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Off-Season Talk 2017

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I"m no expert on the Kovalchuk situation, but hearing them talk about this on XM, they were saying it would have to be a "sign and trade".  According to one article I read his contract was terminated with his retirement, but NJ is the only team that can sign him unless all 31 teams (including NJ) allow it. So, while he's not under contract, NJ controls his rights this year. But I think they have to make a new contract. If NJ can sign him for a more reasonable number, especially if it has some term, say 3 years, who knows who might be interested?

 

In 2018 he can return without NJ's blessing due to an age out clause. So Kovalchuk has a little leverage there.

 

At first glance, it's hard to see Francis having an interest in a 35 yo Russian, who walked from his contract w/ NJ. But the guy did put up 78 points and 32 goals in 60 games in the KHL. We need offense. As with everything, it depends on price. As a rule this would really seem like a long shot, and probably is. But what if NJ signed him for $5 million/year for 3 years no NTC/NMC, and we could get him for a package of draft picks? Or if it was just a year and the price was even lower?

 

I still don't see it, but Francis is open to outside the box thinking. Still, and aging Russian malcontent could hit just a little too close to home, and doesn't really seem to fit the plan.

Edited by remkin

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

I was wondering when this oldie but goodie was going to hit the Hurricane rumor mill.

 

Spectors Hockey


 

 

 

I've been hearing quite a bit about Kovalchuk lately, with the Hurricanes being mentioned a few times. While it would be an exciting move, there are a couple of problems that I see.

 

Like, how much would we have to give up in the sign and trade? The article says 1 or 2 years at 5-6 million a year. That isn't horrible, since we've been talking about the same dollar amount for a longer term with Oshie. How much, though, are we going to have to give up in the trade? Probably our first, some other assorted picks (2nds, 3rds), and a good offensive prospect. I would assume that Gauthier and Roy are off the table, so who does that really leave? Kuokkanen, Saarela, Foegele, or maybe a few not so amazing prospects. I guess maybe his value could be less since the Devils pretty much have to trade him, kind of like players we talk about being available because of the expansion draft.

 

Also, Kovalchuk is already 34. While he has been fantastic in the past, that's bound to start going downhill soon. Plus, there were questions of his relationship with the Devils organization before he left. And then he jumped ship and left. We know that Francis is fully into all of the players being on board with the organization and its plan, and Kovalchuk doesn't seem like the kind of player that would instantly buy in.

 

And I would have assumed that he would want to go to an immediate Cup contender? Unless he will have no say in where he goes? I guess that all of this speculation really depends on whether or not anybody else thinks this is a viable option,or that it's just wishful thinking.

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I will say this. There is a certain advantage to either one year or a deal with no NTC/NMC:

 

This team needs about 1-2 years for our prime D prospects to come into their value, and 1-2 year to see what all of those good forward prospects are going to be. Right now we'd have to trade Faulk, or maybe Hanifin to get the right guy back. But in 2 years we could move Fleury or Bean, or Hanifin, or whomever seems most dispensable.

 

The problem we have is getting instant scoring without giving up a Faulk or Hanifin, is going to be tough.

 

If the price is right, Kovi could be a placeholder to provide instant offense while other pieces round into form.

Edited by remkin

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3 minutes ago, remkin said:

The problem we have is getting instant scoring without giving up a Faulk or Hanifin, is going to be tough.

 

I think we could grab Jakob Silfverberg from the Ducks. He very well could be an expansion draft casualty due to their defense and NMC carrying forwards. He wouldn't be cheap, but we could probably do it without losing any of our defenders or NHL players. Maybe our 1st and a 2nd round pick or Gauthier and a 2nd round pick. Silfverberg scored 23 goals and 49 points this past season, is big and a right shot player signed to a good contract for several more years. He'd be an ideal target.

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Silfverberg is an interesting option. Big guy who has hit 20 G two years in a row. Not much of a playmaker. A Swede, on a Northern European team like us. Just coming into his prime. Is he physical? That could make him the gritty guy who can score.

 

I still think we need a tad more points ultimately, but could be a nice addition.

 

Bring in Kovaluchuk for a year, and add Silvferberg both without giving up anything too prime? I'm just spitballing here.

 

I really don't want to trade Gauthier though. I'd go so far as to pretty much make him untouchable for now.

