Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
rocheccw

Free Agency Frenzy or Fizzle

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, sleekfeeder said:

where do these goals, that we apparently are ever so desperate for come from?

They come from one more year of the the same guys playing together, from allowing fewer at the other end, and from a fourth line that shuts down the opposition in the late stages instead of allowing an equalizer and losing in OT.

 

In other words, you can't say "we have the potential to score this many goals, and scoring that many goals gets us in," no matter how strenuously some think you can. But more important, you can't count on x number of goals from anyone--and that works in both directions. You can't count on Skinner or Aho scoring 30--but also you can't count on them not scoring 40, depending on things they just don't keep stats on, most notably chemistry and confidence.

Edited by top-shelf-1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, sleekfeeder said:

I agree it's a long shot, probably not happening, and we should all stop analyzing the trade details to death and move on. If it's not then, where do these goals, that we apparently are ever so desperate for come from? All I've seen is projections on unproven youth, which to me boils down back to magic beans like we were counting at the end of this last season. 

Look, I'm not discounting anything Ronnie has done up to this point. In my opinion, great job. He's added, intangibles, grit, leadership, goal tending (presumably), and some scoring (again presumably), but there's still that gaping hole in the middle of the ice, in my opinion, that would put us over the top as a competitor. The whole end of season checklist most would say this requirement was second only to goal tending (Maybe). Again, I'm not insinuating Ronnie didn't try, but the team we're about to ice is still missing something even to compete for a wild card. Might as well lump us in with the Phillys, Floridas, and Islanders of the world. A middling team, that with a little luck might make a wild card. BP pretty much said in that infamous last presser the he wants flash, speed, talent. A superstar. Those don't become available every day, and you don't really teach that. Look around the league. Most of those 60+ point guys didn't come up through some system. They were drafted because they already had it. Why not go for it? He gets a B- maybe a C from me. My perspective, it boils down to assets, and the value and timing of those assets through your system. When to keep them, when to use them as leverage. That's why I keep drumming up the conversation about Duchene. Who knows? There might be some Canes magic and we might light it up. Go Canes. Still love them, but gosh.....

sleekfeeder, sorry i am incapable of picking out points I'd like to discuss, but maybe 1 of the mods can instruct me so I don't have to pull down this entire piece. Nevertheless, in that start of 2nd paragraph you state "I'm not discounting anything Ronnie has done", but then proceed to do just that? What I'm not getting, and it's not just from you, but similar thoughts from several, is how anyone could have secured that "1 piece in the middle", without giving up equally, if not MORE SO, valuable assets to do so. Seems like this is similar to the so-called "robbing Peter to pay Paul" principle? I am quite sure, that even without BP's public prodding, RF knew and knows of the critical importance of a True 1C, and equally sure that he worked overtime to bring one in.

 

And as you adroitly point out later, "A superstar. They don't become available every day" and further "most of those 60+ point guys didn't come up through some system. They were drafted because they already had it". Now don't you imagine if you are a GM, and you realize this observation, that you are somewhat reluctant to give it up, yet you add that you give RF"a B- maybe a C"? Then finally, you go on to mention "leverage", but what I'm questioning, and please don't take this personal, as I'm just curious, is exactly what leverage does a GM use when he, as well as apparently several other GM's after the same player, feels like the "price" is exorbitant? I suggest that RF holding his ground on this is exerting his "leverage". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

sorry i am incapable of picking out points I'd like to discuss, but maybe 1 of the mods can instruct me so I don't have to pull down this entire piece

 

First you highlight the sentence of text. Then move your cursor off the highlighted text or mouse your cursor back over the highlighted text and a small box appears "Quote This"  click on the box and the highlighted text will appear in the posting box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RyazanCaniac said:

Ахахахаххахахахах!

 

A good try! You should just dust up a little bit on your Russian.:D

 

I was hoping you'd chime in, RyaznCaniac!  Google translated said "something" about donkeys.  Made me laugh. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

First you highlight the sentence of text. Then move your cursor off the highlighted text or mouse your cursor back over the highlighted text and a small box appears "Quote This"  click on the box and the highlighted text will appear in the posting box.

 

Whattttttttttttttt....I've been deleting stuff manually for years!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, legend-1 said:

 

Whattttttttttttttt....I've been deleting stuff manually for years!

 

Not to worry Legend it is a fairly new feature. I was doing the same as you until that box jumped up one time when I was going to copy a paste a sentence from a post.

 

Its a neat feature but I think you can only highlight  consecutive sentences.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry. Didn't expect to draw this much ire from my last post. I'll try to address your comments separately guys without going Tolstoy!

