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Free Agency Frenzy or Fizzle

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4 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

Last I heard Hossa is out for the year with that skin allergy thing.  So we're talking about taking on his contract, not a roster player. The compensation is rumored to be picks/ prospects, so presumably wouldn't effect our current roster. 

 

3 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

That was my take Lake, that this is just taking on a LTIR contract for compensation, unless Hossa has had a miraculous recovery?

 

Yes, he is not playing this year, and likely not any longer. If he actually retires before the end of the contract there is a recapture penalty because of the type of contract he signed that front loaded the contract and then had the last four years with just $1M actual salary even though the AAV is $5.25M. Unfortunately, we'd have to pay that $1M per year for four years in salary. We can't use LTIR cap forgiveness until we spend to (and over) the cap, so we would pay and it would count against the cap. Unless we get back a very high level of compensation (1st, DeBrincat) I'd avoid this. We are not at that stage of a rebuild anymore in my opinion and we have a bunch of UFAs coming off the books during those four years.

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15 minutes ago, MinJaBen said:

Yes, he is not playing this year, and likely not any longer. If he actually retires before the end of the contract there is a recapture penalty because of the type of contract he signed that front loaded the contract and then had the last four years with just $1M actual salary even though the AAV is $5.25M. Unfortunately, we'd have to pay that $1M per year for four years in salary. We can't use LTIR cap forgiveness until we spend to (and over) the cap, so we would pay and it would count against the cap. Unless we get back a very high level of compensation (1st, DeBrincat) I'd avoid this. We are not at that stage of a rebuild anymore in my opinion and we have a bunch of UFAs coming off the books during those four years.

 

Good stuff, Min. 

 

Just to be clear, any recapture penalty associated with Hossa's contract stays with Chicago regardless if he's traded, right?  But out of loyalty to Chicago, that makes Hossa much more likely to stay on LTIR for the next 4 years (if possible) instead of retiring and triggering the recapture penalty, regardless of who owns his contract.  If we did take on his contract we'd have his cap hit of $5.275m on our books for the next 4 years, which I don't see as a major problem because if the cap ceiling ever did become an issue, LTIR would kick in.  But we'd have to pay his actual salary of $1m per year for the next 4 years.  I've heard that most teams have insurance that would cover a portion of a players salary if he's on LTIR.  But I doubt it would cover a player you brought in under those circumstances (kind of a "pre-existing conditions" thing).  

 

So to my mind the most likely scenario for Chicago dumping Hossa's contract in a trade would be if Chicago retained the max portion of his contract they could ($500k per).  The acquiring team would be on the hook for each of the next 4 years for $500k actual and a cap hit of $4.775m.  But the cap hit would be eligible for LTIR if needed. 

 

One other factor is if Hossa lost his medical eligibility for LTIR.  I'm guessing the NHL is going to pay very close attention to that given their concerns about teams circumventing the cap rules.  If he did, he'd either have to try to play (a risk to the acquiring team) or go ahead and formally retire (bad for the Hawks, good for whoever took on his contract).

 

If all of the above is right, the question boils down to: what kind of return would make it worthwhile to help Chicago out AND spend up to $2m of your money to do it?  Like Min said, it would take a very nice return. 

 

 

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We need these rich teams to choke and puke on their contracts.  Stop giving them a way out.  Or if a way out is given, they better pay dearly.

 

No team should be trying to reach the floor with dead money.  That's Just Wrong, ARZ.

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Lake, I'd reverse Stempniak and TVR in your scenario. Stempniak is only under contract for 1 more year. One year of a 40 point player for a team starting from scratch is not worth a second. In the end, I think you have to look at the totality of the deal from each side. Wonder how long RF had to hold out to get that 7th rounder thrown in?

 

Also, I think Neal would be a nice addition, but all of a sudden, we have 13 forwards under contract. Unless we part with a roster player (McGinn?), not sure we add another. McGinn certainly has not shown that he is worth a player like Neal, but maybe together with a decent prospect, which is what Vegas wants. Haven't heard any speculation about Canes interest in Neal, so it's probably a moot point.

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

Just to be clear, any recapture penalty associated with Hossa's contract stays with Chicago regardless if he's traded, right?

 

Yes, Article 50 of the CBA covers that.

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58 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Lake, I'd reverse Stempniak and TVR in your scenario. Stempniak is only under contract for 1 more year. One year of a 40 point player for a team starting from scratch is not worth a second. In the end, I think you have to look at the totality of the deal from each side. Wonder how long RF had to hold out to get that 7th rounder thrown in?

 

Also, I think Neal would be a nice addition, but all of a sudden, we have 13 forwards under contract. Unless we part with a roster player (McGinn?), not sure we add another. McGinn certainly has not shown that he is worth a player like Neal, but maybe together with a decent prospect, which is what Vegas wants. Haven't heard any speculation about Canes interest in Neal, so it's probably a moot point.

 

Agreed, and that's all that I intended.  I put it into a column format only because it's easier for me to visualize the whole that way, not as an intent to match up different pieces.

 

I wouldn't mind Neal except for fit; he's a RW, and we've already got J Will, Stempniak, and Lindholm.  If we get another significant piece I'd hope it would be a center.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Here's a nutty idea..or maybe not.

 

So, assuming we're out of the Duchene talks (we are not mentioned at one of the currently hot pursuit teams), and just for the moment assuming there is not a serious upgrade at center out there. What could we do?

 

We could look at Jagr. "What? The man will be 46 during the playoffs!"

 

I know, he is not in any way the guy I pine for. BUT, the question could be: is he better than McGinn or Ryan? And might he bring some interesting intangibles to a team that Francis is trying to fold some "know how to win" veterans into. He just needs to be our 9th best forward and add goals/points better than that position.

