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Off-Season Talk 2017

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(responding to PK17's post - meant to quote it...)

 

Bingo.  It's easy for some to look at the Penguins as a well-supported franchise but they were always near the bottom of the league and it took them 20 years to surpass 12000 in attendance*, that being after Mario was drafted.  After a run a playoff seasons it took them all of 2 missed seasons for attendance to drop below 12000 once again, and then Crosby was drafted.  Give that market 8 seasons of missed playoffs and no Lemieux/Jagr or Crosby/Malkin, and i strongly doubt they're bringing in 18000-19000 people.

 

* - I don't know their arena history - did they move into a larger arena at this time?

Edited by realmdrakkar

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Yes, Pittsburgh showed that a generally good hockey market will abandon a chronically bad team. Even more so Chicago, when they were bad.

 

Again, I'm not trying to argue the merits of our market, just the ability to draw UFA"s who might be drawn to the bigger markets for more exposure, possibly endorsement deals, etc. 

 

I think what really works against us is the combination of small market, empty building, and no sustained reputation for winning. If we can sell a guy on what we're building both on the ice and in the arena, I think we could draw someone who doesn't care about the actual market size.

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Well another damper on our ability to get talent cheap, they increased the cap to 75 million.

 

man the positive outlook on our ability to improve the team has really been kicked down a few notches.  We have a bunch more money to spend but it the talent wont come as cheap as I had hoped.

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Quick question for you guys. I have long liked Bobby Ryan of Ottaway, and see they've left him unprotected. He admittedly has a huge salary, and has not been scoring to that level, EXCEPT in playoffs, but what would he bring to our 1st line? just curious?

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10 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Quick question for you guys. I have long liked Bobby Ryan of Ottaway, and see they've left him unprotected. He admittedly has a huge salary, and has not been scoring to that level, EXCEPT in playoffs, but what would he bring to our 1st line? just curious?

 

At 30 and owed 37.25 million over 5 years, I pass. He can get to the 60-70 point range but only twice.  In his 9 full seasons he averages 51 points per season.  I don't know that he maintains that until he is 35.  He has averaged 24 goals a season but most of his point numbers are from his time in Anaheim.  I would do it if he had 2-3 years left but not at 5.

 

over the next 3 years our salary is going to go way up with 3 of 4 D horsemen, Aho, Lindholm, TT, and Skinner all needing re-signings.  Don't know that we can afford an under producing 7.5 million Ryan the last 2 years of his contract.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Quick question for you guys. I have long liked Bobby Ryan of Ottaway, and see they've left him unprotected. He admittedly has a huge salary, and has not been scoring to that level, EXCEPT in playoffs, but what would he bring to our 1st line? just curious?

 

Definitely the contract that makes me pause.  Five more years at 7.25 to 7.5 a year before it ends. I have little doubt he can return to form but at that price and length I would think we look elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

k, that's fair. Just wanted some thoughts.

 

Its the same reason I don't want to do a Brown or Gaborik from LA.  Yea we might get a lottery 1st rounder out of it but it will be detrimental in 3 years.  

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1 hour ago, KJUNKANE said:

k, that's fair. Just wanted some thoughts.

 

To piggy back off your thought.

 

how about Marian Hossa?

 

1. We love trading with Chicago 

2. He is owed a total of 4 million over the last 4 years, yes 1 million per year

3. He still scored 28 goals last season

4. If he retires, so what?  Are we ever going to get within 5 million of the cap ceiling?  No

5. We can get a good young player, Ryan Hartman.  Scored 19 goals last season.  Could play on Staal's left side.

6. A year or maybe 2 of Hossa would be a great bridge for Gauthier

7. Chicago always needs cap space 

8. We love to trade with Chicago

 

to Car

RW Hossa

LW Hartman (RFA next year)

 

To Chicago

Nordstrom (if not chosen) or Nestrasil's rights

Pittsburgh's 2nd

 

That could be at worst 20 goals addition if Hossa retires immediately or best case 45 goals addition. A pretty good deal IMO.  And would leave us enough assets / payroll to get a top center we want.  Hartman is an addition that is on par with our youth movement.

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42 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

 

To piggy back off your thought.

 

how about Marian Hossa?

. . .

 

Interesting thought. 

 

From TheHockeyNews:

Ryan Hartman 

6'0"  181 lbs  turns 23yo in Sept.

'16-'17:  76 games, 19g, 31p, +13

Assets:

Plays the game with a fair amount of aggression and grit. Is versatile enough to play either wing or center. Can put up good point totals, but is also a two-way presence. Can get opponents off their game.

 

 

I'm not familiar with Hartman but he sounds like he already is what we hope McGinn might eventually become.   Oh, and Hartman is actually a RW, which fits our team a lot better.  Hossa would need to waive his NMC to come to Carolina though, and what are the odds of that?

 

 
 

 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Love it also, but not sure Chicago does this deal, except it would provide some cap space. Speaking of that, I'd 1st heard Cap was going to remain the same, which worked wonders for us, then it went up!! Can we never catch a break?

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If we were Zona or LV, I doubt he would wave his nmc.  The fact that we have a good chance to make the playoffs with him and have a bunch of former teammates to tell him about us (like Darling) increases our chances.  No guarantee of course.  

