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In Season 2017-18 Talk

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1 minute ago, OBXer said:

Question for Canes fans: if you're Tom Dundon what's your next move?

 

Hire a GM

1 minute ago, OBXer said:

Second question for Canes fans: in any potential offseason trades, what players should be considered "untouchables" and not a part of any deals.

 

I have three

Aho

Slavin

Staal

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21 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

3-6 rookies? The perpetual rebuild continues. 

do we hold them back then?  Zykov, Foegele, and McKeown have earned their shot.  

 

Wallmark and Kuok have already been considered for a full time slot.  If Kuok was one year older we may have seen a lot more this season.  We didnt want to lose his slide.  

Then there is the hottest name in prospect land, Necas. What do we do?  We kill ourselves over the next 2 years if we go get a bunch of expensive dudes and dont have the ELCs to balance them out.

Edited by gocanes0506

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16 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

do we hold them back then? 

 

No, if we can't use them we trade them for a more veteran (but younger) players from a winning system. We are full of 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players. A winning system can blend maybe one or two rookies into a veteran system. A rebuilding team can practice on the job training. A team that should be at the end of a rebuild needs to identify the needs and go get them. Some eventual very good players will be traded away to meet the needs but as long as you can keep adding to the cupboard and bring in veterans for the big club those prospects in Charlotte are for the most part assets, chips to be cashed in

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I agree with Top on his goalie point, and made it in another thread, but it bears repeating. This group, with its void at 1C and it's  -107 defensive gaff-machine co-captain firmly in place, somehow has a decidedly winning record with the #42 best goalie in the league in net. This is staggering. If you project Cam's record which is at best an average back up save percentage, onto the year, this team is 43-29-10 and at 96 points, in the playoffs. That with the #42 goalie.

 

If we can somehow, some way, add an at least respectable 1C and get the goalie position to average (and IMO jettison Faulk at least). We are on our way.

 

This was the need offseason. This has been the need for a good while now. And GMRF failed to do it, over and over.

 

Can you really overpay for the right players? Are we two players away from being a powerhouse? Probably not, but we are two players away from being a solid playoff team. But they have to be the right players. A 1C, even a marginal 1C, pushes Jordan to 2C and probably Lindholm to 3C. It also produces maybe 40 more goals. Remember this very team with it's gaping hole on the right side of the D, and the #42 goalie, had a winning record. Remove that hole, get average goaltending, and add 40 goals with a guy who makes people around him better? Good.

 

And there is talent in the system. It's hard to see some of it, because rookie AHL seasons are not always great, and the best, Necas is over in Europe. But it is there if we can get to it.

 

I would empty the tank going after a 1C and a 1G. Picks, non Necas prospects, Faulk, even Hanifin if needed to fill those spots. Hockey trades most likely. Sure, J Tavares is coming, all is well (sarcasm). But maybe JVR wants to play with his brother? But mainly do the thing Francis would not: make a hockey trade or two.

 

1. Fix goalie

2. Find a 1C at just about any cost.

3. Move Faulk out of here once and for all.

4. Move Rask, Ryan, PDG, Kruger, Nordstrom out.

5. Sign at least one decent UFA if possible.

6. Create a prospect 4th line* that can move up if other lines are not producing: Wallmark, Foegele, Zykov or Kuokannen

 

*last because it's my idea and may be nuts, but I like it. You don't want prospects in the wrong roles? I agree, but my idea would move these guys up and down the line up individually or as a group when other guys fall off. Accountability. You don't want to go to the net? OK, Foegele will. I don't get the point in having professional lesser 4th line players. It hasn't worked in 9 years here. It just creates an ice time safety net for the top 9. No matter how they play, surely Nordstrom isn't taking their place.

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34 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

do we hold them back then?  Zykov, Foegele, and McKeown have earned their shot.  

 

Wallmark and Kuok have already been considered for a full time slot.  If Kuok was one year older we may have seen a lot more this season.  We didnt want to lose his slide.  

Then there is the hottest name in prospect land, Necas. What do we do?  We kill ourselves over the next 2 years if we go get a bunch of expensive dudes and dont have the ELCs to balance them out.

I think we need some proven guys that can play. We had a good mix when we won the Cup. Guys like Stillman, Whitney, Cullen, Cole, Brindy the entire defense, none were super stars, but they all were very solid players. We need some players like that to show these kids the right way to play. The only guys I see filling that role are Staal and Williams.