 

I'm not even close to predicting we will do it, but Francis does have a connection with Jagr having played with him and there is a lot of mutual respect there.

 

Why not? He is 45-46. Even Methuselah is going to hit a wall at some point. That and he is, uh, not fleet of foot. For a team that wants to play fast, the play will have to be drawn up with Jagr trailing in. So why consider him?

 

44-45 year old Jagr put up 46 points last year. He was the #106 forward in production. That is just off first line. He is a possession monster. His advanced stats line up with top players still. His slowness and age become ageless on the PP, an area we can always use help. He put up 16 goals, which tied him with Jordan, Rask, Stempniak. More that TT, Lindholm and Ryan. He if hits 16 goals again, that is 7 goals more than our #9 forward. But his assists create points too. His 30 assists would have been #2 on our team last year. Even if we only credit him with creating say 8 extra goals this way, that's 15 more goals than without him.

 

15 more goals and a better PP, adding to J Willy's say 10 more goals, puts us at 240 goals with no improvements from anyone else. With any kind of D and goaltending that's playoffs.

 

He would add splash, and interest in the fan base, and sell some tickets.

We still lose no one. This is addition only.

It would be a one year deal, so the money is no problem, and our yutes will start pushing next year.

He brings even more veteran panache to the locker room and ice.

He is depth for injuries.

 

Francis says he hasn't talked to him, so that doesn't seem to indicate a ton of interest, but the longer he's out there, and the longer we don't do something else, the more of a look it might be worth.

Edited by remkin

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55 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

I would be really happy if the team signed Stalberg for 4th line duties.  I really liked his play.

 

Many of us did.  But Canes couldn't re-sign Stalberg until Jan. 2018.   And it seems to me like most of our recent moves have been designed to fill similar roles to what Stalberg brings if he still were with the team.

Edited by LakeLivin

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This from Ryan Lambert of Puck Daddy:

 

 

7 – Being Jaromir Jagr

But let’s keep in mind: Despite a pretty good number of minutes — second among Panthers forwards for the season, in fact — he led an admittedly mediocre team in relative percentages for the following categories: corsi, fenwick, shots, and high-danger chances.

He also ranked second in percentage of chances, goals, and high-danger goals.

This is a guy who helps anyone who signs him.

Edited by remkin

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I love, love, LOVE me some Jagr.  I love the fact that he's played at the level he has for so long.  If the Canes signed him, I'd get a Jagr sweater.  That being said, I'm with coastal in that he's way too slow for this team.  Just because I like the guy doesn't mean that I want to see him signed.

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By general league standards Jagr did have a very nice year, which is freaking amazing for a 45yo.  I'd love to have him as a PP specialist if we could afford to expend a roster slot on him. 

 

But where to put him?  As coastal points out, you've got the question of speed; would BP be able to fit him in without unduly compromising our style of play?  And we've already got J Will, Stempniak, and Lindholm on the right side, none of whom I'd want to take minutes away from.  Would 4th line work for either the Canes or Jagr?  I guess a lot of that depends on what BP wants it's role to be.  

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JVR is my vote.  Could play Center this year with Lindholm as his winger for faceoff purposes.  Next year (if GMRF follows through with Aho being a C) could play LW, if re-signed. 

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A lot of teams want to play fast now, and may be part of why he hasn't landed anywhere yet. And it is a fair point, that I did put in the negatives on him.

 

Still, couldn't we manage one slow guy if he scored all those points? Just let him be the last guy in the zone. Let the other two forecheck. Peters is a smart guy, maybe he can figure it out! Also, Peters is a possession guy, and Jagr basically never gives the puck up.

 

I'm not making a major push, more kicking the tires.

 

 

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Jags is too old, too slow, and too RW. We're full up. And at C too, AFAIC. FL missed the playoffs and is ready to move on from him. That should tell us all we need to know.

 

2 hours ago, remkin said:

15 more goals and a better PP, adding to J Willy's say 10 more goals, puts us at 240 goals with no improvements from anyone else.

And again with counting unhatched chickens, as if adding given players is a lock for adding x number of goals. We have a young team that has another year under its belt and has just improved every area that hurt it last year. But yeah... let's find a reason to carry a 45-year-old whose last team didn't make the dance.

 

RF chuckled when asked if he'd been in touch with Jags. Rightly so.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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BP almost had a nervous breakdown the last time he had to deal with a slow forward. Александр Валерьевич Сёмин,

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52 minutes ago, remkin said:

Still, couldn't we manage one slow guy if he scored all those points?

 

Okay, so where does Jagr play in our lineup (as I see it right now) for a slow guy that can bring all those points with him.

 

TT - Staal - Williams

Aho - Rask - Lindholm

Skinner - Ryan - Stempniak

Nordstram - Kruger - Joordish

McGiinn

 

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That is why i say JVR

 

TT - Staal - Stempniak 

Skinner - Rask - Williams

Aho - JVR - Lindholm

Ryan - Kruger - Joordish

McGinn

 

JVR can help Aho with the differences of wing and center.   They could flip as Peters wants to try Aho at center.

Edited by gocanes0506

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

That is why i say JVR

 

TT - Staal - Stempniak 

Skinner - Rask - Williams

Aho - JVR - Lindholm

Ryan - Kruger - Joordish

McGinn

 

JVR can help Aho with the differences of wing and center.   They could flip as Peters wants to try Aho at center.

Sold.   Who here is comfortable with Ryan as our 3C?  I'm not

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28 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Sold.   Who here is comfortable with Ryan as our 3C?  I'm not

 

If we are serious about playoffs in this crazy division, I am not.

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