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19 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Love it also, but not sure Chicago does this deal, except it would provide some cap space. Speaking of that, I'd 1st heard Cap was going to remain the same, which worked wonders for us, then it went up!! Can we never catch a break?

 

Well, looking on the bright side, we did catch a huge break with the expansion draft coming this year.  If it had happened next year we'd have been screwed.

Edited by LakeLivin

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11 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

Well, looking on the bright side, we did catch a huge break with the expansion draft coming this year.  If it had happened next year we'd have been screwed.

 

 

Is there a guarantee yet that there won't be a 32nd team added next season?  32 was the original number i saw.

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19 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

If we were Zona or LV, I doubt he would wave his nmc.  The fact that we have a good chance to make the playoffs with him and have a bunch of former teammates to tell him about us (like Darling) increases our chances.  No guarantee of course.  

 

Unfortunately (for us, lol) Hossa has 2 daughters, at least 1 of which is school age (6 yo?). Unless his family lives in Slovakia, I can't see him doing anything but winding his career down in Chicago.   

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6 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

Is there a guarantee yet that there won't be a 32nd team added next season?  32 was the original number i saw.

 

I doubt it's even possible for it to happen by next year. Seems like they'd have to start over with new proposals from interested candidates, and it took a couple of years for the process to play out for Vegas..

Edited by LakeLivin

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1 minute ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Is there a guarantee yet that there won't be a 32nd team added next season?  32 was the original number i saw.

We should hear about a team in Seattle, Im guessing 2 seasons from now.  The current GMs will happen to take at least 2 years to come down after this offseason.  Bettman is too stupid to do what was best for the league, move Zona to LV.  Now he will further divide the pot by adding another team.  It doesn't make any sense. Of course im happy in the back because if Zona would have moved, I know we would be next to move.  

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2 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Unfortunately (for us, lol) Hossa has 2 daughters, at least 1 of which is school age (6 yo?). Unless his family lives in Slovakia, I can't see him doing anything but winding his career down in Chicago.   

Given the excellent reputation of schooling in the area, this might be an ideal time for relocation at very early age, might it not?

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6 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Given the excellent reputation of schooling in the area, this might be an ideal time for relocation at very early age, might it not?

 

I guess anything is possible.  And I don't know for sure that his family lives in the US. His wife is also from Slovakia, so it's also possible that's where they maintain their "permanent" home. .

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We'll scratch the Hossa trade idea.  I wasn't aware of cap recapture program.  If he does retire, the Blackhawks will be penalized for front loading his contract, the difference in cap vs actual savings averaged over the remaining years he was signed.  Also, the Hawks fans gave it a resounding no.  Insulted even.  At this point, make the trade and pay Hossa under the table to retire.  Either way, learned something today.

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Some ideas for UFA signings, although unlikely:

 

RW 

Oshie.  Top UFA .  Will cost too much for too long for us.

Recycle vets, Vrbata, Justin Williams, and Eaves.  Williams and Vrbata are both 35 and older.  They still put up 24 and 20 goals, respectively. They may go for 1 year deals, maybe 2.  Eaves scored 32 goals but more than likely wants more term than GMRF wants to offer a 33 year old.

 

C

Someone mentioned Hanzal.  How much and how long is the 30 year old going to want? 4 million AAV is my guess for 3-4 years.  He scored 20 goals on a bad Zona team.  It wouldn't be a terrible sign if Staal was able to be traded when Aho is C ready.  

Sam Gagner. Was last season a fluke or has finally realized his talent.  50 points he put up. He is only 27, usually hovers in the low 40s for points and had a couple of off years.  Its hard to gauge him.  Could want a serious term and length.  5 million AAV over 5 years, but not sure anyone would do it. Averaging 70 games, 40 points, 14 goals and a -9 over his 10 year career.

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6 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Well another damper on our ability to get talent cheap, they increased the cap to 75 million.

 

man the positive outlook on our ability to improve the team has really been kicked down a few notches.  We have a bunch more money to spend but it the talent wont come as cheap as I had hoped.

editing here: Washington said they needed the cap to go up BY $4 million to keep Oshie. Did it only go up $2 million? Might still be tight. Oshie might still be out there. I just don't see why Oshie has to cost too much for us. We trade Cam or Eddie, that's $3 million more off our cap space. It's a bad example for obvious reasons, but we paid Semin $7 million/year years ago. It could be done. We've paid the money before. And before one can say, Semin was the example of why not to, he is the mega outlier. Oshie is not Semin. Heck, even Semin wasn't Semin. The guy utterly folded it in.

 

Now would he come here? Bigger question to me. Should we sign him if he'd come for not crazy money? Yes. How much is practically certain playoffs for the next 3-5 years, and not losing any players, picks or prospects worth?

 

I like Hossa, and would take him in a heartbeat for his salary, but also can't see him waive the NTC to come here. Maybe next year after he sees how good we are! But no, probably not then either.

Edited by remkin

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The craziest deal I would consider is:

 

getting Carter from LA. He is 60+ point per season guy.  Older but is owed 18.5 million over the next 5 years.  Which is pretty good for as much as he does.  They need offensive prospects.  McGinn, Roy, and next year's 1st?  

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