 

Top -  Clearly you're bought in to what Ron has put together this off season, and that's great. I'm not saying you are wrong, insulting you, it's the wrong philosophy, or saying the Canes are going to fail miserably. I just feel like we need a little more proven scoring talent up front. I just don't feel like we have enough top to bottom to contend in our division. Opinion only. I like offense! -That's all. 

 

KJUN - To reiterate,  I didn't discount anything Ronnie had done. I discounted what he HADN"T done, which is bring in a 1C,  And yes, in this case, I'm aggressive. I go out and make the deal to rob Peter to Pay Paul. There was a great interview with Ron on XM Friday afternoon, and both the radio guys were SALIVATING over our defensive depth and farm system before they even talked to Ronnie, afterward calling it "an embarrassment of riches". To me, eventually one of these D guys has to go. You can't pay all of them or give the ice time of 6 Jacob Slavins. Look I don't know what Sakic wanted, wants, or will want in the near future, nor does anyone. Ron knows best. The post was meant to generate fun banter about a Duchene trade. 

 

Both - To me it boils down to me just not totally being sold on the projected ceilings of some of our forwards. I'm trying to get there! In any case, it feels like Ron is done making any serious moves. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sleekfeeder said:

Sorry. Didn't expect to draw this much ire from my last post.

 

I didn't notice the ire and in fact found your post(s) very interesting. I thought you laid out your reasons for favoring the "bigger" move very well and it generated some good conversation. I thought those that replied did the same. I think there are many of us or at least me who wonder if we have done enough.

 

Quote

sleekfeeder said; Both - To me it boils down to me just not totally being sold on the projected ceilings of some of our forwards. I'm trying to get there! In any case, it feels like Ron is done making any serious moves. 

 

This is really the question. How can we know if the projections for improvement among our forwards will become reality or that some players won't begin to falter.  I think it might be safe to say IMO that the moves thus far haven't been small ball moves Darling, Williams and the other moves have addressed specific problems.  I don't think RF is done but I'm not sure any further moves won't come later in the summer/fall and probable not of that wowser move variety.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see Darling and Williams as the two biggest moves that RF has made as GM and the biggest move since HWSNBN was signed and insanely extended for 5 years.  Darling and Williams fills two of the biggest needs on the team in goaltending and scoring.  TVR fills a spot that was a hemorrhoid all season last year.  Kruger is an interesting addition that should at least be an upgrade at 4c and Peters now has a 4th line that can be used as a shutdown line and free up JStaal's line from some of the defensive zone starts.  Add in modest advancement by the young players, and I think this team is in a much better spot than last year's team.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SD nicely sums up the strength of the moves made this offseason, and sleekfeeder rightly asks if this is enough.

 

That encapsulates in a nutshell the question: Is Francis done? Should he be?

 

I think it's fair to say that the moves made will substantially improve a team who, owing to overall in experience should improve even without those upgrades. Personally I think that the moves will be enough, but one more solid move would seal the deal, and after what we've been through, that would be good.

 

Francis has implied that he's mostly done unless something comes along. I read that to mean that on Duchene, he's not trading Hanfin, and since that seems to be the asking price, we're done talking.

 

We do remain in speculation though: just today:  http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/five-teams-that-still-make-sense-as-matt-duchene-trade-partners

 

The bottom line is that teams rumored to be interested in Duchene are just not willing to pay Sakic's price even to this date. I think Sakic has a nightmare on his hands if he fails in this game. He gets a disgruntled Duchene back on what is still bound to be a terrible team, likely to put up another bad year. Then he has even less time on his contract and declining value. So, if the Bruins, LA, Pittsburgh and Columbus hold the line, then maybe our offer looks good again. 

 

Quote from link above: "Colorado is believed to have asked for Hanifin and been rebuffed. But a potential trade between these two teams makes far too much sense to ignore".

 

The recent talking down of Duchene is interesting too. I still believe that a change in scenery will bring back a 65 point center, who while not a bastion of defense, was ok at it in his prime, and probably improves on a new team. If we in effect replace Ryan with Duchene, on top of the moves already made? That should lock us in.

 

If that, or similar move doesn't happen, I still like our team though.

 

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see RF snag a waiver or two when teams start cutting their rosters, but it's quite unlikely he'd be getting a 1C that way.  He may still have a trick or two up his sleeve though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fine if people want to let go of Duchene, and it is not likely at this point. But it is legit discussion, and until he is off the market, or we stop coming up in rumors and projections in outside sources, it's fair game. While Francis' position now is that he's out, that could change if Sakic doesn't get what he wants from other teams, which at the moment is what's happening, and if Sakic comes off needing one of our top 4, then we do make sense as trading partners. Unless Francis will also not trade Fleury or Bean for Duchene, which may be, but we don't know. In my view he should trade Fleury for Duchene if that deal becomes acceptable. And that is still my outside hope.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duchene is like a trashy novel. You ask yourself why in the world am I reading it but you just can't put it down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Duchene is like a trashy novel. You ask yourself why in the world am I reading it but you just can't put it down. 

