the jokes. :)

 

Isn't that one toke over the line?

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Just now, super_dave_1 said:

 

Isn't that one toke over the line?

 

Yes, trying to keep it subtle.  The Man may be reading. :)  But I guess our cover is blown, what with all this talk of crack pipes and what have you.

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Just now, wxray1 said:

 

Yes, trying to keep it subtle.  The Man may be reading. :)  But I guess our cover is blown, what with all this talk of crack pipes and what have you.

 

One toke over the line sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sittin' downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

 

Brewer and Shipley

 

All the yutes need to check this out if they don't get it

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