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while i would like to agree with trading them away to get more experience players now, two considerations:

 

1 we got into this mess because we refused to play guys this year, we brought in veterans that didnt do very well.  Didnt even bring up young guys when the vets struggled.

2. We have to re-sign Hanifin and Lindholm.  Potentially extend Aho this season as well.  

  Best case scenario

Trade Rask, Faulk, and eat 50% of Darling while trading him to be a backup somewhere.  Savings: 11 million

Sign Hanifin to a 2 year bridge deal of 3 to 3.5 mil per

Sign lindholm to a 3 year deal increasing .5 mil per year starting at 3. AAV 3.5.

Aho? 8 years 6 mil? 8 years 7 mil? Bridge deal for 2 years and 5 mil?  Used 6 mil. 

Get JVR at 6 x 6

Re-sign TVR to a 2 yr 1.5 per deal

21.5 million or a +10 million from where we are (I am counting Aho's full salary because you have to figure it as already used salary when considering the future).  We still need another scorer, 2 goalies, and a top 4 RHD.  

Another scorer- 4-7 million (depending how crazy we go) I used 5.5 towards the total

top 4 RHD- 4-6 mil (depending how crazy we go), I used 5 mil towards the total

Starting goalie (Raanta at 4-4.5 mil a year if we are lucky)

Backup 1-2 million

another +15.5 million.  We are up against the cap with about 4 million in space

Team

JVR-Aho-Williams (16.5 mil)

Turbo-Staal-New guy (14.3)

Skins-Lindholm-Zykov (10.5)

McGinn-Wallmark-Foegele (~2.25 mil)

Kruger (3 mi)

 

Slavin-Pesce (9.3)

Hanifin-New guy (8.5)

Fleury-TVR (2.3)

7th ?

 

Raanta 4.5

Backup 1.5

 

Cap hits

Darling 2.075

HWSNBM 2.333

 

Total 78 million (maybe save 1.5 million more if someone will take Kruger).  That is with playing 3 rookies next year and getting the roster up to respectable standards.

Leaves us about 3 million space with no 7th defender.  If Kruger goes, you can replace most of the 1.5 million savings to Nordy.  

 

3 million to couple with Skins and Williams' salaries coming off and saving a little money with Ned coming up for the next offseason.   13 million to replace 2 top 6 wingers, re-sign turbo, and Fleury.  Money runs out quickly.  

 

Now we can argue about caliber of player and the contracts, if you want, but this shows why we have to play a bunch of rookies.  

Edited by gocanes0506

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16 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

If that is the case I would expect that we will miss the playoffs again next season.

If I can weigh in on this somber mood OBXer, like everyone else on here, as I exited PNC arena last pm, I was as low as at any point in the 18 years since I've been following this team, most as a STH. The 10 year myth of playoff season or shortly to be, coupled with the Aftermath dude, whose radio personna drives me up a wall almost as much as  Adam Gold's high pitched drivel nearly sent me over the edge. Then John Forslund comes on, shortly followed by Justin Williams who sounded on the verge of tears. Not a good night. 

 

Something about which I've wondered.for several years now, we have constantly been regaled with "hope" based on our pipeline, i.e. our AHLers? My question regarding this, is this an honest assessment, or more homerism hype?? I ask because it's easy for me at least to be naive enough to be sucked into this positive spin that surrounds this and possible ALL teams, but if some of those guys are as good as advertised, then is there reason for hope?

 

As to the constant Francophile media dominated crap, as with the opposition's fans in our barn, these will only cease when we start winning, trivial as that seems. The depressing thing, as so many have observed, is that we've got a "broken" team. I'm right there with many of you, who want to just pull the covers up over my head and wish the rest of the season away, so I suggest that this fan base once again SHOCK the NHL fraternity, much like standing throughout the entire 7th game did so many years ago, and support these players come hell or high water. Guys, this is where things get difficult to be A FAN of this team. These guys, one and all I guarantee, are hurting as much or more than any of us, and if we ascribe as we say we do, to the adage that "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger", than we'll get behind this team and show them that we fans are behind them, win or lose!!!! 

 

And finally OBXer, as was the message of the movie GWTW, "Tomorrow is another Day". That's all I got.  

