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rocheccw

Free Agency Frenzy or Fizzle

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IMO either FA signings or a deal must happen.  Even a combination is ok to get the scoring power needed.  RF can play the patient game but MANY fans, particularly those shelling out ticket $$$, will be highly frustrated if he does nothing.  This franchise (fans and players) are ready.  Is he?  We'll find out in part on Saturday at latest.

 

There are FA parts out there that can bring significant help.  If he doesn't want to deal players, then he must get those guys as FA.  Doing nothing shouldn't even be in the back of his mind.

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11 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Won't allow me to open?

Thats wierd, I clicked it again for validation.  For ease, Mr. Custance says:

 

Lots of interest in Patrick Marleau coming off 27-goal season. Toronto, Anaheim, NYR, SJ, Carolina, Nashville, LA all in the mix.

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41 minutes ago, Manwolf said:

 Is he?

I don't think your coach gets away with saying "what we need isn't going to come from what we have" in the season post-mortem presser if you don't (a) agree and (b) intend to do something about it.

 

The buzz we've been hearing about his efforts prior to and during the draft, along with being in the mix on several players (Galchenyuk, Duchene and now Marleau) is further confirmation. It'll be interesting to see who we eventually get, but I'm very confident he'll get the piece(s) we need. 

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Now Big Joe and Marleau may want to stay together.  Even some tweets about it.  Question for the core: Do we or SJS have a better chance at winning with Joe and Marleau?  Could be a solid selling point for us.  It is a risk with Joe because of his knee. Two solid seasons with those leaders to bridge Roy and Kuokkanen.  

 

My answer is us.  SJS had 99 points with them. We had 87 without them. I believe them, Darling, and all of younger guys getting better would easily equal 6 more wins Plus!  And over the two contract Canes should project higher with the amount of young talent on the roster.

 

Marleau-Joe-Skinner

Aho-Staal-Lindholm

TT-Rask-Stempniak

McGinn-Ryan-Nordstrom

 

extra-PDG

Edited by gocanes0506

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I don't think your coach gets away with saying "what we need isn't going to come from what we have" in the season post-mortem presser if you don't (a) agree and (b) intend to do something about it.

 

The buzz we've been hearing about his efforts prior to and during the draft, along with being in the mix on several players (Galchenyuk, Duchene and now Marleau) is further confirmation. It'll be interesting to see who we eventually get, but I'm very confident he'll get the piece(s) we need. 

I hope you're right.  He came up short about "not using all those draft picks" with the small deals and 3 picks he used.  I don't expect him to fold or overpay, but he also hasn't shown the chops to get a major deal done.  I'm less confident than you, but we'll see.

 

There are guys out there as FA that fit, but he'll have to spend.  He won't be able to have it all ways and wear out everyone's patience.

Edited by Manwolf

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Nail Yukapov.   Signing thus guy would be a big mistake.   No knock on the guy.  But we can do better.  Guys... and gals.....  how is Nail even an option? 

Edited by bluedevil58

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I agree to stay away from Yakupov but what I was surprised with was the pouring of other teams fans in social media who for the most part think he'd thrive in a 3rd line role.

 

For a #1 overall pick whose essentially a bust I'd hate to watch him bust here so I guess we'll see if that's true on some other team hopefully.

 

I can't see Marleau coming here considering his lack of a cup. I could see some cup winners deciding to try something different in their careers though. 

 

 

Edited by legend-1

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Funny I was thinking big Joe wouldn't come here and just sort of extended that to Marleau. But seems to be more buzz about Marleau being the one to go, (though apparently a rumor about Thornton going to LA, wouldn't that be something). Marleau did have the 27 goals last year, and 25 the year before, and 19 the year before that. Supposedly can still skate pretty well. A bit of a steaky scorer, but probably contributes significantly. I'd be open to him or J Willy.

 

Imagine if Francis pulls off a move for a center too. That would give us one of the deepest top 9's in the league.

 

 

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

My answer is us.  SJS had 99 points with them. We had 87 without them. I believe them, Darling, and all of younger guys getting better would easily equal 6 more wins Plus!  And over the two contract Canes should project higher with the amount of young talent on the roster.

 

You are forgetting one crucial difference: Pacific vs Metro. That alone is worth 6 or so points less for us.

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I hope Francis isn't relegated to only FA because the pick and prospect approach didn't work by his own admission and he so far seems unwilling to make a deal with significant pieces going back and forth. Maybe a few trades or early signings in FA will shake some things loose from some of the cap strapped teams.

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35 minutes ago, MinJaBen said:

 

You are forgetting one crucial difference: Pacific vs Metro. That alone is worth 6 or so points less for us.

True. Since that math is already figured in, we are a 93 point team in a decent division without them. We could get 100 with in the Metro though.  

Devils- got better but not sure how much better

Philly- worse IMO. Patrick is a 40-50 point guy maybe, they lost their big PP threat, and still lack a goalie/defense

NYI- O is better, D is worse, G same. Overall slightly better

PIT- w/o Bonino, may be less deep. G ????

