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2017 Expansion Draft

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1 hour ago, super_dave_1 said:

 

But doesn't a qualifying offer equal "under contract"?  I seem to remember conversation about Dahlbeck and a qualifying offer to satisfy that requirement.

 

Either way, I don't see the RFAs as having hand.

 

 

I've been under the impression the qualifying offer wasn't enough, which is why i was never impressed with the theory that all RF had to do was qualify them.  I'm just a punter with no inside info though, so i could definitely be wrong.  Agreed, though, i don't see them having hand either.  Regardless, i do feel RF will get this team through the expansion draft in remarkable fashion.

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2 hours ago, remkin said:

I am curious to see how Francis handles and manipulates this expansion situation, but oddly tired of trying to figure the dang thing out.

 

I am curious to see how Francis handles and manipulates this expansion situation, and I don't waste my time trying to figure it out.

 

I don't know how you guys do it.  I can't stand looking at all the wares and not being able to have any of them.   Just let me know who we have when the smoke clears.

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3 hours ago, hag65 said:

 

I am curious to see how Francis handles and manipulates this expansion situation, and I don't waste my time trying to figure it out.

 

I don't know how you guys do it.  I can't stand looking at all the wares and not being able to have any of them.   Just let me know who we have when the smoke clears.

Seriously. Life's too short.

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16 hours ago, hag65 said:

I don't waste my time trying to figure it out.

 

What else is there to do? An expansion draft doesn't come along very often and Francis has spent three seasons putting the org in a position to make moves during this one.

This may be the most interesting time of the entire off-season

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

 

What else is there to do? An expansion draft doesn't come along very often and Francis has spent three seasons putting the org in a position to make moves during this one.

This may be the most interesting time of the entire off-season

Seriously OBXer, not only the "entire off season", but enjoy an event(expansion draft) which doesn't happen often. For those statisticians amongst us, you all should be salivating thinking of all the possibilities? I'll just be glad to go back into PNC arena on draft day, to see how that unfolds.   

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3 hours ago, OBXer said:

 

What else is there to do? An expansion draft doesn't come along very often and Francis has spent three seasons putting the org in a position to make moves during this one.

This may be the most interesting time of the entire off-season

 

Unfortunately there isn't anything else to do.

 

I don't begrudge you guys enjoying it.  I'm glad you like it, I'm just not built that way.  I love the season, just hate the off-season, especially when other teams are still playing and we haven't been for so long.  

 

Jealous of other teams I guess.   I can't stand how Pittsburgh has had not one, not two, not three, but four players (Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby, Malkin) better than a single player the Canes or Whalers have ever had, and there is no amount of talking about it, blaming management, saying what a GM should do that will ever change that fact.  You just have to suck really really bad and/or get really really lucky to ever get one of those.  And I have to see signs in Pittsburgh "One for the thumb" and they should really be wondering how they only have 4 cups when they have had all those guys for all those years, it really has been a mismanaged franchise frankly to choke that bad.

 

Yeah, we are going to get Stamkos.  Or better yet, lets trade for McDavid.  As always, we can talk until the end of time but the best we can hope for is a bottom 15 #1 center, or maybe we just did the incredibly lucky thing and Aho becomes a perennial Hart trophy candidate.  Just one time it would be nice to have one of those guys.

 

<rant off>

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1 hour ago, hag65 said:

 

Unfortunately there isn't anything else to do.

 

I don't begrudge you guys enjoying it.  I'm glad you like it, I'm just not built that way.  I love the season, just hate the off-season, especially when other teams are still playing and we haven't been for so long.  

 

Jealous of other teams I guess.   I can't stand how Pittsburgh has had not one, not two, not three, but four players (Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby, Malkin) better than a single player the Canes or Whalers have ever had, and there is no amount of talking about it, blaming management, saying what a GM should do that will ever change that fact.  You just have to suck really really bad and/or get really really lucky to ever get one of those.  And I have to see signs in Pittsburgh "One for the thumb" and they should really be wondering how they only have 4 cups when they have had all those guys for all those years, it really has been a mismanaged franchise frankly to choke that bad.

 

Yeah, we are going to get Stamkos.  Or better yet, lets trade for McDavid.  As always, we can talk until the end of time but the best we can hope for is a bottom 15 #1 center, or maybe we just did the incredibly lucky thing and Aho becomes a perennial Hart trophy candidate.  Just one time it would be nice to have one of those guys.

 

<rant off>

hag, my exact rant every year for the past 7 and change. I'm feeling your pain.