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14 minutes ago, remkin said:

I agree with Top on his goalie point, and made it in another thread, but it bears repeating. This group, with its void at 1C and it's  -107 defensive gaff-machine co-captain firmly in place, somehow has a decidedly winning record with the #42 best goalie in the league in net. This is staggering. If you project Cam's record which is at best an average back up save percentage, onto the year, this team is 43-29-10 and at 96 points, in the playoffs. That with the #42 goalie.

 

If we can somehow, some way, add an at least respectable 1C and get the goalie position to average (and IMO jettison Faulk at least). We are on our way.

 

This was the need offseason. This has been the need for a good while now. And GMRF failed to do it, over and over.

 

Can you really overpay for the right players? Are we two players away from being a powerhouse? Probably not, but we are two players away from being a solid playoff team. But they have to be the right players. A 1C, even a marginal 1C, pushes Jordan to 2C and probably Lindholm to 3C. It also produces maybe 40 more goals. Remember this very team with it's gaping hole on the right side of the D, and the #42 goalie, had a winning record. Remove that hole, get average goaltending, and add 40 goals with a guy who makes people around him better? Good.

 

And there is talent in the system. It's hard to see some of it, because rookie AHL seasons are not always great, and the best, Necas is over in Europe. But it is there if we can get to it.

 

I would empty the tank going after a 1C and a 1G. Picks, non Necas prospects, Faulk, even Hanifin if needed to fill those spots. Hockey trades most likely. Sure, J Tavares is coming, all is well (sarcasm). But maybe JVR wants to play with his brother? But mainly do the thing Francis would not: make a hockey trade or two.

 

1. Fix goalie

2. Find a 1C at just about any cost.

3. Move Faulk out of here once and for all.

4. Move Rask, Ryan, PDG, Kruger, Nordstrom out.

5. Sign at least one decent UFA if possible.

6. Create a prospect 4th line* that can move up if other lines are not producing: Wallmark, Foegele, Zykov or Kuokannen

 

*last because it's my idea and may be nuts, but I like it. You don't want prospects in the wrong roles? I agree, but my idea would move these guys up and down the line up individually or as a group when other guys fall off. Accountability. You don't want to go to the net? OK, Foegele will. I don't get the point in having professional lesser 4th line players. It hasn't worked in 9 years here. It just creates an ice time safety net for the top 9. No matter how they play, surely Nordstrom isn't taking their place.

 

I completely agree with all of this except I would keep Nordstrom and move Skinner.  Nordstrom is great on the PK, will finish his checks, and provides much needed energy......if he could just start chipping in 8-10 goals he would be the ideal 4th liner.  He knows his role, and embraces it.  I am not a Skinner fan.  Too often he is disengaged, my eyeball test tells me he loses far more board battles than he wins, he has no grit to his game, and I just can't get past the -28.  Time to move on.

 

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I remember the old days when Whitney used to come in the picture when Tripp was doing his bench interview. This team hasn't had fun in a long time. It hasn't been fun to watch this team for a long time. I  hope last night was the low point. It sure feel like it to me.

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14 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Something about which I've wondered.for several years now, we have constantly been regaled with "hope" based on our pipeline, i.e. our AHLers? My question regarding this, is this an honest assessment, or more homerism hype?? I ask because it's easy for me at least to be naive enough to be sucked into this positive spin that surrounds this and possible ALL teams, but if some of those guys are as good as advertised, then is there reason for hope?

 

As to the constant Francophile media dominated crap, as with the opposition's fans in our barn, these will only cease when we start winning, trivial as that seems. The depressing thing, as so many have observed, is that we've got a "broken" team.

 

Hope: who knows?  RF and now "interim team" won't let them up.  I suspect the pipeline is not as full as advertised.

 

Broken team: I'm fearing a death spiral.  Per the other thread, not sure it will be easy to woo UFAs or top talent management.

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Kjun, this team does have hope in the system. There is even hope with young players still on the upswing on the NHL ice.

 

It is very hard to project players from Junior hockey or Europe, even if they are pretty elite. A lot of very good players struggle when they first hit the AHL.

 

The best:

 

Necas has elite potential. He can make plays at high speed and he plays an elite speed game. Additionally he has been a pretty good two way player. He may end up being our best forward in a few years. He could be the 1C eventually.

 

Kuokannen looked nearly NHL ready in pre season. He is a bit Aho lite. He is smart and makes very good passes. He started slow but has been coming on in Charlotte.

 

Foegele. Despite being a year overaged for a rookie, he is still a rookie.  Foegele has dominated in the AHL from the first drop of the puck. He is not a speed demon, but he is a very skilled, gritty player that this team could use. I think he's a McGinn sort of player, but more offensive upside. He leads the AHL in goals for a rookie and is just off the lead overall.