WAS- D is worse & their O has to be weaker seeing their cap issues

Columbus- not as deep without Gagner but a top 2 team in the division 

NYR- a lot less formidable this year with no Stepan. Their D is week and only going to weaker if they sign Shattenkirk to some ridiculous deal. They lack a great shutdown guy to make him look better.

 

if we can add 30 more goals in trade/ FA we could battle for 3rd place ~105 points.  

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14 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

if we can add 30 more goals in trade/ FA we could battle for 3rd place ~105 points.

 

After we replace the 22 goals not on the team anymore.

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Read on The Fourth Period from a few days back that RF may be shopping Hanifan to get forward help. Could be for Duchene, Landeskog, Galchenyuk or someone else. Or an unfounded rumor. But in the end if you want to pursue top talent, you have to give up top talent. Nashville gave up Seth Jones to get Johannsen, their 1C. Colorado has got to make a move soon. If that's the direction we're looking, Hanifan is probably the most likely to go. 

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7 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Read on The Fourth Period from a few days back that RF may be shopping Hanifan to get forward help. Could be for Duchene, Landeskog, Galchenyuk or someone else. Or an unfounded rumor. But in the end if you want to pursue top talent, you have to give up top talent. Nashville gave up Seth Jones to get Johannsen, their 1C. Colorado has got to make a move soon. If that's the direction we're looking, Hanifan is probably the most likely to go. 

I understand what you're saying but Nashville had 4 top pair Dmen, 1 top 4 guy, and 1 5th Dman.  They had extra defenders to move and still be the top D in the league.

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8 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

After we replace the 22 goals not on the team anymore.

 

Stalberg, Hainsey, McClement? If so, I think we are covered with full seasons of McGinn, Ryan, and now TVR. 

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9 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Read on The Fourth Period from a few days back that RF may be shopping Hanifan to get forward help. Could be for Duchene, Landeskog, Galchenyuk or someone else. Or an unfounded rumor. But in the end if you want to pursue top talent, you have to give up top talent. Nashville gave up Seth Jones to get Johannsen, their 1C. Colorado has got to make a move soon. If that's the direction we're looking, Hanifan is probably the most likely to go. 

 

I get the idea of trading Hanifin, in that we have Fleury in the wings. I also get that many fans don't see the same talent and ceiling that I do, and if Francis and company think he's expendable, then fine. But I still maintain that this guy will be special and if we trade him we ought to get the kind of return that other guys of his stature have gotten: Johansen is a big, young legit #1 center, with years to go. Neither Duchene of Galchenuk are that, and surely Landeskog is not, and Duchene is only signed for two years, and coming off of a bad year. Galchenyuk has failed to convince two coaches that he is a center. I'd take either guy, but not for Hanifin, let alone Hanifn plus. Also, Hanifin has two NHL seasons under his belt and played very well with Faulk. Putting Dahlbeck or Fluery into that #4 slot will be a drop off. 

 

If I trade Hanifin, I want a guy that can step in at 1C and has years on the deal, and is fairly young. Otherwise? Try something else.

Edited by remkin

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10 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

he so far seems unwilling to make a deal with significant pieces going back and forth.

This is the thing. You gotta give to get.

 

I understand Ronnie not wanting to give up roster D; we're building from the back end out, and had awful D for so long. But we've almost got an embarrassment of riches back there now. I don't want to let Hanifin go any more than RF, but that's very honestly the closest thing to an even swap for Duchene, if we're talking player-for-player. Hanifin gives Joe a long-term piece with tremendous potential, and Duchene adds scoring while buying us two more years of development time for our forward prospects. 

 

The big question for me on Duchene remains whether he fits the system. I know BP liked him at Worlds, but will he be defensively responsible across 82 games? Maybe that doesn't matter if he's scoring, but will he? Without a big winger to create space, can he? This is why I've beaten the drum so consistently for bringing Skog here with him. Skog, Duche and Skinner? Faggedaboudit.

 

So how do you get both? The Avs need a backup now that Pickard went to Vegas. I think Hanifin, Lack, Bean plus picks could get it done. 

 

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If Duchene had a couple more years on his deal, I'd still be jittery about him straight up for Hanifin, but he doesn't and Sakic supposedly also wants a first rounder. 

 

I guess we could try to swing another deal for a #4 D man, but there will be a step off at #4 if we do it, and Faulk seemed to play better with Hanifin. 

 

I would not trade both Hanifin and Bean in one swoop. That puts it all on Fleury. Plus, I am not sold on Landeskog at this point. He has had more than one bad year and a long contract at $6 million. If he is done as a premier player that becomes a bad contract. 

 

I'd do Fleury and even maybe next year's first rounder and a B prospect for Duchene. Still have Bean in the wings, and keep our top 4. 

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15 hours ago, Manwolf said:

IMO either FA signings or a deal must happen.  Even a combination is ok to get the scoring power needed.  RF can play the patient game but MANY fans, particularly those shelling out ticket $$$, will be highly frustrated if he does nothing.  This franchise (fans and players) are ready.  Is he?  We'll find out in part on Saturday at latest.