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That's been my frustration with this franchise...when the generational players come along, we suck, but not bad enough to be in a position to get them...the years we really suck and get the higher draft pick, the pickings are good, but not necessarily great after #2/3.  Meanwhile, teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago and Edmonton sucked for the better part of a decade at a time and hoarded all those top 3 picks...and now they're powerhouses (or in Edmonton's case, on the cusp).  

 

It infuriates me that repeated suckitude gets rewarded like that...while mediocre suckitude on our part just gets us on the fringes every damn year!

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14 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

It infuriates me that repeated suckitude gets rewarded like that...while mediocre suckitude on our part just gets us on the fringes every damn year!

I hear this and all the other complaints about our interminable non-playoff status, I really do. But let's review where all the teams that most recently tanked to get that "top pick"--and more important, those in "traditional hockey markets" which have spent freely to acquire talent, are:

Edmonton: Out.

Leafs: Out.

Sabres: Never in.

Canadiens: Embarrassed.

Jets: Ha.

Canucks: OMG.

 

My point is that the only sure way to get the team you want is to build it from the ground up. That means doing everything RF is: Identifying the guys whose talent and values align with the org's, developing the sh*t out of them, casting off those who lose their way, and rewarding the guys who earn their keep.

 

The evolution this org has already made - from tolerating poor performance from its supposed stars to nobody being "the" star and everybody being only as good as their last game - THAT is what produces teams that consistently make the playoffs over long periods of time, and rosters that play for each other--because everyone on them has survived the culling process and they want their hard work to get the ultimate reward.

 

The team JR assembled that won the Cup just happened to develop by December into the perfect mix of guys who had worked hard with various orgs and found the determination within themselves to come together in a long fine flash. But that's lightning-in-a-bottle stuff; it's just not going to happen on a regular basis. RF's process increases the odds in favor of long-term consistency and annual playoff berths, and what I'm most excited about this summer isn't speculation over who we might get (that's no slam on those who enjoy that kinda thing), but actually watching everything unfold.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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top, love the way you see and have seen this evolution. Permit me to add a brief PS to your view, and tell me if I'm seeing correctly in this view.

 

Seems to me that what has contributed as much to the repeated fan base frustration with our team as anything was what you've deemed "lightening in a bottle" aspect, as well as the general NAIVETY of the group in general, me more specifically. I do not suggest this as an insult, but certainly, in my case for sure, lacking a hockey background, winning that 1st Cup so easily spoiled us to think that a dynasty was not unrealistic. Additionally, being an ACC fanatic(of which I have no claim), and Duke or UNC supporter(NCSU or Wake also), championships are a given, at least in basketball. Add to that being in the division  we were in, affectionately  known as the "Southleast", also added to the fallacy, because it was easy to win in that division.

 

Thus, it appears to me, that this fan base, by and large, is just now coming to terms with the difficulty it entails to build a "solid program" which allows repeat playoff hockey for years. For me, it's been most frustrating to go thru about 5 months of spotty news about our team, while we are being bombarded by other team news, almost as if our faces are being rubbed in it.

 

Thus, I guess what I'm trying to say is I take my hat off to you, and several others who keep reminding me at least that the journey , though bleak appearing at times is necessary to reach the goal we all desire come back to PNC arena.

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I'd suggest that the truth may lie somewhere in between the stink to be great, and develop what you've got and coach them up.

 

Just drafting that top 3 pick superstar is not enough, but it makes things much easier, mainly because you have to have a couple of them and that's the most sure way of getting them: Pittsburgh picked Crosby #1, Malkin #2, MAF #1 and Jordan Staal #2. I think you can debate Staal and MAF, but Pittsburgh is obviously not where they are without Crosby and Malkin. Chicago: Kane #1, Toews #3, are the same thing.

 

Also, while Toronto and Edmonton might be out, they are just getting started, especially Edmonton, who hasn't even found room for Jessie Puljarvi yet.

 

That said, other teams have gotten lucky with late first rounders, and even later rounders, and have been very good. While the Kings did draft Drew Doughty #2, the rest of their past and present core came without any other top 5 picks: Dustin Brown #13, B Boyle #26, A Kopitar #11, Quick rd 3.

 

The Ducks are simiilar. Getslaf #19, Corey Perry #21, C Fowler #12, really only the now traded B Ryan was #2 overall in the top 5 even.