 

Wallmark. This guy should have centered our 4th line this year IMO. He has produced big time in the AHL for two years, but only gets a sniff. He has not looked like a star up here, but such a small n value.

 

Zykov. Lots of AHL goals. Goes to net.

 

McKeown. RHD. Plus 31. 21 points.

 

Carrick: LHD. 33 points. Could step in if Hanifin or Fleury get traded.

 

Then there are guys in their rookie AHL season, or in Juniors that still have upside:

 

Gauthier. Just too many goals in junior hockey to give up on. Has struggled with pro game, but could still emerge.

Roy. See Gauthier.

Bean. Pretty high pick.

 

And there are others.

 

I'd argue that Aho, Teuravanen, and even Lindholm have more upside. Also, Hanifin has elite skill and is still very young for a D man if he can eliminate the bad habits could be elite. Fleury is finishing his rookie season, still too early to judge, a lot of good there too.

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12 minutes ago, reelpirate5 said:

 

I completely agree with all of this except I would keep Nordstrom and move Skinner.  Nordstrom is great on the PK, will finish his checks, and provides much needed energy......if he could just start chipping in 8-10 goals he would be the ideal 4th liner.  He knows his role, and embraces it.  I am not a Skinner fan.  Too often he is disengaged, my eyeball test tells me he loses far more board battles than he wins, he has no grit to his game, and I just can't get past the -28.  Time to move on.

 

I've always liked Nordstrom. He's a gritty player and a smart one. I just think we need even the bottom guys to score a little. I don't have a big heartache with keeping him, but just want to see other guys up. I'd only move Skinner if we could get a more traditional top 6 forward back.

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Question for Canes fans: if you're Tom Dundon what's your next move?

Hire a GM who isn't afraid to make the hard decisions!

Second question for Canes fans: in any potential offseason trades, what players should be considered "untouchables" and not a part of any deals.

Staal, Aho, Teuvo, Slavin, Pesce.

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6 minutes ago, remkin said:

I've always liked Nordstrom. He's a gritty player and a smart one. I just think we need even the bottom guys to score a little. I don't have a big heartache with keeping him, but just want to see other guys up. I'd only move Skinner if we could get a more traditional top 6 forward back.

 

Nordstrom had decent numbers when he was centered by Staal (2015-16; 10g, 14a, 24pts, +1), so given a solid center and winger, he could put up similar numbers as a 4th liner.

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1 hour ago, KJUNKANE said:

And finally OBXer, as was the message of the movie GWTW, "Tomorrow is another Day". That's all I got. 

 

I'm a Hurricane fan, tomorrow I will be a Hurricane fan but last night was the absolute bottom for me. I pray to the hockey gods it was the absolute bottom. Pointing fingers at one player won't solve this, pinning hopes on rookies alone won't solve this. Trying to find the silver lining in this dark cloud won't solve this. If I have any anger it is toward PK who nearly destroyed this team for the sake of the sale. I'm done with patience, I'm done with hoping by calling up the youth in large numbers we will solve this teams woes, I'm done with making excuses for players that can't skate the system, I'm done with a coach that can't get the best from his players and stubbornly sticks to a system they can't skate. We don't have time for another 3 or 5 year rebuild of promising talent. I will be a fan, I will hope and cheer for the best the team can be but I'm done with making excuses.

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6 hours ago, legend-1 said:

We can bring in another goalie but I think we'll ruin them.

 

I've begun wondering what the effect of no elite level talent takes on the goalies. These top dog teams that are either built on chemistry or top end talent those goalies get to face this talent every single day in practice. If I'm a Canes goalie I assume their having great practices because it's the Canes in front of them but then they both go out and get burned glove hand as if they've never seen a 90+ mph wrister before. I swear it's looks like an MLB batter whose pitchers only throw them changeups everyday in practice going out to bat in the real game.

 

Grasping at straws I get it but how do you screw up THIS MANY GOALIES. It's beyond Lack at this point it's beyond Peters.

There is absolutely an issue in the org with goalie coaching or development or something. I would love to know how many times Aho and TT score on either of our keepers in any given practice, compared even to undeniably skilled (versus sharp) shooters like Willy and Skinner. It can't be pretty.