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28 minutes ago, remkin said:

I really don't want to trade Gauthier though. I'd go so far as to pretty much make him untouchable for now.

 

I have big question marks about whether or not he can think the game at NHL speed. If the Canes have a chance to use him as a trade option to bring in a guy that can be an important piece for the near term with an ability to still grow with the team, then I'd strongly consider moving him.

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Just now, MinJaBen said:

 

I have big question marks about whether or not he can think the game at NHL speed. If the Canes have a chance to use him as a trade option to bring in a guy that can be an important piece for the near term with an ability to still grow with the team, then I'd strongly consider moving him.

 

Time will tell. The thing for me at this point is the return vs. the potential would likely be too small. Like so many hypothetical trades, if someone is very high on him and would value him highly based on his World Juniors and Junior Hockey Playoffs, more than his #21 draft order, then maybe. My guess though, is that is not likely.

 

I see his upside much higher I guess, but even if I'm wrong, I'd want to give him a chance rather than trade him for low value now.

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Just read on a Devils speculation site that they would want a good, young, top-4 d-man for Kovalchuk (kinda like the Avs). The article also said that any draft pick in the deal would have to be for 2018, since Kovalchuk can't be re-signed until July 1st. Maybe we could do one of those "future consideration" type deals where we give them Fleury or another good d prospect, our first this draft, plus a bunch of lesser picks, then they sign and trade Kovalchuk to us? Don't really know much about "future consideration" deals, but it might be an option. Could also be like what people mention with Vegas, that teams could bribe them with picks to not take certain players, only kinda the opposite. They wouldn't be getting a huge impact guy in Fleury, but it would still be pretty good for them. Or we could just throw all of our 2018 picks at them alongside Fleury and hope they bite. Those picks will probably be worth less, since we should be in the playoffs, so it won't hurt us as much, but they might need a little extra because of that. I still doubt the deal would happen, but it would give us some good scoring at a position we are weak at, and it would give it to us immediately.

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Words like "bunch of" and "all" usually don't fly.   And RF seems even less willing to work that way.

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Does anybody realize that Kovalchuk is 34 and has been out of the NHL for years?  Francis isn't (nor should he) going to give up much to get him.  

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3 hours ago, MinJaBen said:

 

I think we could grab Jakob Silfverberg from the Ducks. He very well could be an expansion draft casualty due to their defense and NMC carrying forwards. He wouldn't be cheap, but we could probably do it without losing any of our defenders or NHL players. Maybe our 1st and a 2nd round pick or Gauthier and a 2nd round pick. Silfverberg scored 23 goals and 49 points this past season, is big and a right shot player signed to a good contract for several more years. He'd be an ideal target.

 

No way I give up that much for Silfverberg.  In a normal season he would be worth that.  The expansion draft exposer really lowers his value.  They can lose him for nothing or gain something. TBH LV would be a fool to take a pick to not take him.  At best, I would do a 1st rounder swap with the Ducks.  They'll move up 16 slots to get a replacement forward.  Canes keep a 1st rounder and with 2 great picks last year we can lower our prospect quality this year. Gauthier will be a great RW for us in 2 seasons.  

 

On a side note:  no to Kovalchuk.

 

2nd side note:  Rangers are talking about buying out Marc Staal to improve their D.  He would be a great 5th Dman.  And could be had cheap after the buy out.  Either teach up Fluery or McKeown.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Citizen_Quinn said:

Also, Kovalchuk is already 34.

This is the only number that matters. No thank you.

 

I can say this and still support getting Iginla because he wants a Cup, has played without interruption in the NHL, hasn't unexpectedly flown the coop on anybody (as far as I know), would be one-fifth the price, and a one-year deal.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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19 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

2nd side note:  Rangers are talking about buying out Marc Staal to improve their D.  He would be a great 5th Dman.  And could be had cheap after the buy out.  Either teach up Fluery or McKeown.

No thank you to any more Staals on this team. I'd rather get Hainsey back at 5 and let Fleury/McKeown compete for 6. Actually, I'd MOST like to just give Fleury or McKeown the 5 and let every remaining prospect compete for the 6, but the need for a strong start this year almost surely makes that moo.

