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OBXer

Training Camp 2017

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21 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

Of course you always learn something when you skate a certain player. So why skate him at wing again tonight?  Is that where you want him to play at the AHL level? Are you trying to groom him for a call up?

I sure hope so.

 

I greatly favor sending him to the AHL, and have to think the brain trust would much prefer to monitor his progress across a state versus an ocean, if he'll agree. I think they're trying in part to give him enough ice time to encourage him to say yes. If he hits a wall in the A due to travel or the added games or the physicality, loaning him back to his CZ team to let him finish the year--OR, if he adapts his game, AND to the very different version of hockey in North America--yes, absolutely, a later call-up.

 

Others have differed with me on the likelihood of this scenario playing out, but to my mind, it's one of the greatest benefits of scouting in Europe. If you find a kid like this, you have far greater flexibility in how and where to develop him, at a younger age, than you do under the NHL's agreement with the Canadian Junior Hockey system. Why not put that advantage to work?

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RF on a number of occasions has blamed Lindholm's slow growth to being thrown into the league too early and I feel like those comments aren't even a year old yet. Then to turn around and risk doing the same thing with Necas? That's a helluva fine line between genius and idiot depending on which way the seesaw falls.

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Seems like just a couple of years ago this team was center-deprived.

 

Oh, wait..

It seems our drafting method has been getting guys who are center capable.  It has built a lot of center wealth that will be on the team in the next year.  We come far from the times you are alluding to. It seems we've almost hurt ourselves with true wing players.  We have a handful but not a rosters worth.  We have to decide who plays wing to get them some time there to develop and learn responsibilities.

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

Why would we skate Necas game after game; move him from center to wing back to center and back to wing again If we aren't at least considering keeping him in Raleigh?

 

 

Maybe he's earned that real hard look and is making it hard for them to make a decision, but they still have until the end of camp to make the ultimate decision.  They also may see a player that is close, and they want as much time as they can get to work with him now, in order to benefit later.  An extra week or two with the big boys may be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Back to my recliner to ruminate on BMI and shoe size.

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

It seems our drafting method has been getting guys who are center capable.  It has built a lot of center wealth that will be on the team in the next year.  We come far from the times you are alluding to. It seems we've almost hurt ourselves with true wing players.  We have a handful but not a rosters worth.  We have to decide who plays wing to get them some time there to develop and learn responsibilities.

I agree, but I think more generally, the biggest difference between today's game and that of even 10 years ago is that forwards tend to be more versatile and adaptable. Any of Rask, Ryan, Lindholm Aho and Skinner could easily play wing or C. Justin and JWilly not so much. I think the big reason is the increased speed of the game. Guys trade positional responsibility so many times in even one shift these days that switching from wing to C merely means learning how to take faceoffs (a practice which, now that we've finally got guys who are good on draws, of course the league has opted to turn on its head).

 

I think the secondary but almost-as-important reason (in terms of players the ease with which guys comprehend their responsibilities in various situations) is the younger ages at which guys break in. New tricks are no big deal for young dogs.  

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1 hour ago, super_dave_1 said:

Back to my recliner to ruminate on BMI and shoe size.

Apparently the memo missed you. We're now including toe-in/toe-out (in degrees) of the player's feet, when standing in the "at ease" position--on a digital scale. Analog readings are suspect.

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

someone has to play on the wing.  Why not try him out and see if it is better fit for him?  It could be the only way he makes the team next season, if not this one.

 

Exactly what I'm thinking. I guess I'm thinking we are looking or at least considering at putting him on the fast track.

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I agree the game has changed over the past 10 years and more.  Teams have become so rigidly locked into playing 'the system' it has taken away from individual creativity that used to be a hallmark of the NHL via the Orr's, Hull's, Lafleur's and the like. God forbid in today's game a player make an end-to-end rush or rag the puck like Orr used to on a PK. That type of creativity would get you benched nowadays. System hockey creates a better overall team but as fans we lose out on many of the superb individual skills alot of these guys have that would make the game more electric. I'm not a fan of parity that system hockey has spawned.

Edited by raleighcaniac

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8 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

God forbid in today's game a player make an end-to-end rush or rag the puck like Orr used to on a PK.

I'm sure you mean Clarke :)

 

But yeah, I was stunned when the Oil stole the puck our PP the other night inside our zone, and then sent it back to the D for a clear. The only time even that much happens these days is to buy time for a line change. 

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Can thank Lou Lamerillo in NJ for deploying the most boring system in hockey, the left wing lock using one forchecker to force the play to one side of the net and using the next forward to to take away away the short outlet pass and lining up your other forward abreast of your 2 D near the center line to take away the neutral zone. Surprised they had ticket sales in NJ with that garbage (that also produced Stanley Cups - unfortunately). Lou proved system hockey made a better overall team even if they had average talent.  Too bad. With guys like TT, Aho, Skinner etc in a pretty fast lineup would be fun to watch some some occasional individuality.

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2 hours ago, legend-1 said:

RF on a number of occasions has blamed Lindholm's slow growth to being thrown into the league too early and I feel like those comments aren't even a year old yet. Then to turn around and risk doing the same thing with Necas? That's a helluva fine line between genius and idiot depending on which way the seesaw falls.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but Lindholm was thrown into the fire because the team needed him to be.  If Necas is on the team its because he earned it.