 

But the Kings did get Daughty and hit on Kopitar. The Ducks did hit on Perry and Getslaf. They still have players of that caliber. They need those guys to have that success, even if they didn't get them at the top of the draft.

 

There is legitimacy to the frustration that we've not gotten bad enough to grab that super elite top forward at the tip top of the draft. No one wants to get that bad when the time comes, the mere mention of it draws fire. Fine, but then we don't get to pick that can't miss elite guy. I don't even just mean McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, we we also not bad enough to get:  Marner, Drouin, Tkachuk, Dylan Strome, etc.

 

This is the sentiment behind my always wanting to trade up in the draft, but also the reason it's so hard to do. Other GM's also realize how valuable those guys are.

 

You can get guys other ways though. Jeff Carter and Marion Hossa were huge UFA additions to LA and Chicago. Now injured, but the traded for Ryan Johanssen is a big part of Nashville, and so on. Artemi Panerin via Russia. And I feel that the time is now for Francis to pull this level off.

 

I guess I'm saying that developing talent and drafting well are critical pieces for success for sure. At some point though, you just have to get at least a couple of guys that play at that top level also. Personally, I think we may have gotten lucky with Aho, and now our top #5 pick Lindholm is possibly about to be that, and then there's Skinner. I think that the Canes have drafted really really well given our lack of top 4 picks frankly, and the

prospect pool is deep.

 

So, if Francis can find us a guy to make us competitive this year, and at least a couple more, guys like Gauthier, Roy, Bean, Fleury, Kuokkanen, Smallman, Foegle, and who knows who else, will be coming up to keep it going even as our future draft order drops.

Edited by remkin

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Put me down as someone who thinks that there's a very real chance that Aho turns out to be "elite".   And I think we tend to overlook Skinner just a bit; he may still not have hit his peak. 

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45 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

Put me down as someone who thinks that there's a very real chance that Aho turns out to be "elite".   And I think we tend to overlook Skinner just a bit; he may still not have hit his peak. 

 

I think Skinner can find some more assists and get his points higher. It's hard to project much more than 38 goals, but maybe.

 

I completely agree about Aho, and we're not alone. Both Tripp and John have tagged him future star. Trip said Superstar.

 

As I've opined I really think Lindholm is ready to break into that too. The way he looked in the back 2/3 of the year just built till March when goals started coming, right into the Worlds where he scored and looked dang good doing it.

 

Aho, Lindholm and Skinner could each put up 65 points next year realistically.

Edited by remkin

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All of which is why I downplay getting the number one pick. There have been too many extremely low picks that have put up superstar numbers, and no lack of supposed be-all end-alls who never did.

 

At this level, the line between elite and average is more about the individual's motivation and the org's ability to develop him than some analyst's conjecture about how good he might be. If (as reported) we're doing our due diligence regarding their work ethic, attitude, and skill level, there's no reason we don't have as good a chance (if not a better one) of drafting the next Zetterberg as anyone else.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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On 5/27/2017 at 0:34 PM, KJUNKANE said:

in my case for sure, lacking a hockey background, winning that 1st Cup so easily spoiled us to think that a dynasty was not unrealistic.

I don't think it's naiveté, KJUN. I just think comparing pro sports and college sports is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

For example, your conclusion that winning the 1st Cup was easy. I can see how it would seem that way to some fans, but remember, this organization was Cupless not only for its first 10 years in NC, but for three years before that in Hartford under this ownership, and for 15 more under its original owners. College teams, meanwhile, don't change cities and owners, and, especially when you're talking about hoops in the Carolinas, fans tend to stick with their teams because they went to school there.

 

Compare that to a non-native sport like hockey. It's really the perfect analogy in reverse: Carolina sports fans will stick with a basketball team in tough times the same way Canadian hockey fans stick with theirs.

 

Now, on top of these general truths, let's think about RF's specific situation. Think about the fact that, even when you subtract his years with Pittsburgh, he has been with this org 29 years--six years longer than its owner. As a Canadian who is among the best who ever laced 'em up, he understands the game, the league, and its growth on a level even PK cannot. He has patiently bided his time and paid his dues to get the same opportunity to achieve the level of success in a management role that he did on the ice, which is why I have zero patience for those who think turning this org around from the mess JR left it in was a simple two- or three-year project that only required "getting the right coach." Please.

 

If RF believes deeply enough in this org's potential in this market to give essentially his whole career to it, and to commit not to finding a quick fix but to the hard work of building for the long term, I think the least we can give him as fans is our support--and the deference he has already earned through the moves and success he and BP have achieved thus far. Nobody (other than those who really don't understand the dynamics of pro sports) ever thought this would be easy, let alone quick.