 

There are FA parts out there that can bring significant help.  If he doesn't want to deal players, then he must get those guys as FA.  Doing nothing shouldn't even be in the back of his mind.

Problem is nobody wants to come here IMO.  No playoffs for 8 yrs, rumors or relocation, lowest attendance in league, not willing to offer long term contracts, bla bla bla.  Well maybe somebody who's already won a few cups, knows how  great the fair weather fans are, knows how beautiful the area and weather is here willy be J. willy to come.  Also I guess anybody who really does their research on us knows we are going to break out as a contender sometime in the next.......who knows.  Maybe we get surprised, but as of now I think our best bet is working out a Duchene trade and over paying a couple of 15goal scorers to help out..

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I think one of the reasons that RF has been skiddish about making a major trade with D going the other way is that he thinks forward help is on the horizon in the system.  I think he was all over trying to make a deal sending picks and prospects the other way for help, but is/was reluctant to move one of the Faulk/Slavin/Pesce/Hanifin quartet.  Doing that just moves the weakness around.  It's one of the reasons that I think adding the UFA gray beard for a couple of years may end up being the answer. 

 

Oh, and Faulk probably gets moved next summer (last year of his contract, and he's going to get PAID) if one of the Charlotte Utes steps up and shows he's ready for prime time. 

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2 minutes ago, danimal-ch1 said:

Problem is nobody wants to come here IMO.  No playoffs for 8 yrs, rumors or relocation, lowest attendance in league, not willing to offer long term contracts, bla bla bla.

It's got nothing to do with it, IMO. RF is an HOFer, BP is known around the league as a great coach already, and the org is widely recognized as going in the right direction with great young talent. 

 

Ronnie made a great deal in the ExDraft and has made several others, but this is his next test: trading value for value. Let's see if he'll do it.

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11 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Columbus- not as deep without Gagner but a top 2 team in the division

 

Yeah, Gagner is a huge loss for them. They were only able to pick up some scrub named Panarin to replace him...

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15 minutes ago, danimal-ch1 said:

Problem is nobody wants to come here IMO.  No playoffs for 8 yrs, rumors or relocation, lowest attendance in league, not willing to offer long term contracts, bla bla bla.  Well maybe somebody who's already won a few cups, knows how  great the fair weather fans are, knows how beautiful the area and weather is here willy be J. willy to come.  Also I guess anybody who really does their research on us knows we are going to break out as a contender sometime in the next.......who knows.  Maybe we get surprised, but as of now I think our best bet is working out a Duchene trade and over paying a couple of 15goal scorers to help out..

 

Yeah, but...

 

Money talks.  In those 8 years you speak of, the only 2 big free agency signings were "he who shall not be named" and Fat Kaberle.  Other than that, has JR or RF even taken a run at a high profile UFA.  Remember, these guys are professionals and have a limited window to make their money.  Most of them can only count on getting one or two big contracts in a career.  Chasing a championship is one thing.  Getting paid is another.  We as fans often have more emotion tied up in the championship aspect, because that is the only payoff for us.

 

Also, never underestimate the lure of April tee times.  Lots of world class golf courses in the area.  Mountains and beaches close by.  Lots of great hunting and fishing. Cost of living is reasonable.  The climate is good.  It's a good place to raise kids.  Did I mention April tee times?

 

14106.jpg

Edited by super_dave_1

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4 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

I think one of the reasons that RF has been skiddish about making a major trade with D going the other way is that he thinks forward help is on the horizon in the system.  I think he was all over trying to make a deal sending picks and prospects the other way for help, but is/was reluctant to move one of the Faulk/Slavin/Pesce/Hanifin quartet.  Doing that just moves the weakness around.  It's one of the reasons that I think adding the UFA gray beard for a couple of years may end up being the answer. 

 

Oh, and Faulk probably gets moved next summer (last year of his contract, and he's going to get PAID) if one of the Charlotte Utes steps up and shows he's ready for prime time. 

Yup, this perfectly describes the "other" option, and it's one I'd be fine with. Better yet, two greybeards: Get JWilly along with Doan (or Marleau or Iggy or Yagr). To show these kids what leadership and toughness is.

 

Duchene without a winger to create space is not the answer. He is a couple-years-older version of Rask, who has been hurt/recuperating from one of the most difficult injuries for a pure shooter over the last two years (cuff), yet he still managed to be among the team's top scorers both years. When he returns fully healthy this year, I think we'll see more than the mere flashes of amazing that he's shown to this point. 

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21 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

 

Also, never underestimate the lure of April tee times.  Lots of world class golf courses in the area.  Mountains and beaches close by.  Lots of great hunting and fishing. Cost of living is reasonable.  The climate is good.  It's a good place to raise kids.  Did I mention April tee times?

It's so enticing that sometimes it seems like the team purposely craps the bed to avoid missing out on this. 

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