I can. And have.

 

We've got the horses down the middle IMO. I've moved on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I can. And have.

 

We've got the horses down the middle IMO. I've moved on.

 

I think we have interchangeable centers down the middle in Lindy, Aho, TT, and Ryan.  I am not sure how not having a true 60 - 70 pnt 1C will work out but I am optimistic about this season to see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty tough to speculate for this long on Duchene when we literally have no idea what the real offers were/are.

 

I figure if we had actually given up what it would take to get him we would be screaming bloody murder about getting screwed instead of longing for a second-rate 1C.  A second rate 1C is just a 2C having a great year, and we have some of those guys that can do just that.

 

In fact, we had a 2nd rate 1C and we traded him.  Now we want one back?

 

Duchene sucks. (or will continue to suck until we get him for a song)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, remkin said:

It's fine if people want to let go of Duchene, and it is not likely at this point. But it is legit discussion, and until he is off the market, or we stop coming up in rumors and projections in outside sources, it's fair game.

 

It may be a legit topic Remkin - HOWEVER, what does gets old is people who continue to repeatedly post on the Duchene topic with nothing new to say or add to what everyone on the planet has already speculated on.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

It may be a legit topic Remkin - HOWEVER, what does gets old is people who continue to repeatedly post on the Duchene topic with nothing new to say or add to what everyone on the planet has already speculated on.

Fair point, but who is the arbitrator of when a topic is over?

 

When it comes to trade speculation, if we can only opine if there is new information, well there rarely is. In this case there was more new speculation making the point that this type of trade just makes too much sense to ignore. Ironically, the hockey news just said that. If we had not come up there, I would not have brought it up again. 

 

Also, while there is no new news on this, every day that Sakic doesn't get what he wants is sort of news, in that it is one more thing that might push him to reconsider whatever offer Francis did have on the table. 

 

We are one of 5 teams that keep coming up. Maybe nothing new, but not like I'm creating this out of whole cloth. 

 

I get that some are annoyed with this topic, it's pretty obvious, but others are still interested. And it's not like there's a ton of fresh startling new content out there right now.

 

 

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No matter what side of the Duchene subject we are on it does remain relevant for discussion. All users have the right to post their views. All users who don't want to discuss or rehash the issue can ignore the post or not reply.  If nobody replies than it will stop being talked about.

 

Just this morning I read that the Carolina Hurricanes are the best fit for Duchene although the columnist noted that RF has nixed any deal  when he publicly stated he wasn't trading a top four D.

 

As long as Duchene is out there and available he will remain a center focus around the league.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is we have moved into an area where the team's expectations are to be in the playoffs. Duchene may go by the wayside. But if Darling holds up and we are not getting the job done because we lack goal scoring 25 games into the season, I think we make a move for someone to score some goals. Enough has been invested that we don't write off another season if we can't score coming out of the gate. Ron has 13 forwards under contract, and I believe he feels we have what we need to start the season. If they cannot score enough goals, I could see an in-season move. Unless Sakic totally caves, I'd be shocked if Duchene comes here before the season starts. An in season move, if necessary, may be for someone else, but I don't think we just crater and let another season go if we start poorly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Ron has 13 forwards under contract, and I believe he feels we have what we need to start the season. If they cannot score enough goals, I could see an in-season move. Unless Sakic totally caves, I'd be shocked if Duchene comes here before the season starts

 

This is how I see it too. I could see a move before the season around training camp. I will be shocked if Duchene comes here before or after the season starts. I think Francis will look elsewhere but that is only a hunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, OBXer said:

Duchene is like a trashy novel. You ask yourself why in the world am I reading it but you just can't put it down. 

Great analogy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion on Duchene is that if Sakic were willing to do Fleury plus our 2018 1st, I'd probably do it. If he wants one of the top four, or he wanted Fleury, the pick and another highend prospect, then I'm willing to go with out at this point. I think the moves Francis made during the offseason were everything needed except a #1C and I'm not sure we don't already have that player in our system. I think any of Aho, Necas and Lindholm (I know, I know...Peters says he's a winger) could still develop into that roll. If the price for Duchene is three futures or one of our top four defenders, then I say no because it takes to much from the depth the organization has finally built. If Sakic wants to sell a bit cheap, then fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...