Edited by top-shelf-1
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While I agree top, and 2nd AWAC's thought, I think if you allow me, if I'm an average NC hockey fan, I have no awareness of this team's struggles pre 2002.  What happened in Hartford just as well have been on the moon! My personal initial introduction to hockey in 1997,even though I did take in a few college games while I lived in Denver for 5 yrs, was a big fat snort that the sport could exist in No Carolina? When the team finally ended up in Raleigh in 1999, I went to a few games taking our church youth group, and instantly got hooked.

 

So, as I stated, appreciation for the trials and tribulations of which you speak are all relative, as so much in life is. Based again on my NARROW view, this team came into existence in 1997, 5ys later, 3 years after moving to its permanent home in Raleigh, competed in the Stanley Cup finals. Then, 5yrs later, not only competed for, but won the ultimate prize. Thus my statement, this journey was deceptively easy.

 

Your comment about difference between college and pro sports, and being a fan of each being vastly different is right on point, for the reasons you expound on, but the point I was making was what I believe to be the difficulty this team seems to have attracting and solidifying a Fan Base, let alone RF's vs PK's ability to run the team.

 

Finally, I also believe local fans, not blessed with having grown up with the sport, are maturing in their appreciation of it, and attendance in the coming years will reflect this. 

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The one unique thing we have in this area is that the Hurricanes can unite fans that would not normally cheer for the same team.  College sports, you have UNC, NCSU, and Duke.  In pro football, you have the Panthers, Redskins, Cowboys and Steelers.  In baseball you have the Braves, Orioles, Yankees, etc...

 

In hockey, sure you have lots of transplant fans.  But once the NCAA basketball tournament, there is a giant sucking sound in the sports schedule.  People are thirsting for a team to root for..  In the few years where the hurricanes are good, the bandwagon swells VERY quicky and that thirst is quenched.  If we have sustained success, we will get a sustained fan base.  Look at what has happened in Nashville.  WE can do the same here, but it requires us to field a team built to win year in and year out.  For the first time, I think we have the pieces in place to do just that.  The question is, can we break through?

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On 5/25/2017 at 6:13 PM, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I've been under the impression the qualifying offer wasn't enough, which is why i was never impressed with the theory that all RF had to do was qualify them.  I'm just a punter with no inside info though, so i could definitely be wrong.  Agreed, though, i don't see them having hand either.  Regardless, i do feel RF will get this team through the expansion draft in remarkable fashion.

 

The only position where the qualifying offer is enough is goalie.  Even with a qualifying offer, a skater must have a signed contact to be exposed ala Dalbeck.

Edited by ironman87

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19 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

I have no awareness of this team's struggles pre 2002

I get that; it's why I provided it. :thumbsup: 

 

It's also one of the things the org could be doing a much better job of using as a marketing tool. When the house is nearly full on opening night, I'd love to see about a 10-minute, highlight-filled documentary on the big screen titled, "The Story of YOUR Carolina Hurricanes." Get a bonafide documentarian to assemble it, and make it heavy on Ronnie, especially on his time in Hartford, his return after Pittsburgh, and taking the Canes to their first Final. They didn't call him Franchise for nothing, but there's a whole new generation of fans who know little or nothing about any of that. The Canes need to push their history and "create a legend" that fans can identify with, in order to build value and fan loyalty. 

 

Without that, it's easy for fans to think, as you did, that the Cup was a cakewalk and Raleigh was poised to have another perennial winner. With it, there's no telling how many fans, once they understood the struggle hockey faces to succeed in a non-native market and the rarity of dynasties in the game, would re-commit to ensure the success of the Triangle's only pro team. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Because of the issue with Hartford and the Whalers name, it does separate the Canes from a lot of the organization's past.  I'd love to see a "wall of fame" area in the arena that featured the Whaler days.

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48 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Does anybody know who owns the rights to market the Hartford Whalers name?

 

I thought it was the city of Hartford, but I'm not at all sure about it.

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I just looked it up and ran across this interesting article, but it says 'There has always been some mystery around who owns the rights to the Whalers mark. What is known is that the National Hockey League (NHL) allowed companies to start using and producing the logo again in 2009.'

 

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/20150413/PRINTEDITION/304109980/18-years-after-departure-hartford-whalers-brand-still-a-money-maker

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