Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
MinJaBen

Carolina Hurricanes Sold

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, coastal_caniac said:

I don't think hold the phone is in in play here.  Karmonos can't negotiate with another buyer, so he either reaches an agreement and sells the team to the Greenberg Group, or he doesn't and has to start over again.  And it's 500 million, reportedly.  He bought the franchis for around 50 million.   

 

I found this earlier today on the 2006 sale of the Penguins, but it's a good read if only to get an idea of timelines, what letters of intent actually mean, and the approval process.

 

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/group-led-by-sam-fingold-signs-letter-of-intent-to-buy-penguins/c-494743

Thanks for sharing that.  I kno it is a process, even if everything is lined up right.

58 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Please make this final so we can assemble around PNC with torches and pitchforks to escort Waddell off the premises?

HEY! HEY1 HO! HO1 dON GOT TO GO!

42 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Well, if this team moved from Raleigh, would we all still be here on the boards?  Or would you all find new teams?

I'd still follow.  But I also have a Scott Walker Nashville jersey, just in case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

What is the probability this sale is going through?  Let's hear It!  I say 65% chance it happens. 

80%, especially if he promises to keep the team in Raleigh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Well, if this team moved from Raleigh, would we all still be here on the boards?  Or would you all find new teams?

 

I'd just become a Charleston Stingrays fan.  Well, I am already.  This reported new owner needs to purchase the Stingrays and make them our Carolina ECHL affiliate. Put that on the wish list with a new practice facility and upgraded tailgate options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I'd just become a Charleston Stingrays fan.  Well, I am already.  This reported new owner needs to purchase the Stingrays and make them our Carolina ECHL affiliate. Put that on the wish list with a new practice facility and upgraded tailgate options.

Maybe.  But the Everblades are PK's baby, and Germain arena is owned by Gale Force.  I would suspect that these things are part of any sale.  Stipulation could be to keep the tie in, or on the other hand, maybe disassociate it as part of the deal.  Let's just say any sales contract is more than a page long.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it's impossible to say the % chance, so I will. I'll go out on a limb and say 95%. The 5% is because the Canes are PK's baby, and he likes owning the team. The rest is based on about $500 million reasons. From everything I've heard and read, most thought $425 million max. PK wants the team to stay here, which it will. I'm guessing he still pockets the franchise bucks from expansion too. He's been looking for a buyer or major investor for quite a while now. How does he turn this down?

Edited by remkin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

 Stipulation could be to keep the tie in, or on the other hand, maybe disassociate it as part of the deal.

 

The latter, and buy the Stingrays.  :lol:

 

Both our affiliates IN the Carolinas would be so cool.

 

 

 

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 8:14 AM, top-shelf-1 said:

I would love to see a ECHL team in Fayetteville. There's enough military here to support a team. The SPHL is a joke. In its entire history it has only seen 1 player move to the AHL or higher. 1=Darling 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking the same thing.  If someone is going to spend $500 million, it is guaranteed they will most likely want to install their own management team.  President, GM, coach, etc...right on down the line.

 

I hope not, because I really want to see Francis and peters see this thing through. Let their vision come to fruition.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

:poke: QC

Can someone explain? I would rather see a different finger directed at QC. I'm missing the joke apparently.

 

And Iceman, I agree 100% that I would like to see RF and BP finish what they started. Hopefully, if this happens, the new owner will recognize the stellar job that has been done raising this team from the ashes in the past 3 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

If this goes through, management, all the way to RF and coaches are in play.

No freakin way...the new owners wouldn't be that stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greenberg sounds like a sports guy and not just an egomaniac who wants to own a pro team (e.g., Dolan or Snyder).  I've got to believe that in doing his due diligence he's closely tracked not just where the Canes are, but where they've come from.  Given the recognition that RF, BP, and the Canes are finally getting from the "pundits", I'd be shocked if Greenberg would tinker with that aspect of the franchise before giving it a chance to play out.  Of course, there are some crazy owners out there; let's just hope Greengerg isn't one of them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I'd just become a Charleston Stingrays fan.  Well, I am already.  This reported new owner needs to purchase the Stingrays and make them our Carolina ECHL affiliate. Put that on the wish list with a new practice facility and upgraded tailgate options.