 

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Edited by top-shelf-1

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4 hours ago, MinJaBen said:

Maybe our 1st and a 2nd round pick or Gauthier and a 2nd round pick.

I'm not giving Gauthier to anybody for anything, and judging by the look on RF's face when he put his hand on the kid's shoulder at the draft last year, he isn't either. He's the big banging winger we haven't had since Erik Cole, only bigger and--uh, bang-ier.

Edited by top-shelf-1
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5 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I'm not giving Gauthier to anybody for anything, and judging by the look on RF's face when he put his hand on the kid's shoulder at the draft last year, he isn't either. He's the big banging winger we haven't had since Erik Cole, only bigger and--uh, bang-ier.

 

That was minjaben quote about gauthier and a 2nd.  My part was a big no way!

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3 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

That was minjaben quote about gauthier and a 2nd.  My part was a big no way!

Fixed. Sorry--and thanks gocanes!

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Another Staal?   Let's just continue to move on.  Kovalchuk is 34 and is a proven quitter.  Nuf said.

 

 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I jumped into this latest Kovalchuk discussion late, and was beginning to think I was in The Twilight Zone there for awhile? Thanks to all that restored my faith in my feelings. Not sure how many pushing for him recall the feelings when he pulled up stakes and left his team and teammates high and dry, but no way, no how would I welcome a guy with those principles on this team.

 

Silfverberg from Ducks I'd love to see on our team, and it sure would be ironic to see Marc Staal here, but I'm also not really impressed by his play lately? A 5/6 spot could work, particularly for his ability to mentor the yutes.

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7 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Words like "bunch of" and "all" usually don't fly.   And RF seems even less willing to work that way.

 

:P Sorry, I should have been a little less vague! I didn't literally mean "bunch of" and "all." Mainly a couple of seconds and thirds. Further thought leads me to the conclusion that a deal like that is not only unrealistic, but also pretty bad for us. Age and being prone to quitting seem like even bigger turn offs for Francis than the price.

 

I'm all in on going for Silfverberg, but I was more interested in Niederreiter. He is a bit more physical than Silfverberg, and is 2 years younger. I haven't heard any rumors about him lately, though. Did I miss something happening in Minnesota that allows him to stay there?

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8 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

 

2nd side note:  Rangers are talking about buying out Marc Staal to improve their D.  He would be a great 5th Dman.

 

Oh hell no!!  Time for us to move on from the Staal family.

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I think it would be a foolish move on GMRF's part to just discard Kovalchuck because of his decision to "retire."  There is just too few talent available, and too many teams vying for an edge over the competition.  There are so many variables involved in trying to acquire him.

 

1. Market.  We have to determine who's available, and whether that player is a better candidate than Kovalchuck.  On the UFA front, the pickings are very slim.  The RW is a desperate need for Carolina and there isn't too many of them available.  TJ Oshie and Justin Williams are the only sensible options, with maybe a nod to Vanek.  I can't see Williams re-signing here, as I think he's likely to go to a legit cup contender.  After looking through the list of UFA's, I think Oshie's likely to be the most sought after forward available and likely to get the most money out of all the forwards available.  I know he's on the wishlist for a lot here, but I don't think it's realistic.  I think Kovalchuck is a better player than any other UFA.

 

As far as what's available on the trade front, we don't really know who's available and what costs are.  A name I've seen recently is Eberle, but with Edmonton in win-now mode, he's going to cost a roster player, a defenseman at that, likely Faulk, and I'm not going there.  Unless there's a legit #1 center available, I don't want to move any roster player.

 

2. Cost.  We first have to know what the Devils want in the deal.  I can't foresee any team giving up an A level prospect or a 1st rounder to acquire him.  No Fleury, Bean, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, or Roy, but I'd be comfortable with just about anything else.  If we could snag a good RD prospect in the draft, I'd give McKeown and a lesser pick.

 

Another cost factor would be how much Kovalchuck is asking.  If he only wants a couple years, fine.  If he only wants $5-6 million, fine.  But if he's asking for long term and/or high dollar amounts, then I'm out.

 

In conclusion, I think Kovalchuck is the most realistic option of known players available.  If he can be had for a 2yr/$6mil, that is a very low risk/high reward scenario for RF, so long as NJ isn't asking for too much.  We don't have too much information at this point though, and ultimately the market will determine what he gets.

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