 

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11 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

Can thank Lou Lamerillo in NJ for deploying the most boring system in hockey, the left wing lock using one forchecker to force the play to one side of the net and using the next forward to to take away away the short outlet pass and lining up your other forward abreast of your 2 D near the center line to take away the neutral zone. Surprised they had ticket sales in NJ with that garbage (that also produced Stanley Cups - unfortunately). Lou proved system hockey made a better overall team even if they had average talent.  Too bad. With guys like TT, Aho, Skinner etc in a pretty fast lineup would be fun to watch some some occasional individuality.

Have you ever been to NJ? In a land where Taylor Pork Roll is about as exciting as it gets and your hockey team is the only pro team that will take the state's name, the trap is almost sensory overload.

 

The nice thing about playing this quickly is that it opens things up offensively. Chuck might hate the home run pass, but when it works it's a beautiful thing. I think with this team's speed, we'll be seeing more of it, and more plays like the first one in this clip:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Have you ever been to NJ? In a land where Taylor Pork Roll is about as exciting as it gets and your hockey team is the only pro team that will take the state's name, the trap is almost sensory overload.

They also know how to make pizza and amazing subs. That's about where it stops.

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21 minutes ago, JCLA said:

Yeah but Lindholm was thrown into the fire because the team needed him to be.  If Necas is on the team its because he earned it.

 

An 18 year old Lindholm would be just as in the mix to join this team as Necas is and runs all the same risks. If RF's wrong he doesn't have JR to blame this time. 

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6 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

An 18 year old Lindholm would be just as in the mix to join this team as Necas is and runs all the same risks. If RF's wrong he doesn't have JR to blame this time. 

 

That's irrelevant because the lindholm rookie season team and the necas rookie season teams are two completely different teams.

 

If we replace Lindholm with Necas as rookies, and the team is in the same position, Lindholm would have to earn the right to be on the team.  

 

We needed offense when lindholm was a rookie so we didn't really have a choice but to play him.  We don't need Necas on this team, so if he makes it, its' because he is actually good enough and ready to be on the team.

 

All that said, I don't think I want him on the team this year but I wouldn't hate it either.

Edited by JCLA

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I sure hope so.

 

I greatly favor sending him to the AHL, and have to think the brain trust would much prefer to monitor his progress across a state versus an ocean, if he'll agree. I think they're trying in part to give him enough ice time to encourage him to say yes. If he hits a wall in the A due to travel or the added games or the physicality, loaning him back to his CZ team to let him finish the year--OR, if he adapts his game, AND to the very different version of hockey in North America--yes, absolutely, a later call-up.

 

Others have differed with me on the likelihood of this scenario playing out, but to my mind, it's one of the greatest benefits of scouting in Europe. If you find a kid like this, you have far greater flexibility in how and where to develop him, at a younger age, than you do under the NHL's agreement with the Canadian Junior Hockey system. Why not put that advantage to work?

My 2 cents. Necas didn't exactly blow away the cz league with offensive numbers that were mind boggling. It is clear that his game is progressing nicely with the long look that he is getting. His biggest asset in Peters mind is his explosive speed and clearing the zone quickly to set up quick scoring chances. I believe part of the long look is also due to the Stemper situation which is being kept very quiet. Peters audio stated that if you are going to make this team you need to be versatile hence the look at Necas at center and the wing. Necas speed is a step above Stemper and some of the other young contenders looking for a spot. Peters loves speed period.  If the kid is this good in the eyes of the organization I prefer the AHL as a home if he doesn't stick now. The AHL is a step above the CZ league, why send him backwards in his development? He would see the travel scenario, the length of a full season and the smaller ice for a full season. Yes he is only 18 but if the organization is so big  on him now perhaps he is ready to put on the big boy pants. There has been concern from some on his size but as someone stated you can't hit what you can't catch.  If he isn't totally ready please send him to the Checkers. I'd love to see him on a line with Tolchinsky.....speed deamons.

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1 hour ago, JCLA said:

 

That's irrelevant because the lindholm rookie season team and the necas rookie season teams are two completely different teams.

 

If we replace Lindholm with Necas as rookies, and the team is in the same position, Lindholm would have to earn the right to be on the team.  

 

We needed offense when lindholm was a rookie so we didn't really have a choice but to play him.  We don't need Necas on this team, so if he makes it, its' because he is actually good enough and ready to be on the team.

 

All that said, I don't think I want him on the team this year but I wouldn't hate it either.

He may have the skills to play this year but is it smart? I'm guessing based on your final line you're not sure if it's smart either. I'm saying RF has showed his hand in knowing it's not smart to rush an 18 year old and is setting himself up to be a hypocrite if he's wrong or a genius if he's right.

 

We both know how good Lindholm looked in his rookie camp and I think the same player would be kicking down the door to join this team as well but it still wouldn't be smart. Necas's frame to me would be concerning vs a team like the Flyers who were headhunting vets nevermind unsuspecting rookies. 

 

Edited by legend-1

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2 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

 I'm not a fan of parity that system hockey has spawned.

 

The salary cap has more to do with the parity in today's game than any system crushing individual creativity.  The best players are still the best players.

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Salary cap is a part of parity but system hockey will allow a team like LV to be a decent program in their first year without having best players or highest payroll. The Canes in the last few non playoff years had (have?) the lowest payroll in the league by quite a bit yet they competed the majority of nights due to system hockey.

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4 hours ago, legend-1 said:

 

They also know how to make pizza and amazing subs. That's about where it stops.

You left out bagels

Hard rolls (what you put your Taylor ham and egg on for breakfast)

 

 

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Oh no.  The last time we went here, there were all kinds of pictures of "Pork Roll" posted.  Kind of made me want to heave.

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