This would be awesome. Living right outside of Charleston its really the only live hockey I get to attend regularly during the season. It feels a bit odd being a Canes fan and cheering for a Caps affiliate. I have to drive 4+ to come see the boys play in Raleigh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

Greenberg sounds like a sports guy and not just an egomaniac who wants to own a pro team (e.g., Dolan or Snyder).  I've got to believe that in doing his due diligence he's closely tracked not just where the Canes are, but where they've come from.  Given the recognition that RF, BP, and the Canes are finally getting from the "pundits", I'd be shocked if Greenberg would tinker with that aspect of the franchise before giving it a chance to play out.  Of course, there are some crazy owners out there; let's just hope Greengerg isn't one of them. 

 

When it comes to sports, he doesn't sound crazy.  He sounds like a methodical, logical lawyer that he is, checks that every 't' is crossed and 'i' dotted, and then does what is required to make money.    Waddell is likely to be the closest to him, because Don also runs the area and logistics.  ($$$$$$)  Remember, this deal includes a lucrative tie-in to the arena.  My guess is Don gets the closest look first.  Just guessing.

 

BTW, Don was on TV earlier this week discussing bomb sniffing dogs for a concert.  If I bought the team, the first thing I would do is probably add some management to that separates out all the area logistical stuff versus the hockey team.  I'd rather have my hockey guys worry about hockey, and my logistics guys worry about bomb dogs.   That's just me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

If this goes through, management, all the way to RF and coaches are in play.

I think that'd be true if we were in the same boat as Colorado (i.e., clueless GM, team in disarray, coaching nightmare).

 

But when you've got widespread recognition around the league that the team is headed in the right direction and it is as loaded with prospects and roster talent as this one is - and that is due almost entirely to the GM/coach now in place - I think it's a lot less likely.

 

On top of which, I have to wonder whether Greenberg knows Ronnie a little, and maybe more than a little. They both have the Pens in common. Though Greenberg's work on the sale to Lemieux's group came after RF was back with Carolina, hockey is a tight little community. It wouldn't surprise me if we eventually find out that this deal was at least partly enabled by Mario referring Greenberg to Ronnie, since RF's part of the current ownership group.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to think the positive direction of the organization has a lot to do with finding a buyer.  Who would have wanted to buy the dumpster fire of 3 or 4 years ago?  Amazing with the emergence of a couple of 2nd rounders and a 4th can do for an organization's outlook.

 

I think the on ice management team is okay.  Operations and other things, not so much.  We need a new Director of Bobbleheads.

Edited by super_dave_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PK bought the team for $47m (I think).  I also think Forbes last year said it was worth $230m.  Does anyone question why this guy is willing to pay such a high premium?? Me thinks he may have plans.  Mergers/Acquisitions are never a win-win for the one being acquired or merged into another group.  At that gross over-price of $500m the Raleigh market looks way too small. As in any biz setting all the parties say the right things at the presser but once the acquisition of a company has occurred all bets are off the table  and the original presser becomes little more than the dog and pony show it was intended to be with everyone saying the right kum-by-ya things.  Everyone should be holding their breath on this to some extent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Forbes consider the sweet deal with the arena?  Or was it just the team?  What about the Germain arena and team in FL?

 

I don't know the answers or what the Forbes article included, and what this deal includes (we have no idea of the scope of the deal).    But it could be an comparison of one small granny smith, to a bag of red delicious apples.  And the wildcard in this is the outlook on the team and perceived value of the future prospects of the team (mentioned above).