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33 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

I'm a Hurricane fan, tomorrow I will be a Hurricane fan but last night was the absolute bottom for me. I pray to the hockey gods it was the absolute bottom. Pointing fingers at one player won't solve this, pinning hopes on rookies alone won't solve this. Trying to find the silver lining in this dark cloud won't solve this. If I have any anger it is toward PK who nearly destroyed this team for the sake of the sale. I'm done with patience, I'm done with hoping by calling up the youth in large numbers we will solve this teams woes, I'm done with making excuses for players that can't skate the system, I'm done with a coach that can't get the best from his players and stubbornly sticks to a system they can't skate. We don't have time for another 3 or 5 year rebuild of promising talent. I will be a fan, I will hope and cheer for the best the team can be but I'm done with making excuses.

My blame goes towards JR more so than PK...it was his contract stupidity that got PK into the low-ball mentality that has screwed us since 2013.

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On 3/13/2018 at 10:30 AM, slapshot02 said:

Nothing should be off the table for TD. I'm all in if it improves the product on the ice. Stormy has had a sub par year as well, might be time for a new mascot.  Related imageImage result for hurricane superhero

 

The funny thing about this is we do have an additional new mascot but how would anyone know except a bunch of Boston fans, Jersey fans and me?

 

 

(Found a link)

Check out @NHLCanes’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/NHLCanes/status/969758424002125824?s=09

Edited by hag65

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4 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

My blame goes towards JR more so than PK.

 

For me, only me as I understand your view. It was PK. He was the one constant. JR has proven he could build a SC team here and in Pens land. Now the two are different circumstances but he has done it. JR strikes me as a GM that never made a deal he didn't think he could trade his way out of except of course that Russian winger we don't talk about. That takes commitment and money from an owner. PK never struck me as an owner that cared more about the team than the ultimate sale. If it was him that left the Canes a guarantee to stay in Raleigh I say thanks but if you had paid more attention to us there never would of been a question where we belong.

 

Anyway both PK and JR are gone, well PK sort of and here we are, here we are! So I don't care whose fault it was I only care about what we are going to do about it. Big Tom put that money up. Talk is cheap and I have had enough talk.

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2 hours ago, remkin said:

 

 

*last because it's my idea and may be nuts, but I like it. You don't want prospects in the wrong roles? I agree, but my idea would move these guys up and down the line up individually or as a group when other guys fall off. Accountability. You don't want to go to the net? OK, Foegele will. I don't get the point in having professional lesser 4th line players. It hasn't worked in 9 years here. It just creates an ice time safety net for the top 9. No matter how they play, surely Nordstrom isn't taking their place.

 

 

Thats how many teams do it.  The problem with the line blender is you have no hierarchy for accountability.  

 

Within a team... its good to know that making the first line is always possible if you work your way up and outplay your counterparts.

 

They talk about it on XM about other teams all the time.... "he was promoted to the 2nd line"   "he got demoted to the third line"

 

That is accountability.  Knowing you can literally play your way to Charlotte if your teammates outplay you and vice versa.  Not only can you come up from Charlotte... outplay Faulk and take his slot.  Thats what should have happened... not us whining he is -100 to no avail.

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15 minutes ago, hag65 said:

....Not only can you come up from Charlotte... outplay Faulk and take his slot.  Thats what should have happened... not us whining he is -100 to no avail.

Who knew, including Canes Management, that Slavin's and Pesce's game would translate into the NHL?  They arrived, performed and stuck, despite expectations.

 

You have to find out if they can play.  See Boychuck.  I'm with you Hag, start the shuttle.

 

*btw, I actually saw someone at last nights game with a "Boychuck" jersey with good old #11.

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22 hours ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

 

He also said he wouldn't mortgage the future for a guy with a couple years left on his contract.  That comment was made after a series of rumors out about Matt Duchene/Carolina Hurricanes rumors.  Colorado's beat writer repeatedly said for months that Carolina was likely Duchene's destination if they would give up the parts.  I know you disagree on Duchene in general, my point was I feel confident that that was a deal to be had, and he just didn't want to make it.  But as other posters have mentioned, names like Duchene, Drouin, Panarin, Marleau, Hall, Brassard, to name a few, have been moved in our conference.  So the excuse of we don't know what deals were out there is null and void.

Oh, I agree deals were out there. What we don't know is what he was being asked to give up. In the end, though, you and and I are in complete agreement on this: his near-total inaction when it came to moving roster players for other roster players was unacceptable. 

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