Edited by wxray1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

PK bought the team for $47m (I think).  I also think Forbes last year said it was worth $230m.  Does anyone question why this guy is willing to pay such a high premium?? Me thinks he may have plans.  Mergers/Acquisitions are never a win-win for the one being acquired or merged into another group.  At that gross over-price of $500m the Raleigh market looks way too small. As in any biz setting all the parties say the right things at the presser but once the acquisition of a company has occurred all bets are off the table  and the original presser becomes little more than the dog and pony show it was intended to be with everyone saying the right kum-by-ya things.  Everyone should be holding their breath on this to some extent.

 

Or maybe.........you are just dead wrong. 

 

It's well known that Forbes valuations of sports teams are consistently less (as much as 50% undervalued) than the actual market and eventual selling price.  More than one business analyst has debunked that value and opined that the actual value and selling price would be around $425 million.  At this time, and since this is a private agreement, you nor anybody else knows what PK may eventually end up paying.  We may never know.

 

Maybe the agreement to keep the Canes in Raleigh as reported is true.  Certainly the NHL has said it won't approve a relocation, more than once.  Actually they have said it multiple times every time a rumor of a Canes relocation pops up.  They [the league] also has to approve the sale.  What we do know is the Canes aren't going anywhere for 5 years by NHL rule.  A good owner, with strategic marketing, should be able to take advantage of the upward trend in the organization during this time.  And why would anyone pay 500 million for a team, announce it is not relocating, then turn around and pay a 150 million relocation fee on top of what it would cost to break the arena lease, even if the league approved - which it's on record of not being in favor?  He is also interested in local investment, another sign that there is no interest in moving the team from the largest growing area in the US.  Greenberg also has southern market connections.

 

The hockey likers from more northern markets are here now.  More are coming.  The organic fanbase is here and established.  We just need an owner that shows more interest in marketing and making the team competitive to make this market an attractive, and consistently profitable one.  I think Greenberg agrees.

 

I don't buy your conspiracy theory, nor will I lay awake at night holding my breath, as you suggest.

Edited by coastal_caniac
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

Mergers/Acquisitions are never a win-win for the one being acquired or merged into another group. 

Hmmm, yeah--but sports are different. League approval is necessary, which means the League's broader growth plan must be encompassed. In short, this doesn't fly if the league doesn't say so, and if the league is as committed to this market as it has claimed, an assurance that the franchise stays here - and I would think a warning to Greenberg that any request to move it will be denied - are likely hurdles to final approval. JMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, Forbes will always have a stock bias.  Sports teams probably are not their thing.

 

If you invested $47M in the S & P 500 in 1994, it would be worth $345M today.  In aggregate, sports teams over this period have appreciated better than stocks.  I would consider $350M to be a floor valuation.  I think Forbes was a bit out to lunch since their view of the Canes value was off the charts compared to the rest of the league.

 

I mean, it was just a magazine writer and editor's idea.  Not Gospel or anything.

Edited by wxray1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wxray1 said:

By the way, Forbes will always have a stock bias.

This is a critical point. Forbes considers values as if companies were publicly traded firms. Gale Force is not, it's a privately held LP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Wow--I guess we told him! (joking...)

 

Well, that wasn't really the intention of my post.  I just think there really is no need to subscribe to or promulgate conspiracy theories when they aren't warranted.  I for one, am tired of hearing about some cable guy said this about a relocation, or some airplane PK owns went somewhere, as evidence to suggest a move.  I still take this news as a breath of fresh [hurricane] air.  I'll be the first to admit I can't say for certain that the team won't relocate, but all the data points, when connected, suggest that's not going to happen. 

 

Heck, we don't even know if the team is actually being sold, as OBXer suggested [it might be better to pump the brakes] after PK's comments responding to the rumors. We also don't even know if the guy can raise the cash to buy the team.  It may all fall apart but I don't see there being some conspiracy theory.

 

One last thing - I'm sure the league wants teams sold at least at the value of establishing a new team, which coincidentally, is 500 million.  A team selling for the Forbes valuation (230 million) undercuts the other owners profits.

 

 

Edited by coastal_caniac
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...